Author Topic: 1964 230SL restoration in UK (Read 238401 times)

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #350 on:** September 22, 2016, 19:37:06 »

The new rocker arrived from MB yesterday and Ronni and I had a few hours on it this afternoon. The fit is much better and a much better start point so that is heartening. I was starting to feel very depressed about the whole thing....

You can see the difference in fit of the two in these pictures, they are both clamped in the same position, I had already fettled the original rocker a bit before I took these pictures, the first time I clamped it up the gap below the door was over an inch!

Anyway it didn't take much to get the new one to slot in nicely so I then stayed on and drilled some holes for plug welds where I won't be able to get 'The Chief' into position to do a pinch type spot weld. I'll grind them down after and use the single sided spot to do some dummy welds.

I am stripping the paint off a Corvette at the moment and I was planning to strip the black off the new rocker, what does everyone think? Good idea or not? I'm not sure what the black is, whether it is better to key it up and prime/topcoat over it or take it off and prime directly on to bare steel.

Anyway I feel a lot happier about things, back to where I should have been a week and another £400 ago...I'm putting this one down to experience, what I should have done was buy two new ones from MB so at least I would have had some comeback but I was too cheap and went the ebay route, now it's wound up costing me slightly more, learn from my experience boys and girls!

Having looked at the two side by side I think the original replacement rocker could be made to fit by squeezing the two parts together and re welding the jacking points in, I am too stressed/busy/lazy/not skilled enough to deal with it but if anyone wants it they can have it. It would be good for repair sections at the very least.

Andy was right, this is making me stronger.....

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #351 on:** October 05, 2016, 19:21:36 »

Managed to get a day on the Mercedes today and carried on with the right hand rocker. It all went pretty well, bit of jiggling around to get it all looking good. I had taken plenty of measurements before I cut the old one out and everything seemed to be checking out nicely.

I offered up the outer sill trim just to make sure everything lined up with that and it was all a-ok. In the second picture it looks out but when it is on the car it all looks perfect, the rearmost jack hole seemed to be shaped to suit the jacking point and the it sits nicely in the bottom of it.

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #352 on:** October 05, 2016, 19:23:02 »

And this is it pretty much welded in, all the spot welds are done and just need the rough edges taking off, I have some more plug welds to finish and then they will need to be ground down and dummy spot welds made.

So all in all I'm very pleased with the way it has all gone, especially with all the grief from the last attempt, and nice to see another major hurdle crossed.

Howard Long · « **Reply #353 on:** October 13, 2016, 03:27:31 »

Hi Scott,

I had the same experience fitting the side rails, it appears that you can never get all the places to line up at the same time. However, I just stayed at it and finally got to what I wanted. I did us a variety of clamps and straps to get it lined up. It did help that I had the body on a rotisserie, I could not imagine doing it with out.

I have a 1971 280SL that needed nearly every floor panel replaced and both side rails. I now have both side rails installed and the floor is complete on the drivers side. Some of my problems was that previous bad work on the floor made it impossible to know what is was supposed to be. I understand your frustration as I have quit several times but I keep going back. You may want to know that I am now over 2 years into this project. Here are a couple of photos.

Howard

JamesL · « **Reply #354 on:** October 13, 2016, 08:38:19 »

Keep at it chaps
Inspirational work for others and you'll really enjoy the end product

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #355 on:** October 15, 2016, 07:39:07 »

Howard it seems you and I are about level pegging with our projects, I've had mine 3 years next month but the first year was spasmodic on the car as I had other projects on the go, I've been busy with work this year so have had less time on the Mercedes.

The right side is not going as easy as the left for some reason....

James, the ride in your lovely car is still a great inspiration, I fear my completion date gets further and further away!

Howard Long · « **Reply #356 on:** October 17, 2016, 02:43:48 »

Dear Scott,

It is nice to talk to someone in about the same stage. I did the right side rail first and learned a lot to things that better prepared me for the left side. In my car the left side was a little better in that the bottom half of the left rear fender had been replaced at some time prior and the bottom of the left rear fender panel between the wheel well and the door was in pretty good shape with little rust. Also the the lower rear of the left front fender was in better shape to meet with the side rail. I did purchase the lower fender patch panel and used it replace the bottom 8 inches of the left fender but the rest of that area was mostly intact.

