Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level (Read 896442 times)

andyburns · « **Reply #1700 on:** February 13, 2016, 14:54:18 »

Finally made the big push and bolted everything back up and readjusted the clutch. Very stiff and sore after four hours under the car lying on my back. Spent quite a bit of time adjusting everything this time. Last time this gear was slammed back in under a haze of excruciating pain. This time a bit more care was taken especially around driveshaft alignment, center hanging bearing, exhaust pipes and off course the clutch. Results were fantastic. It drives much smoother and is free of a vibration and clunk it had before which I think was the exhaust position issue. Might take it to a big classic car show here in auckland on today if the weather is nice. Thank you all for your tech advice over the past month around the clutch. It certainly has given me the motivation to get it going again.

andyburns · « **Reply #1701 on:** February 14, 2016, 04:03:16 »

Awesome day. The 113 behaved impeccably. A bit nervous with minimal testing. Attracted lots of attention in the car park which was nice. The Mercedes club had a good display.

GGR · « **Reply #1702 on:** February 14, 2016, 04:07:47 »

Nice set-up on that track car. Transaxle seems to be a Citroen D series. Engine looks to have an ingenious turbo set-up.

andyburns · « **Reply #1703 on:** February 14, 2016, 04:08:15 »

A 113 was featured. Nice color in anthracite and red interior. One of drmb's beautiful restos.

andyburns · « **Reply #1704 on:** February 14, 2016, 04:12:07 »

GGR. Was talking to the owner. Amazing history. Was raced in the Australian gp in the early sixties with a mercedes 2.2 straight six four bearing crank. He has since swapped it for a 280s w108 engine. Supercharged of course. Fired it up for me. Doesn't sound much like a pagoda.

andyburns · « **Reply #1705 on:** February 14, 2016, 04:17:23 »

More pics of nice looking German tin. Perhaps next pub should be down here

GGR · « **Reply #1706 on:** February 14, 2016, 05:00:20 »

Quote from: andyburns on February 14, 2016, 04:12:07

GGR. Was talking to the owner. Amazing history. Was raced in the Australian gp in the early sixties with a mercedes 2.2 straight six four bearing crank. He has since swapped it for a 280s w108 engine. Supercharged of course. Fired it up for me. Doesn't sound much like a pagoda.

Supercharged then, not turbocharged. They used an FI intake manifold on a carbed block. Nice mix of parts!

From the picture you posted I can confirn the transaxle is from a Citroen Traction or early ID. It is a 4 speed (they later existed in 5 speed as used in Maserati Meraks, some Lotus etc.). It is turning the other way round in that set up, as it is normally fitted in the front of the Traction with the engine rotating opposite direction. I am currently doing a similar set up as I am adapting a Mazda rotary engine on one of these transmissions, and I will then put in back in a Citronen DS. I will have to turn the whole drive train by 180 degrees (putting the engine in front) as it rotates the other way round, and differential cannot be swapped directions on these transmissions. The good thing is that it will free a lot of space in the passenger compartment as normally the engine is kind of in between the legs of the two front passengers.

star63 · « **Reply #1707 on:** February 14, 2016, 19:52:18 »

Quote from: GGR on February 14, 2016, 05:00:20

I am currently doing a similar set up as I am adapting a Mazda rotary engine on one of these transmissions, and I will then put in back in a Citronen DS.

That sounds like a hilarious project! Citroen DS is one of the most comfortable cars ever. The original engine is a bit rough, though. Very interesting to see (hear) if the rotary engine can make that car even smoother.

(I have a CX Diesel Turbo II...)

