1964 230SL restoration in UK

[kampala]

Scott,

Your attention to detail is very interesting to follow.  Amazing work.   

Here's a "loaded" question for you - do you go to these lengths of extreme detail on the corvettes you restore?

Some of us really enjoy your updates and look forward to the next episodes.   

Best,

[Scottcorvette]

Well that is a loaded question....Yes and no!

I think we have pretty high standards but I also have to keep the majority of work we do to a reasonably commercial level. I think we are perceived as being a bit more expensive than some of the other Corvette places out there but Ive seen what they do and it really is shocking. We had a car in from one of my competitors that had had a transmission swap and they used a couple of bits of desk leg as spacers, they had used a Dremel to make the holes and they look appalling, on another car they made a brake line too long and put an 'S' shaped bend in it to take the length away - nice!

I would be horrified if someone had done that sort of thing at my place.

Heres a couple of pictures of some of our recent jobs, en engine and chassis overhaul in a 66 roadster and a carpet set and  instrument cluster refurb in a 64, just the main gauges though, not the clock or radio, and the dash top has a crack in it, theres your compromise...

My standard rule is that if the car we are working on went straight to another garage I wouldn't want anybody to be able to pick fault with what we had done. I have gone deeper into this one than normal though, partly because I want to make this car as nice as I possibly can and I don't have to justify the bill to anyone, and partly because it needed it. I get a kick out of it too.

[Shvegel]

What's with the HEI distributor?  That didn't come out until 75?  Just kidding.   Really a great system until a plug wire went bad and the spark would find a new way home.

[neelyrc]

My standard rule is that if the car we are working on went straight to another garage I wouldn't want anybody to be able to pick fault with what we had done.

Scott-
Great policy and very nice work.  You will be in business for a very long time with this combination.

[Howard Long]

Great work Scott,  A little different than the sheet metal problems that we have been dealing with on our Pagodas.

As an old hot rodder, I have fantasies of a nice Chevy engine in my Pagoda but my classic side says "No".  I realize all the suspension changes that would be required and no matter how good a job I did on the mod, it would probably decrease the total value of the Pagoda at the market place.

I was running Dragsters with SEMA Hall of Fame member, Nile Cornelison, from 1958 up to about 1963 and he held the top speed record in the quarter mile of about 212 mph for a time in 63or 64, only lasted a few weeks.

Howard
280SL 4 Speed

[kampala]

scott,

I really should have realized how "loaded" the question was.  My apologies.   

Thanks for the detailed response. Very nice work.  I have always loved the '63-'67 vettes, but don't have the space, spare cash nor time, so will just keep admiring them.

Best,

[Scottcorvette]

No apology necessary, its a fair question. To be honest I hadn't really given it a lot of thought up until now but since you asked Ive been looking at what we do throughout the week and I'm pretty impressed!!!

Shvegel, that engine in the 66 had been hopped up a bit with a set of Edelbrock aluminium heads and inlet, performer cam and a Holley carb, the standard points distributor doesn't handle that combination very well and the GM HEI distributor is about one of the finest out there for our application. The one in that car is a cheap knockoff of an HEI but it has a tach drive modification which we need for the early cars. In that one we upgraded the internals with a Pertronix kit. That car also got a Tremec 5 speed and was an absolute blast to drive.

Howard as a hot rodder you might like this, my Dad and I started this project before he died, and my wife Ronni and I carried on with it after. We did everything from scratch and it was a tough build but the car was stunning at the end, not mine, was built for a customer, one of the very few no holds barred ones!

[Scottcorvette]

But back to the business in hand. I do believe the floor/rocker/sill area is complete.....Maybe something will rear its head over the next few months/years but Im signing this one off for the moment. Tomorrow I start on the trunk floor, I think I have a plan.....

It is very nice to bring this part of the rebuild to a close though, don't know about you, but I'm sick of floorpans.....

[Scottcorvette]

I have spent a bit of time pondering the best way to deal with the rust in the boot area. As is typical of this car the rust is only marginal, but enough to be a problem. Of course being an early car with the vertical tyre well, a replacement panel is not available. I did get a later replacement floor from Mercedes but there are quite a few differences between the early and late versions.