On the right side there was much rust in both of these locations with a lot of metal so rusted that it was really hard to reconstruct exactly how it was when it came from the factory. With what I learned from installation of the right side rail and rail cover, I found it a little easier to get the rail installed on the left side. I then finished all the floor panels for the left side. I tried several techniques to remove metal that was held with spot welds. I have found that using an angle grinder with a flap grinder wheel worked best for me. It takes more time but I end up with less damage to the material that I need to attach the new panels to.

I have the lower fender patch panel for the Right front fender yet to install. That is complicated because I have to create the small panel that supports the lower part of the front fender just in front of the door where the patch panel goes.

I wish that they made a similar patch panel for the right rear fender but all I found was the full rear fender or the lower half of the rear fender, both rather pricey I have decided that I will have to make the lower rear fender Patch. That plus a couple other pieces that I need to manufacture meant that I just "had" to purchase a Shrinker and a Stretcher. I will let you know how it comes out. That is my next task.

I have attached a 3 photos of where I am with the problems on the right side and one of the finished panels on the left side.

Howard
71 280SL 4-speed

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #357 on:** October 17, 2016, 06:19:18 »

The part I am fighting with now is the part of the chassis rail that meets up with the rocker at the rear, the repair piece doesn't seem to fit as well on this side as the other side, maybe I have cut it wrong, also the rear crossmember doesn't seem to want to go back the same, all my measurements check out around my door aperture for height and width, and I didn't disturb the upper part of the rocker so am pretty confident that all is as it should be there, but....

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and knowing what I know now I would not have bought this car. I think I'm just at the 'wish I'd never started' phase, I seem to go through that with all these projects, even the ones I'm getting paid for. I keep telling myself once the welding is done things will get better.

Bloody old cars.

andyburns · « **Reply #358 on:** October 17, 2016, 06:41:17 »

Lol. Seems your into the teenage daughter phase. Give it a few years and you will be proud as hell. I love your work. Keep it up.

Howard Long · « **Reply #359 on:** October 17, 2016, 12:25:31 »

Scott,

I meant to tell you one trick that worked. I found at some point on the rails where I did not have big enough clamps and Vice-Grips could not help, I had to resort to cargo straps with ratchet tighteners like you would use to hold cargo down on a trailer. With 2 or 3 straps at various angles I could get the rail to do the right thing. Then the rocker panel that screws on was a type of truth indicator that everything was ok.

Good Luck

Howard
71 280SL 4 speed

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #360 on:** October 24, 2016, 19:40:29 »

Thanks Fellas. Howard I had already tried the ratchet strap trick on first rocker that I tried to fit, the second one went on much easier. I've been struggling with the rear chassis rail repair section that goes from there under the rear seat area but not getting very far.

For my sanity I decided to take a break from that and on Saturday cut out the RH toe board where the metal was quite pitted, I cut the replacement to shape and tacked it in. I finished welding it in after work tonight. It looks alright, not as flawless as I would have liked. In my head I always imagine that these repairs are going to be absolutely invisible, sadly my imagination seems to exceed my ability.

Still it will all be OK, I will have to give the repair a light skim of filler and a coat of primer. I will need to re-bend the part that the floor sits against but I'll do that once the floor is laid in and then make a former to shape it against, at least that's the plan. Once again the spot welder has been a great asset and is certainly making the job easier. I got some new spot weld chisels the other day too and they are also a vast improvement over the ones I was using:

http://www.gunson.co.uk/product/77095

They were on sale too!

Howard Long · « **Reply #361 on:** October 25, 2016, 02:40:38 »

Dear Scott,

I think you are taking about the part that K & K labels as Patch Panel, Rear Rail. I found in doing the first one that I have removed too much of the old panel. which meant that I had removed some of the inner fender that going into that rear seat area. That really made it a big job to restore and I really did not need to remove that section, I only had rust in the lower part of that patch panel. for the second one, I only removed the lower half of the patch area where the rust was and it made it a lot easier. Sometimes less is more. I still have not gotten back to replacing the inner fender well on the first side, one of these days..

