Author Topic: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices  (Read 3772 times)

jehugh

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2021, 16:12:02 »
Before BAT we would have to travel to an auction, get a hotel room & pay a fee per person of $300 or so to see and bid on cars. With BAT no fee to get in and 5% buyer fee is less that what you paid before to the auction houses and it is capped at $100K or $5,000. So it can be a helpful tool we didn't have before.

You always need to educate yourself before buying and resources our Pagoda SL Group offers is a great place to start. That will help you filter out the good banter from the bad on BAT. You may find a car to bid on in BAT, but you need to know when to walk away and check other places like Hemmings etc.   

Maybe with stock market at high values, interest rates super low. You might have people now investing in cars that weren't before?? If they are less knowledgeable & paying too much. If we are buying, be careful. If selling, might be a good time?
1967 Mercedes 250SL
1930 Ford Model A coupe
2011 Mercedes e350 sedan

Cees Klumper

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2021, 21:42:48 »
There's also Ebay? It seems many people buy and sell vehicles there, and it's an auction site as well.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic white
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3 rosso corsa
1968 Triumph Spitfire MK3 1.3 canary yellow
1973 Datsun 240Z (son's daily driver)
1990 Ford Bronco II 2WD colonial white

Paul99

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2021, 12:18:31 »
Here in the UK there are some very silly prices being paid.  I went to a local Auction a couple of months ago and this 250 Pagoda was sold for £25000 plus the auction costs so about £28000 total.  ($38,000 ish)

It was totally rotten, many chrome parts missing, someone had "had a go" at replacing panels - very badly. I would honestly think it was scrap or ok for some (few) parts. 

Seems a lot of money for a car that needs 100% rebuild.

https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2020-12-12/cars/ref-81-1967-mercedes-benz-250sl-pagoda-dg/

MikeSimon

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2021, 12:50:18 »
In addition to the cars, on BaT, certain sellers are being hyped up by the comments. Right now, there is a red 1968 280SL that is restored supposed to be set to fetch a record price for a W113.
While the restoration is nice, it is far from close to what the original car was and thus the value is debatable. But because of the seller's supposed reputation, many are all up in arms about it. I don't know if i would pay 80k for it.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

john.mancini

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2021, 14:25:59 »
I just looked at the red 280SL that Mike has referred to. Yikes! At least the restorer put in the fake, perfectly spaced, inner fender welds. ;) ;)
John
1968 280SL 906 Blue 4-sp sold
1969 280SL 906 Blue auto sold
1970 280SL 904 Blue auto sold
1970 280SL 571 Red auto sold
1970 280SL 040 Black 4-sp sold
1966 230SL 162 Blue/Grey auto sold
1968 280SL 568 Red 4-sp sold
1969 280SL 304 Horizon Blue auto
1965 230SL 519 Red 4-sp
2017 E400 Cabrio

mdsalemi

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2021, 16:00:26 »
There's also Ebay? It seems many people buy and sell vehicles there, and it's an auction site as well.

Yes, Cees--my point exactly. And, Hemmings, too.

Don't forget that most of the auction houses, during the times of Covid (where we still are) have pivoted to models that include remote bidding, online auctions, and all other manner of sales where you don't have to "travel to an auction, get a hotel room & pay a fee per person of $300 or so to see and bid on cars."

Be reminded that for the formerly large attended auctions (such as those at Scottsdale) attracted large numbers of people who WANTED to get on a plane, pay an entrance fee, blah blah blah, because that was, to them, "an event" even if they weren't buying. Based on attendance at places (pre-Covid) like Scottsdale, those surrounding Amelia, Pebble, etc. it was a successful model.

What the feature of BaT seems to be is the ability for armchair people to sit back and comment on things remotely. Some of the comments are interesting on the red Pagoda. While the price is $120K now, it is far from "a record" for a restored car. Someone picked up on the US spec car with a km/h speedo; that's worth a query. The seller put the wrong steering wheel on for a photo and it got by...but was picked up on.

Good luck to both buyer and seller on that!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 16:15:14 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
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2019 Ford Edge SEL

thelews

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2021, 17:21:06 »
wrong, right, whatever.  I think most buyers of 113s don't really care.  They just like the car and want it to look and drive well, which many do.  Some prefer the mods, both cosmetic and mechanical.  I think the 113 appeal is that it's a very "modern" vintage car; comfortable, functional, great to drive, easy to live with and great to "show up" in.  And, it appeals to women too.

There also seems to be a negative bias here towards perceived "rich" people.  BAT has sold some very sophisticated cars to what have to be knowledgeable, sophisticated and rich buyers.
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE

68_white

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2021, 15:44:33 »
An earlier conversation we had about this seller.

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=23900.msg172293#msg172293
HARRY

70_RED

doitwright

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2021, 22:24:34 »
My takeaway from this discussion:
Looking to sell? Use BAT
Looking to Buy? Look elsewhere.