777-300 · « **Reply #1708 on:** March 03, 2016, 07:21:06 »

Hi Andy.. has been a long time. Last saw your Pagoda on Viber when u had finished it and have been dying to see it in the flesh as it's a real credit to your dedication and skills! .Sadly lost some of my Viber contacts including yours due phone change. Also haven't been home a lot due overseas most of the time.. Must have missed you at this year's Ellerslie concourse.. have sold my 280CE but have temporarily joined this SL forum to finally get a hold of you. Drove to your place today but no one home. I bought another car from California but will tell u all about it when u contact me on 021 1437780. All the best, Pete Wist

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #1709 on:** March 03, 2016, 16:25:58 »

Pete, it's best to send Andy a PM with your number rather than publish it on an open forum.

andyburns · « **Reply #1710 on:** March 13, 2016, 20:52:52 »

Went out on the weekend on my first top down car Club event. Most of the cars were modern stock but there were a handful of old beautiful girls. Was great driving in convoy. My little girl went beautifuly. Starting to build up confidence in her now

andyburns · « **Reply #1711 on:** July 27, 2016, 02:45:01 »

Finally faced up to a problem I have been dreading since I put the car back on the road.... the brakes. Am sure the booster is shot. Hissing continuously somewhere down near the pedals when the brake pedal is depressed. I am almost certain it shouldn't be doing this. Can someone please confirm and if I am correct let me know what my options are. I probably don't want a second hand booster with a high risk of introducing the same issue.

Also am interested in everyone's thoughts on the early inline water trap. I took this out and replaced it with a W108 one way valve hoping it might have a beneficial influence on things. Nada.

Does anyone know if the early W108 booster is the same as the 113. I looks identical.

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #1712 on:** July 27, 2016, 06:27:07 »

Hi Andy,

No hissing from my brake booster. Can't help you on your other questions unfortunately.

mbzse · « **Reply #1713 on:** July 27, 2016, 08:20:03 »

Quote from: andyburns

.../...interested in everyone's thoughts on the early inline water trap.../...

What "thoughts" do you seek? Trap vas introduced since some condensation may happen in the hose. Has nothing to do with the one way valve. Both are needed. White side on valve towards booster.

Quote

Does anyone know if the early W108 booster is the same as the 113

Yes, identical
/Hans S

drmb · « **Reply #1714 on:** July 27, 2016, 09:46:54 »

Booster for R.H. drive 113 is a one off and not the same as anything else,it has a ball end on the push rod not a yoke.I have been looking for a new one for a customer for the past 12 months without success.

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #1715 on:** July 27, 2016, 13:26:02 »

Andy,
If you can hear a hissing then your booster is definitely leaking. To verify you can disconnect and block the vacuum hose from the manifold, start the engine and see if your hissing is gone.
What's often not understood is that a failed booster is actually an inlet manifold leak, just the same as if the inlet manifold gasket were leaking, and you will have a lean mixture as a result. (unless of course someone has richened it to compensate and then when you fix the booster you find that the engine is running rich. Some people may notice an improvement in starting as a result!
I can strip the boosters and assemble them with the original hardware.

andyburns · « **Reply #1716 on:** July 28, 2016, 00:17:48 »

Thanks guys. Hope this isn't going to turn into another major. Really want to get out and enjoy the car this summer and am hoping I can afford a new one if available or have this one repaired.

The unit is so so hard to get out on a right hand drive car I want to do it right the first time. I think from memory you have to take off the inlet manifold to get it out. I distinctly remember the grief I had putting it in. Outside the rubix cube dash I would put this one up there. If anyone else knows an easy way to get it out I am all ears.

The booster seems to hold vacuum. I can apply vacuum with my mouth (no grubby comments please) and feel it holding the vacuum. Its only when the brake is pressed that it leaks.

Lloyds comments worry me. If he has been trying to source one for a year unsuccessfully I feel I am in for a world of hurt. Can they be rebuilt and if so who can do it? Bear in mind this is a RHD unit. Many of the comments on boosters seem to pertain to LHD.

As for the water trap I am wondering why this didn't feature at all on the W108's which effectively have an identical booster. My thinking is that with the additional breaks in the pipe between the inlet manifold and the booster to accommodate this it just introduced additional points of failure in regards to vacuum leaks. Was this trap on all 113 models or just the early 230s.