Hang in there, I am sure there are still rough things ahead. I just found additional rust in the area of the Reinforcement Strut, Top of the front wheelhouse on both sides. I could not see it but there was rust thru on the top of each strut. That certainly will be fun but I think that it can be done without removing the front fenders if I replace only the front 80 to 85% of each strut.

I am still working the lower 4 inches of the rear fender behind the right door, in front of the rear wheel well. I getting there but it sure is slow.

Good Luck

Howard
71 280SL 4-speed

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #362 on:** October 29, 2016, 19:32:16 »

Normal service has been resumed and once again Saturday is play day. I had a few other bits to do at work so didn't get a full day in, but had a nice time none the less.

I'm carrying on with the passenger side front floor pan, I used a piece of box section to straighten up the part of the new toe board that meets the floor, once I'd got that dealt with I measured the front part of the seat cross member and then cut that out. I'd got a repair piece from K&K but it is 1/2" deeper than the original, also the radius on the fold is a lot sharper than the original one, had mine been completely knackered then I'd have gone with it but it is only the lower section that is rusted so I'm using only what I need.

So everything is trimmed and ready to go in. 'The Chief' took care of spot weld duties, I gave all the flanges a couple of coats of weld thru primer so we are good to go. I ran out of time to weld the cross member and floor in otherwise it would have been a late one at work and I just didn't feel like it today, I had a Corona with my name on it and the Mexican GP qualifying to watch.....

I'll weld it in next week. On the plus side I'm falling back in love with this old girl, she's gotta treat me right though!

tom.hanson · « **Reply #363 on:** November 02, 2016, 22:03:09 »

Hi Scott,

I haven't heard from you for a long time. Did you finish the project?

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #364 on:** November 03, 2016, 21:12:53 »

Hi Tom

I haven't finished the project, I'm a long way off that. Been busy with work though and haven't gotten myself organised to stockpile any more parts. I wanted to get the sheet metal a bit more sorted before I went any further with parts.

You'll hear from me again!

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #365 on:** November 14, 2016, 08:31:28 »

The RH floor is now in, along with the new piece of seat crossmember. It was all pretty straightforward, the only area that took a bit of persuasion was the are in the front corner where the toe board meets the floor, it was a mile off to start with.

On this side I decided to plug weld the floor all the way round, the drivers side gave me a bit of grief with the spot welder so figured this was a more sure fire way to get it in, Ion the corner I would make a weld and then dolly the toe board to meet the floor pan, it all came out pretty nicely in the end.

I have ground the welds down and will need to make dummy spot welds all the way round next time 'The Chief' is in action.

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #366 on:** November 14, 2016, 08:45:50 »

I then started on the RH chassis rail, this has been giving me a lot of grief, I had spent some time messing around with it and trying to make it do what I wanted, in the end I decided to just attack the thing and see what happened.

First job was to offer it all up and then mark out where I wanted the seat belt fixing to go and get the reinforcement welded in, that suckers going nowhere....

The main problem that I had is that the repair panel isn't deep enough or wide enough so I couldn't get all sides to meet up. I had the bright idea that if I made a slit along it's length I'd be able to open it up a little to meet the existing chassis rail, I'd already cut the piece off that meets the inner fender, easy right?

So I plug welded the bottom section in, after checking that my new seat belt mount allowed the reel to fit OK. For the life of me I couldn't get the upper section to move so I had to make another cut vertically to allow me to bend the top section up and then added a couple of little fillets to fill the newly appeared gap between the two repair panels, my perfect plan not so perfect after all.

Howard Long · « **Reply #367 on:** November 14, 2016, 18:28:08 »

Scott,

I agree that this is one of the harder places to get things to line up. On the first side that I did I cut out the inner fender well a little more that you have done, about up to where your black line is. That only set the stage for a lot of additional work later. on the second side I cut the old rail patch panel only from the bottom and did not cut into the area of the back seat. Then I trimmed the new rail patch panel to fit, that worked better and makes for a lot less work when you finish the area.