I briefly decreed that life was too short to worry about this and thought about replacing the lot with the later floor and have a horizontal spare, but that was only a fleeting thought. I then thought about trying to make the later floor look like an early one but that is also easier said than done. However both of those options are still on the table if plan A doesn't work out....

As you can see from these pictures my problems are solely in the ribbed channels. I had a Pontiac GTO that had a little bit of rust in the boot floor and used an epoxy product on that with some success, but that was more pitted than rusted so it suited the application better.

Anyway I decided a more time consuming and laborious method was required here.....

[Scottcorvette]

So after a bit of head scratching we decided the best plan was to leave in as much of the existing floor as possible and use just enough of the new panel to fix the rust. Fortunately there are only a few minor differences between the old na new where the rust is, and I can deal with all but one of them so to all but the absolute expert eye it should be indistinguishable from the real thing, in theory of course.

The plan is to join the L shaped repair piece along the top of the front crossmember just ahead of the original spot welds but using the crossmember flange to hide the join from underneath, the sound deadener will also hide the join along its length for the most part.

I spent most of yesterday drilling out spot welds and cleaning up what was left. Two of the flanges on the spare tire carrier were badly pitted so I have cut those off and will make new ones. There is a bit of pitting in the bottom of the tire well that will need repair but I will cross that bridge when it comes, I may use the epoxy on that as it is only very minor. I am thinking about trying my hand at lead loading and that may work well there, although I suspect modern body filler is actually as good now.

I got home last night wondering if I am tackling this in the right way but I can't think of another option that will give me the result I want. I guess it looks a bit clunky but it seems a shame to cut out a perfectly good and original floor and then replace it with something that isn't right.

[Scottcorvette]

I had planned on fitting the smaller RH section before I tackled the centre section but realised that would trap the tail light inner panel which I am probably going to replace so I figured Id leave that out. It did need some modifying though.

The Mercedes replacement piece is for the later car also that has the spare tyre mounting point, I had already cut these off, but the replacement only had two little tabs for the trunk side board instead of three, so I cut one off the original floor and pressed 'The Chief' into action to spot weld it to the panel, what a pleasure it is to clamp and weld in one movement!

I also marked and drilled the three holes for the exhaust heat shield. On my original these have a pressed counterbore for the screws to sit in. I don't have a die for this so I drilled a countersink into a piece of wood and pressed a countersunk bolt through and into it. This worked pretty well but it has made the hole slightly larger than I would have liked although not large enough to be a problem.

Ronni brought me a sandwich yesterday and asked me what I was doing, she then said 'oh Ive got a countersink die.......' Fortunately it was too small anyway but it proves that you should always tell your wife what you're up to....

[Scottcorvette]

I don't want to jinx anything but so far the trunk floor repair seems to be going remarkably well. The first job was to try and make the new floor look like the old one. There were several differences, the two round dimples with the square holes needed to go. I thought I would need to cut the entire piece out and weld a disc in but I was able to dolly them flat and just weld in a small square to fill the hole. There was also an additional hole in the drain channel that needed filling in.

In the main drain channel there was an additional pressed out dimple with a hole in it that isn't there on my original. I thought I was going to leave this and just live with it but figured I may as well try and get it out. I cut of a section of nylon bar the same sort of diameter as the channel and started to tap it out, then welded and oval into the bottom to fill up the hole. It has come out pretty well and I think once in and given a final tidy will be invisible.

There were a couple of slots on the outside edge I had to fill in too, once they were done I set about marking out the shape of the replacement piece.

[Scottcorvette]

I made a cardboard template of the area in front of the spare wheel well and then transferred this on to the floor panel. As I suspected the cut line went straight across two of the reinforcement channels in the floor so they had to be cut out and a piece welded in. Once this was all done it was starting to look pretty good.

The last photo is the panel laid in place. It is a genuine Mercedes panel and the fit is superb, it pretty much dropped straight in. I was worried that the profiles where I want to join the old and new parts may be slightly different but as far as I can tell they are absolutely identical.