So until I get this sorted my car is parked up. Too dangerous to drive without the vacuum assisted system.

kampala · « **Reply #1717 on:** July 28, 2016, 15:37:46 »

Andy,

Just providing you my Booster experience from a couple years ago. (LHD).

1. My late 250sl has the same water trap as your photo.

2. My 1971 280sl does not have the water trap.

3. When my 250sl booster was failing (clear and sudden hard braking needed) no leak was noted until the brake pedal was pressed. At first I did not notice RPM rise due to the extra air, but watching it carefully noticed a slight RPM rise.

4. I had my unit rebuilt in California, since my car was there. Actually drove the booster to their shop as I like to see real work going on. They repaired in a couple of days with whatever new parts they needed to put inside. It's a shop that does hundreds of Booster rebuilds a month as I learned that many shops send their boosters there. Would you not have such a rebuild shop in your area so you would not need to hunt for a RHD unit?

Best of luck

andyburns · « **Reply #1718 on:** July 28, 2016, 21:48:53 »

Thanks kampala,

Took your advice and rang around every brake booster repair company in NZ this morning. The advice/opinion I got varied hugely from throw it away to its entirely repairable, send it down.

I was hoping someone might have old stock diaphragms and be able to do a full and comprehensive service but no joy on that front.

I found a shop in the South Island who did immediately inspire me with confidence. He bombarded me with a swag of questions and has diagnosed it as a rear seal failure rather than a diaphragm. I hope he is right. The key symptom being its venting strongly out the back of the unit into the cabin. If he has the parts it will be 150NZD to repair. Finger crossed.

Kampala, do your know what they did to your booster and how much it cost. If they have the parts and this option falls through I am prepared to send it over to your guys.

kampala · « **Reply #1719 on:** July 29, 2016, 05:04:46 »

Andy,

Here's the thread. Cost was about US$ 200 back then. Their info is in the thread. Since I had mine done, I have read others have had issues with breakage in shipping. You may want to search for what broke.

http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=17598.msg122125#msg122125

I would seriously avoid shipping it all the way to California.

I don't really know what they replaced. They told me at the time, but not knowing what was inside the booster it did not register.

best,

RobSirg · « **Reply #1720 on:** July 30, 2016, 13:23:35 »

Hi Andy,

When I had my engine bay resprayed a while back the guys who took our the brake booster off said it was full of oil and asked me if was experiencing brake problems - but the brakes seem fine. The day after they gave me the car back (after putting it all together) the brakes seized and I couldn't even drive it.
My mechanic who specialises in old MB's had the booster removed and sent away for rebuilding. They took a little while to source the parts but I believe they found compatible parts from other models. Not all that expensive in the end including the labour to remove and reinstall. Been great ever since (better than before).

Rob

Benz Dr. · « **Reply #1721 on:** July 30, 2016, 16:16:49 »

It could have been as simple as the push pin adjuster. I've seen where I had to turn the eccentric a small amount to release brake fluid pressure.

RobSirg · « **Reply #1722 on:** July 31, 2016, 12:07:42 »

Thanks Dan - I wouldn't doubt that for a minute.
When it comes to enjoying these cars - I consider myself to be an expert. Alas my skill level ends there.

When it comes to repairing them - 99% of the time I solve that by opening my wallet to trusted people.
Thankfully, after opening my wallet countless times - I now spend most of my time enjoying them

Rob

andyburns · « **Reply #1723 on:** August 02, 2016, 22:33:26 »

Thanks guys. Tried all the basics and other good suggestion you guys have made. No joy .

Anyone got a spare rhd booster they want to sell

Kevkeller · « **Reply #1724 on:** February 10, 2017, 11:03:44 »

Andy,

So what ended up happening with the booster?

You had checked your fuel injectors at one point but only talked about one of them. How did the other spray patterns look in your tester?

Thanks for chronicling everything. That is a beautiful car you've made.

Kevin

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Author Topic: Restoration Difficulty Level (Read 896442 times)

777-300