Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level  (Read 901641 times)

mbzse

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1600 on: March 30, 2015, 20:23:01 »

Quote
i am also trying to get my mind around the exact purpose of this.  Is it just to give the top just that extra bit of reverse  tension so when the roof is cracked it will spring back that little bit easier
Yes you can say that. Also, the pivoting frame bar (see pic attached)  will move to the rear, pulled by the elastic bands,  when front attachment points are released and top is moved towards the rear. This will aid in folding the soft top fabric so that it goes more neatly into the well.
/Hans in Sweden
/Hans S

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1601 on: March 30, 2015, 21:22:50 »
Thanks Hans.  Off to buy my elastic.  Can you guys tell me if i am going to be screwing this to each of thr bows and if so how much tension should i apply on the elastic between each bow.  Should it be stretched to give as much as possible.

or does the elastic just get attached at the very front and then only on the very rear.
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1602 on: March 30, 2015, 23:51:04 »
As expected there is a dizzying array of elastic to choose from.  Probably 20 different flavors.   Immediately one caught my eye because of the color almost being the same as the webbing.  As it turned out its the one I ended up going with.  Not only was it the right hue but it was also the most waterproof of the lot as it was designed specifically for woman's swimwear.  It made for a very interesting conversation with the elderly shop assistant.  She seemed quite bemused when I plonked it down on the counter.  We discussed for a good five minutes the difference between all the variations.  Woven, Loomed, Dense and a few other subtle variations were all discussed.  I now feel empowered with my new found knowledge.  I didn't explain to her what it was for.  


Got home and discovered I have purchased twice as much as I needed as the stuff stretches to twice its resting length.  I glued and screwed the two sides from the very front bow to the bow that run over the top of the B pillar.  I need to know if the elastic should be screwed in the middle bow and also if there is any benefit running it all the way to the back wooden bow.  Please let me know how the professionals do it.  

I have tried a few times to retract the mechanism into the well to see how its going to help.  Its still a bit of a mystery to me without the top actually on.  I was always terrible at visualizing stuff.

I think I have done enough to get on with fitting the top now.  Even if the elastic has to attach to the rear wooden bow I am able to move forwards as I can always loop the webbing and elastic over it and secure it with glue and screws onto the back surface of the bow.  The reason I replaced the webbing was due to the wooden bow not being far enough back to match up with the new hoods seam lines.  So I had to lengthen the webbing to achieve this.

According to Jack at GAHH the last thing you do is secure the bows to the hood so I should be ok with this.
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1603 on: March 31, 2015, 06:08:55 »
Took the plunge this afternoon and started fitting the canvas.  Jack gave me general instructions which all seem very sensible.

1) Secure the rear gluing and clamping.  Make sure you center the canvas and secure in the middle stretching and gluing outwards as you go.
2) Secure the very front of the canvas with glue, screw and clamps.  Again center and work outwards.
3) Open and lock the canvas in place to give it a good stretch
4) Secure the B Pillar wires.  Thread them through the canvas and secure with the two cup washers and screws
5) Glue and clamp the B Pillars
6) Finish off inside by securing all the roof to all the bows

I finished up step one.  Was quite time consuming and probably is the most difficult to get right.  Took a bit of giggling to get the canvas centered.  If you dont get this right then one side will be tighter at the base of the B pillar which could cause some quite big issues when you get to that part.  There is a certain give in the canvas but only about 5mm at the base of the B pillar.  Even though I got the thing centered and the amount of stretch required at my B pillars is also even from left to right, it still scares me a bit how much more it needs to be stretched to reach the pillar.  

You cant do this under tension and will rely on leverage when the top finally pull this section taught.  I have visions of the top tearing.  The old top was torn on both sides at this location.  I am not sure if it was due to an inferior top or bad fitment.

Managed to get the back completely done and am really happy with it thus far.  I am a bit worried as it seems the only way I can get the rear bow to lock down on the back of the car is to slam it pretty hard.  Is this how it should be.  There is not much more adjustment.  The top is very snug against the paintwork which I am hoping is good.



Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

tel76

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1604 on: March 31, 2015, 07:46:41 »
Andy,
A little too late now but the elastic is secured to all the cross rails, except the riveted rail and of course the rear bow, I did indicate this in my last post, this is why the elastic is ! flapping in the wind ! as you say.
For anyone doing this job in future it has been my understanding that you start from the front, but I could be missing something.
Eric

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1605 on: March 31, 2015, 08:05:54 »
Thanks Eric.  I did take your advice and have secured every bow to the elastic.  I will secure the rear bow as well.  Definitely not to late.  I havnt secured the front so can still peel it back off the frame. Also Deliberately left a tail more than long enough to go right around the rear wooden bow so all possibilities still covered.

I had no idea of the order.  Guess it doesnt matter if you started from the front just following the gahh instructions.  Would guess that they have fitted quite a few of them and wernt steering me to far wrong.  Guess the proof will be the end result which i will be sharing good or bad.
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1606 on: March 31, 2015, 08:18:04 »
The following was the email Jack sent me.  Just double checked it in case i had stuffed up with the order of proceedings.


From: "Jack Dekirmendjian" <jack@gahh.com>
Sent: 24 March 2015 5:55
Subject: RE: RE: soft top

Your welcome Andrew.
All of our top install instructions are for models 2000 and newer.
General rule for the W113 soft top is to start from rear base.
Locate center marks on rear base bow and soft top.
Glue together at center mark and stretch equally to both sides to reach quarter.
Run side tension cables through the top sleeves and connect both front corners of top to frame.
Lock down front header with only corners fitted and go back to quarters and glue support flaps to frame.
Unlock front header and glue front edge of top to header (with little stretch) and now ready to glue the inner listing wraps.
 
Hope these tips help!
 
Jack Dekirmendjian, VP
GAHH Automotive
11128 Gault Street
North Hollywood, CA 91605
www.gahh.com
Tel  818.432.3757 x100
Fax 818.432.9338
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

mbzse

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1607 on: March 31, 2015, 12:44:02 »
Quote from: andyburns
.../... have secured every bow to the elastic
This is correct. See my text [blue] on your picture, re: the pivoting bow. Also reply #1600 and #1601.
/Hans in Sweden
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 23:04:56 by mbzse »
/Hans S

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1608 on: March 31, 2015, 18:50:26 »
Have a bit of a dilemma which needs and answer before I continue today wit the top.

The canvas has a double layer of fabric to be secured.  One slightly longer than the other.  My question relates to where each of these layers/tales gets glued to.

Two possibilities

1) The other shorter one is glued to the outside of the B pillar and serves to take all the tension of the top.  The second tail is pulled around the back and inside of the B Pillar and serves only for cosmetic purposes to garnish/wrap the back side of the pillar.  If you do this from inside the car you would end up seeing the back side of the canvas ie the same color as the roof.

2) Both tails are glued to the outside of the A Pillar.  Glue down the Long tail first wrapping right around the L bend on the pillar.  Then glue the second short tail to the long tail.  This would provide additional strength to  the top up and down the pillar.

Both approaches seem plausible but not being a trim guy I dont know which way to go here.
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1609 on: April 01, 2015, 07:40:05 »
Cranked on with the hood fitment.  Jack came back to me and enlightened me on the mystery double flap.  He instructed that they are doubled up to increase the strength down the B pillar as this section is under the highest load and often they rip at the base of the B pillar as a result.  My old one was torn here.  I guess it also gets a hiding when its folded into the well.

Glued everything up and mounted up the clamp bars. 
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1610 on: April 01, 2015, 07:45:54 »
Moved on to the front of the top.  Needed a bit of alteration for the differences in between the 230 to 280.  Needed to trim quite a bit of the front pocket.  Quick work with a sharp scalpel.  All the gaps are quite good.  I reglued and tension a couple of sections to improve things.  May still have another crack at it tomorrow but am wondering if after it starts getting pulled up and down a dozen times if all the detail will be lost as the top stretches.  Perhaps its good enough.

Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1611 on: April 01, 2015, 07:50:08 »
All in all happy with the result and will finish off the interior work and the tension wires in the morning.  Its been a long day.  Will just leave you with the photos. 
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

JamesL

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1612 on: April 01, 2015, 08:00:02 »
Once again. Wow - your car looks fantastic. Sitting beautifully

And your garage floor is spotless too!
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1613 on: April 01, 2015, 08:07:02 »
Cheers james.  The floor is actually a huge mess.  Its got so much 2k paint all over it its not funny.  After i am done with the tops i am buying 4 litres of paint stripper and bring the tiles back to something half decent.  They are almost indestructible with the exception of welding splatter which i found out the hard way.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 08:12:57 by andyburns »
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

andyburns

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1614 on: April 08, 2015, 00:36:17 »
Reunited

Finished off the last of the soft top.  A few small tails to glue.  Spent this morning withdrawing from the garage.  Quite an ordeal.  My grandfathers old 250s W108 now back where it belongs after a two year stint banished to the outside garage.

A pity I lost my 280se in the process but I am happy with my stash of old Mercs.  I am pretty sure this is where its going to end.  Still have to get the hard top stripped and painted which I know will be a big job but none the less it feels as if my journey is winding down.

I have taken the 113 on several drives now and each time it is just getting smoother and smoother as all the new rubber beds in.  All the time I spent securing everything and sound proofing has really paid off.  Rattle free and a very pleasant place to be.

Looking ahead I am trying to convince my wife to leave the kids with the grandparents and take a couple of weeks break to drive the car around the North and South Islands of New Zealand.  This plan was scuttled today with the signing of a new contract so back to work after 8 months recovering from the the back injury.  Feels strange.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 10:48:16 by andyburns »
Andy Burns, Auckland New Zealand
1963 230sl
1967 250s w108
1969 BMW 2002
2007 Mitsubishi i car

Garry

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1615 on: April 08, 2015, 04:08:14 »
Andy,

They look fantastic in the garage together,

Garry
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reggie

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1616 on: April 08, 2015, 09:07:25 »
Andy. I for one have enjoyed your journey thank you for telling us about it, Well done it looks great
Reg
1969 280 5 speed zf 180g

Paul & Dolly

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1617 on: April 08, 2015, 12:46:17 »
Hi Andy,

Congratulations on your journey, I have enjoyed your posts.

Re your Mystery Panel,

Is it not part of the under dash panel, on the drivers side, that has broken off between the pedals.

Keep well

Paul
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Cees Klumper

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1618 on: April 08, 2015, 13:28:05 »
X2 on the underdash panel.

Congratulations on the results, as well as on the new job contract. Hope the 'celebration tour' happens!
Cees Klumper
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star63

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1619 on: April 08, 2015, 18:17:42 »
Congratulations, Andy!
And thank you for sharing. Your car looks perfect - time to enjoy!   8)
       
Petri
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rutger kohler

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1620 on: April 08, 2015, 21:58:47 »
Hi Andy, looks really good alright! If the mystery panel does turn out to be the panel for under the drivers side dashboard could you plse keep a pattern as I am missing mine too.

cheers

Rodger
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Paul & Dolly

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1621 on: April 09, 2015, 07:25:52 »
Rodger,

These are the dimensions of a RHD Drivers side Automatic, if any help.

keep well

Paul
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WRe

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1622 on: April 09, 2015, 07:36:47 »
Hi Andy,
I have only patterns for LHD under dashboard coverings.
...WRe

action jackson

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1623 on: May 17, 2015, 19:46:20 »
same case my greatgrandson is also 3  my restro was 2 yrs  and way over budget 

stickandrudderman

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Re: Restoration Difficulty Level
« Reply #1624 on: May 17, 2015, 21:14:44 »
Andy, I'm recruiting!