For the nut to attach the seat beat retractor, I welded the nut to a 1inch by 2 inch plate, installed it inside, and then plug welded this plate from the other side after I had completed the rail and rail patch installation. It might have been easier to do it during the installation but I forgot.

I just finished getting the wheel well area welded in on the first side and I will send photos soon.

Howard

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #368 on:** November 14, 2016, 21:16:09 »

Yes it was a long way off, you can see here the original piece I cut out of the top is still a long way off fitting the wheel well and is a good 3/8" away from the chassis rail.

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #369 on:** November 14, 2016, 21:21:57 »

Its getting there though, this corner is the part on the other side that gave me the most aggro and it went easier than this side has done so far. Most of the chassis rail is in, I just need to clean up the welds, sort the top piece out and then spot weld it all...

I also welded the seat belt retainer into the rear crossmember, it's nice to check these little jobs off!

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #370 on:** November 14, 2016, 21:29:11 »

I've had the Mercedes 3 years now, it was at the November 2013 local classic car auction that I succumbed.....Seems I make all my emotional purchases in November

I went with a friend of mine who was selling a Triumph Vitesse there, I had been missing the bright green 911 that I had a while back and wound up buying this, it is a 1976 911S and is generally very nice, has a few running issues that need dealing with though, and the worst thing is that the heat exchangers have been removed and tube headers fitted in their place so it is very cold to drive right now. It's good fun though.

Howard Long · « **Reply #371 on:** November 15, 2016, 00:17:47 »

On the first side that I opened up the inner fender into the area behind the seats, it was very difficult to get the flange of the rail patch panel to line up. To make it happen I had to segment the flange and then reform each of the tabs meet the inner fender. I could not get good photos of that side due to light problems.

I have included photos from the second side where cut out the rusted area of the old rail patch, the bottom and the lower side, but I did not have to open the inner fender and where the patch panel goes into the area area behind the seats. Hopefully in these 3 photos you can see where I trimmed the new patch panel to fit just inside of the old patch panel which does the same thing and is many times easier. in the 3rd photo you maybe can see the nut plate for the seal belt retractor.

Howard

Howard

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #372 on:** November 20, 2016, 09:15:44 »

I carried on with the chassis rail yesterday. You can see in the first picture how far out this repair section was. I had to make up little fillets to bridge the gap but of course this has spoilt the natural curve of the panel. I tried to dolly it into as smooth a curve as I could.

The other problem is that all the pulling and bashing around there has changed the radius of the panel somewhat so there is a noticeable difference there. I suppose in hindsight it may have been better to have cut the top section out in it's entirety and make a new piece out of one strip of steel. It is particularly noticeable in the 3rd and fourth picture.

I will have another look at it on Monday and if I think I can do better I may cut the top of the panel out and have another go, trouble is I'm not sure how to make that piece with the curve and a fold in it.

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #373 on:** November 20, 2016, 09:22:32 »

The underside of the same panel is OK, once again the join isn't as flawless as I would like but with a light skim will look fine, problem there was I had too big a gap to make up with weld, what I should have done is let in a thin strip of metal to make up the gap.

Once all the welding and grinding was done I got to work on the spot welds, some are dummy some are functional.

Scottcorvette · « **Reply #374 on:** November 20, 2016, 09:34:02 »

I carried on with spot welding the floor pan in too, these are all dummy welds, there for show only.

I guess doing this under the car is probably a bit pointless as it will all get undercoated at the end anyway, but it makes me feel better about it all.

I will start seam sealing these areas now so I can get a coat of primer on the parts done so far. It is starting to get a lot colder and more damp here now, very British, and some of the bare metal was starting to go a little bit brown, I wire wheeled it all clean but I need to get some protection on it pronto.

I'll look at the chassis rail again once I've primed it and then decide if it needs another go, once that is all sorted I'll make a start on the rear axle/floor piece.

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Author Topic: 1964 230SL restoration in UK (Read 238401 times)

tom.hanson