As with any auction site for any product, the final price is what the market will pay at a given moment. How educated the market is about the product is almost irrelevant. Sellers who are proud and honest about their offering, welcome discussion and feedback. Those that are looking to pass along their problems to others can be creative, deceitful and plead ignorance. Both groups are out there. Always will be. This applies to anything being sold. Caveat emptor.
Frank Koronkiewicz
Willowbrook, Illinois

1970 280SL Originally Light Ivory - Now Anthracite Gray Metallic

zak

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2021, 21:56:17 »
I think that BAT is great entertainment for anyone who loves classic cars. The pictures, presentations and comments are fun to look at and you get to see some unique cars. What's not to like?
I view BAT almost daily just for fun.
Would I buy a car sight unseen from BAT ? No. But I would buy a car from BAT if I could inspect in person.
Just my opinion.

jz
1967 250 SL
1983 280 SL
2015 ML 250 Bluetec
2007 ML CDI
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john.mancini

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2021, 02:08:00 »
It makes you wonder. Here's a red 280SL on BaT, with a faked data plate, a made up data card, mis-matched body panels, poorly reproduced inner fender welds, and more, that sells for over $150K, (including the buyer's premium). What's an original, documented W113 worth? The argument about matching numbers being important to buyers just got shot to hell.
John
1968 280SL 906 Blue 4-sp sold
1969 280SL 906 Blue auto sold
1970 280SL 904 Blue auto sold
1970 280SL 571 Red auto sold
1970 280SL 040 Black 4-sp sold
1966 230SL 162 Blue/Grey auto sold
1968 280SL 568 Red 4-sp sold
1969 280SL 304 Horizon Blue auto
1965 230SL 519 Red 4-sp
2017 E400 Cabrio

Dale

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2021, 02:18:09 »
  Oh dear, I obviously sold mine much to cheaply - but I feel  good about it, as it was an honest deal for both buyer and seller !!
1971 280 SL Five Speed (Getrag) Tobacco/Cognac.
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JamesL

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2021, 07:46:33 »
Here in the UK there are some very silly prices being paid.  I went to a local Auction a couple of months ago and this 250 Pagoda was sold for £25000 plus the auction costs so about £28000 total.  ($38,000 ish)

It was totally rotten, many chrome parts missing, someone had "had a go" at replacing panels - very badly. I would honestly think it was scrap or ok for some (few) parts. 

Seems a lot of money for a car that needs 100% rebuild.

https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2020-12-12/cars/ref-81-1967-mercedes-benz-250sl-pagoda-dg/

I’m sure the seller was reasonably chipper about it
James L
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MikeSimon

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2021, 13:56:09 »
It makes you wonder. Here's a red 280SL on BaT, with a faked data plate, a made up data card, mis-matched body panels, poorly reproduced inner fender welds, and more, that sells for over $150K, (including the buyer's premium). What's an original, documented W113 worth? The argument about matching numbers being important to buyers just got shot to hell.

John: This particular auction clearly illustrates one of the problem issues with BaT. Certain auctions are being hyped up by members of the audience because of the seller. Some others with "reputations" in the field, compliment and praise the seller and thus the item for sale must be outstanding.
That car is a collection of different parts from different W113 specifications, and while probably nicely done and in great shape, it will never have a spot among top originally restored SLs.
In addition, I would be careful about buying a car that was finished in the Dominican Republic and then brought to the U.S. for sale.
If you would make a comment to that on BaT, you would probably be flagged as "non constructive"
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

thelews

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2021, 16:19:25 »
That car is a collection of different parts from different W113 specifications, and while probably nicely done and in great shape, it will never have a spot among top originally restored SLs.

In addition, I would be careful about buying a car that was finished in the Dominican Republic and then brought to the U.S. for sale.
If you would make a comment to that on BaT, you would probably be flagged as "non constructive"

But, the buyer wasn't looking for a spot among top originally restored SLs.  That's what too many in this audience don't seem to appreciate, there's an entire market (demand) for non-original-correct 113s.  The universe of buyers for 113's is bigger than 113 originalists.

I've seen another restoration by the Dominican Republic restorer.  It's not a car I would buy, and not because of incorrectness.
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE

mdsalemi

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2021, 16:51:46 »
For everyone’s information we at one time had a very active member here who even showed up at a PUB in Blacklick Ohio at least once who was from Santo Domingo Dominican Republic.

Maybe it’s the same operation that is restoring these cars showing up on BaT?
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2019 Ford Flex SEL
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Benz Dr.

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2021, 20:49:47 »
For everyone’s information we at one time had a very active member here who even showed up at a PUB in Blacklick Ohio at least once who was from Santo Domingo Dominican Republic.

Maybe it’s the same operation that is restoring these cars showing up on BaT?