Could things be starting to go well for me on this car.......

I'm a bit concerned about the amount of welding there is to get this piece in but it is what it is, I'll take it slow. I am pretty hell bent on keeping this looking as factory as I can and until someone reproduces the trunk floor for an early 230SL I can't think of any way around it. Can you imagine how long it would take to make an accurate replacement, even if you had the skills and the machinery to do it.

[Scottcorvette]

I spent most of last Saturday cleaning and prepping the new panel to go in the trunk. I had a few guys in at work last Saturday so didn't get a full day at it. I sold my Mustang too which was unexpected. Ive had the car 5 years now and don't really use it so have been thinking about it for a while and the opportunity arose so what the hell...

This Saturday I started welding the trunk floor in, it has all gone pretty well so far but I ran out of gas so had to ditch half way through. I carried on tidying the welds and am quite pleased with how it is all going. I had already spot welded the brackets onto the underside of the floor before its final fit and am quite pleased with the way it is looking.

I finally got single sided spot welds figured out, I'd got some replacement electrodes for some of the pincer ends and they had a rounded end, I ground the single sided electrodes to a rounded end and got a better ground and the single sided spot welds worked perfectly. There were maybe half a dozen that I am going to have to plug weld and do again but I think that is because I had a bad earth, so that made the job go a bit easier and looks a lot more correct.

Would have been better if I could have gotten a complete replacement floor but I think it is going according to plan so far and is going to look pretty neat once it is all in.

[JamesL]

Funny
Was going to call you about the Mustang. Wife has suddenly taken quite a fancy for one and yours (Ronni's) was stunning. Am sure the 230 will be even better

How's the Fiat coming?

[Scottcorvette]

Ive got the Fiat advertised at the moment.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1972-Fiat-130-Coupe-Stunning-Original-Car-/142479946214?hash=item212c7771e6:g:a70AAOSwredZlKR3

The Mustang hasn't gone yet so as soon as it does it will ease my storage issues and the Fiat can come home, it is currently at work. Trouble is Im already thinking about a Mustang replacement.....

Its a sickness I tell you!

[Scottcorvette]

Excitement levels went up to 11 today as two batches of Mercedes parts arrived, first was one of the rear fenders , inner wing, and rear panel from Mercedes in Poole, along with a couple of rubber bushes and the clips for the door felts. The other side rear wing is on back order here and may be for some time so rather than hold up the project I am getting the other one from Tom at the classic centre, I was able to get the missing soft top plunger from him last month so he once again comes to the rescue...

I have been having trouble finding the correct conical washers for some of the fasteners and managed to get these from Mercedes also, at great expense....They are in are steel so will need to get them plated also. The new panels look very nice so I am pleased about that. I am not looking forward to changing the rear wings but I am sure we will prevail.

Second was a batch of miscellaneous bits and pieces from SLS, I haven't got that much from there but their service seems very good. I have been trying to get as much as possible from Mercedes to keep the car as genuine as I can and only getting the bits I can't get from them from other suppliers. I took Sticks advice from another post though and got aftermarket front coils....

Along with tail light housings, handbrake cables, soft top frame fasteners and lots of other odds and ends.

[Scottcorvette]

The other breaking news is that I have finally decided on a colour scheme.....Its only taken 3 years and 10 months and after all the back and forth I have decided to put it back to its original colours of 573G dark red and 114 natural interior and natural convertible top. Wheels and hardtop will match the body colour. Mine also had whitewall tyres originally so it is most likely that I will go that route again.

The only departure from stock is that I still think I am going to go with leather rather than MBTex. I got some samples some time ago and the MBTex has a very coarse grain which I don't like. There were two leather samples, one was 1068 Roser tan, and the other 249 bamboo. I am given to understand that the 1068 is the closest to the original 114 Natural colour, any thoughts? It has a finer grain than the bamboo which I think I prefer.

The MBTex sample I was sent is 704 bamboo which is quite a coarse grain. I think I read here somewhere that the early MBTex had a finer grain than the later? I don't know if and when I come to sell the car converting to leather would have any impact on the cars value or not but I think it might make the cockpit a nicer place to be. I am still going with the euro headlights and 5 speed conversion but they are both easily reversed.

so what do you think gang? Leather or vinyl???