That would most likely be the same place and owner. I've been to this place in the DR and saw their work. Picking on one place seems unfair when no one is restoring these cars to their original condition for a moderate price. 
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Dan Caron's SL Barn

thelews

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2021, 20:59:09 »
Picking on one place seems unfair when no one is restoring these cars to their original condition for a moderate price.

I don't know if it's picking or not, but the example I saw had serious shortcomings, and I'm not talking about correctness.  Did you drive one?  I did.
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE

miked_md

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2021, 01:07:06 »
Mike,

You raise some very good points.  I am watching the BaT auction of the light ivory 70 280 SL.  The latest comment is from another seller/dealer vouching for the current seller.  What the forum needs is input from knowledgeable enthusiasts, not one used car salesman cheering on another!

Mike

Benz Dr.

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2021, 08:05:58 »
I don't know if it's picking or not, but the example I saw had serious shortcomings, and I'm not talking about correctness.  Did you drive one?  I did.

No, nothing was drivable during the time I was there which was for about a week. That was 9 years ago and I'm thinking their work has improved over time. So what was wrong with the car you drove?

 
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

john.mancini

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2021, 13:52:54 »
My initial point regarding BaT was that there were very high prices being paid for "sub-par" Pagodas. It really had nothing to do about originality, just the poor quality of many of the W113's that were being auctioned. Mike, you're right, negative comments are now highly criticized and flagged as non-constructive. I once felt the need to chime in on BaT but have since learned that most bidders don't want to hear any "critical" facts about the cars. Now I just sit back and enjoy the train wreck. ;D ;D
John
1968 280SL 906 Blue 4-sp sold
1969 280SL 906 Blue auto sold
1970 280SL 904 Blue auto sold
1970 280SL 571 Red auto sold
1970 280SL 040 Black 4-sp sold
1966 230SL 162 Blue/Grey auto sold
1968 280SL 568 Red 4-sp sold
1969 280SL 304 Horizon Blue auto
1965 230SL 519 Red 4-sp
2017 E400 Cabrio

thelews

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2021, 15:01:52 »
No, nothing was drivable during the time I was there which was for about a week. That was 9 years ago and I'm thinking their work has improved over time. So what was wrong with the car you drove?

To be honest, I don't remember.  I just remember the owner (acquaintance of mine and friend of a friend) had to have a lot of stuff sorted out by Black Forest and then ended up selling it at a loss.  I remember on close inspection, a number of corners were cut.  I'm not making a statement about all of their restorations (how would I know), but this one was clearly lacking. 
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE

Brian in NL

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2021, 17:32:18 »
A bit late to the discussion here, and maybe I'm in the minority, but I enjoy watching BAT auctions on the cars I care about. There aren't many other auction venues where the car can be vetted online for days ahead of time. Yes, some of the questions and comments are silly, ill-informed or irrelevant, but there are also a lot of helpful discussions for any potential buyer who may not be an expert in a particular make and model. And it's free entertainment when you've got nothing better to do.

That said, I have noticed a tendency for dealer sellers to get what appears to be their dealer friends praising the car to goose up interest and bids. Not sure that always works. And with Pagodas, in particular, there are a couple of "cheerleader" posters who attack any criticisms as "nitpicking." To me, the nitpicking is what helps inform the buyers. And occasionally, even as a longtime Pagoda owner, I learn a thing or two. They are supposed to have a rule about not attacking personalities, which doesn't seem to be regularly enforced. I haven't had any "non constructive" censorship of my critical comments, but I try to be constructive.

As with any auction, if there are two or more bidders who really want the car and get caught up in "winning," prices can go above market. Classic cars often are an emotional purchase, not a rational one. And it does seem that with recent Pagodas, emotion and a nice paint job have overruled common sense. So be it.
Brian Akre
1967 230 SL, U.S. spec, 050 White, Black top, 116 Kaviar interior, #17,030 of 48,912; born June 1966
1997 SL 500 Sport, U.S. spec, 269 Tourmaline Green, Parchment interior, #145,506 of 204,940; born Sept 1996
1991 Nissan Figaro, Emerald Green, #15,717 of 20,073; born Oct. 19, 1991

stickandrudderman

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2021, 18:50:42 »
I’m sure the seller was reasonably chipper about it
  ;D
He was!

i_ralley

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Re: Bring a Trailer Pagoda prices
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2021, 16:24:26 »
Very late to the discussion.
I just purchased an original 230sl on bat
I’ve followed the car my entire life last viewed in 2017 prior the dealer getting it.  I feel like it wasn’t cheap and I’m an enthusiast level car guy. That said it’s the only rust free pagoda that I’ve known for my entire life.  Since the auction ended the selling dealer has been contacted buy another buyer asking how much for me to step aside on the purchase.
So did I buy right?? I’m not sure.
Apparently Lowell?? From this group wanted the pictures for Baseline records to help determine originality of other cars.

Love to hear your comments.