[hkollan]

Hi Scott,

Good decision to go with the original colors. In my opinion it's a
great combo and looks stunning.
 During full restorations I've changed from Tex to leather when the Tex was worn out. Never regretted it. To get the best result it is important with leather to skive it when doing the dash pieces etc.

Love your work and reports.

Cheers,

Hans

[neelyrc]

Hi Scott, congrats on your selections. Great scheme! I think the darker body colours are more attractve and keeping to original is a plus for me.  I am also partial to leather but I have no experience with recent purchase and can't comment on which is closest to original.  I prefer the finer grain.

On the whitewalls I recommend the narrow stripe as in your posted pics as they are closest to the Phoenix originals supplied. The contrast with the dark body makes a striking look! 

I look forward to your progress reports and congratulate you on your quality work.

[Scottcorvette]

Thanks both. Ralph I think that dark olive colour of yours is really lovely and was one of the colours on my short list.

I think if I go for whitewalls I would most likely get a set of the Phoenix repros by Coker as that is what the car had originally:

https://www.cokertire.com/media/catalog/product/p/h/phoenix-185r14_2.png

Failing that a set of the correct Michelins MXV-P, these probably would be my preference but I think Id like to keep it on whitewall tyres, I think though if the ride and handling would be significantly better on the Michelins then I would forgo the whitewalls..

One of the deciding factors on colour was that I have seen a few cars lately on BAT or auction sites that have appealed, only fantasy shopping of course, but have then read that they have been repainted a different colour than original and it has really put me off them, I don't know why as it is something that never use to really bother me but now it does.

I kind of feel the same about the interior but I think the leather will look and feel so much nicer than the vinyl.

[Scottcorvette]

I carried on with the boot floor yesterday, it all went reasonably well and is almost finished. I have a couple of spot welds to do and I have to weld the side of the floor to the LH wheel well and weld the tabs back onto the spare wheel well but then it is done. It has taken a while to do though and much longer than I expected.

As I suspected though the long weld down the side was a bore, I took it very slow and just used little tacks all the way along. When I had the two pieces clamped together there was a natural dip in the metal so I used a piece of tube and a strip of aluminium to hold the panel flat whilst I welded it, seemed to work pretty well.

Even though I took it slow there was still a bit of a doowop along its length, I managed to dolly most of it out but have had to use a skim of filler to tidy it up after. One of the reasons I made the join in that dip was so that the join would be hidden thick underseal and the gas tank, and by the sound deadener strips glued on the trunk floor. I'd still like it not to be visible though!

On the whole Im pretty happy with the way it is going and am very pleased that I still have an original looking trunk floor.

[star63]

It has taken a while to do though and much longer than I expected.

This frase I have used quite often... 


Excellent work and very interesting to follow!

[neelyrc]

I think if I go for whitewalls I would most likely get a set of the Phoenix repros by Coker as that is what the car had originally:

Yes, the Cokers are about as close as you can get to the original white walls.  As my car is not for show, I went with the Maxxis whitewalls in 195 x 75 which are much easier on the pocketbook. 

I compared the dimensions with my original Firestone Phoenix spare here:

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=15847.msg184433#msg184433

With only a couple of hundred miles on them so far, I am well pleased.  In the next few days, to and from PUB (1300 miles), they will get a  good workout and I will have a lot better feel for them.


Your boot space is looking great!  Looking forward to your future reports.

[Scottcorvette]

Ive been reading about the Phoenix whitewalls and the reviews seem to be pretty mixed so I think I may go for the Michelins after all, still a long way off that though so Im not going to worry about it too much at this stage....

Busy day Saturday. My guy collected the Mustang. It's a bit strange watching another guy drive your car away, made a bit more stressful due to the fact it had been pouring down all day and the car has never seen the rain during my ownership, it is also painted white underneath which doesn't help....

But, I didn't use it and the few times I did I never really got the buzz that I get when I drive the Corvette so it is the right thing at the right time as far as Im concerned, I think...