Author Topic: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project  (Read 173036 times)

GGR

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #275 on: May 08, 2017, 09:49:26 »
One more picture:

GGR

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #276 on: May 09, 2017, 12:28:48 »
So it appears that the M120 engine is about 75 kg heavier than the M117 alloy block engine currently in the car:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/2297526-post24.html

The Tremec Magnum transmission is also quite heavier compared to the Getrag 265, about 31 kg more.

Referring to my previous calculations here:

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=15521.msg141234#msg141234

the total weight of the Pagoda with the V12 and the Tremec Magnum Transmission will come to 1446 kg, 106 kg more than what it is now, or 70 to 75 kg more than stock with similar option specifications, and its weight balance would get back to the factory 56/44 (considering that the transmission additional weight will sit nearly in the middle of the car) instead of today's 53/47. Not too bad.

According to some measurements I took the M120 engine is narrower than the M117 thanks to the 60 degree V and exhaust manifolds sitting closer to the heads. It is not longer than the original M130 and I may be able to have it sit lower by using the W109 6.3 front axle spacers. So the M120 may clear the Pagoda's engine bay without modification. However, the Tremec Magnum is much bulkier compared to the Getrag 265, as shown in the picture below. This will quite surely necessitate modifying the trans tunnel as the Getrag barely clears it, especially in the back left side of the transmission. Not sure I want to do this, especially when the already modified tunnel in my Coupe may clear the Tremec.


« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 12:51:19 by GGR »

Jimbo1907

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #277 on: June 15, 2017, 11:59:22 »
Which Getrag is that, Gael? Is that the standard 265, or a dog box?

GGR

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #278 on: June 15, 2017, 12:54:14 »
That's an overdrive 265. The dog-leg one looks pretty much the same, in terms of size.

Jimbo1907

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #279 on: June 15, 2017, 18:47:28 »
I am not sure how good the one is that we put in my car. If you decide the one you have is surplus to your needs, I'd be interested in buying it from you.

GGR

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #280 on: June 15, 2017, 21:49:22 »
Unfortunately that Getrag is not mine. I was putting it in a friend's car and I took that picture as the Tremec Magnum of my other project was lying around.

280SL

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #281 on: June 18, 2017, 06:02:02 »
Cant wait to see your 113 5.6
I am thinking about a M104 or C36 engine
Where can I find some literature about the project
Will the M104 bell housing and flywheel need modifications to mate with the 113 4 speed gearbox
113-1969 280SL
113-1970 280SL
111-1971 280SE 3.5
111-1970 280SE
111-1970 280SE
107-1989 560SL
124-1994 E320 Cab.
124-1995 E320 Cab.
251-R350-4Mat

GGR

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #282 on: June 18, 2017, 22:56:56 »
A group member fitted a M104 in a Pagoda, see here:

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=10038.0

And another one with IRS in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k48CdNqRb2s

I don't think the M104 will fit the pagoda transmission. The M103 may be easier to adapt, as I think it may have the rigth bolt pattern. But you should cross-check this information as I don't have any direct experience with this.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 00:56:18 by GGR »

Jimbo1907

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #283 on: July 24, 2017, 02:55:37 »
You are going to love the Tremec TKO gearbox. I drove my Cobra from Stafford, VA, back to Annapolis, last week; the engine and transmission are faultless. 90 degrees or more and she did not overheat or boil off her fuel. I, on the other hand, just got cooked in that polished aluminum car, no roof, inching along on I95 in broad daylight. I am too old for this ****.

GGR

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #284 on: July 25, 2017, 07:56:59 »
You should post a picture of your Cobra, and tell us more about it. I developped my Pagoda using the same recipe Shelby did with the AC Ace: put a V8 in a small roadster. The philosophy was a bit different though as i kept all parts Mercedes and tried to retain all the refinement of the original car, including engine character, to make it a true GT. I guess Shelby was much more after performance, and started with a lighter car. As we're not far from each other, it would be nice spending a couple of hours coparing the two concepts!   

Jimbo1907

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #285 on: September 20, 2017, 02:38:07 »
I have a Kirkham Motorsports Cobra. Interestingly, David Kirkham describes this car as a "hybrid". This is because it has the 289 slab-side body but the 427 Cobra frame and suspension under it. Best of both worlds, if you ask me- the better handling and braking of the bigger Cobra, but the prettier looks of the original 289 design. KMS cars are very well done- they are built in an old aircraft factory in Poland that the Kirkhams bought and converted to use to build race cars. Mine has a built up 302, about 350 hp, and a Tremec TKO 600 transmission, which is the best shifting manual box I have ever used. It shifts like a rifle bolt- really precise and easy.   Come out and see it sometime.

Today, at long last, I got to drive my 280SL complete with Getrag box. After the "incident" with 85-90W gear oil in the transmission, with which it would barely shift at all, we drained that out and put in Dexron; quite an improvement. I drove it about twenty or twenty-five miles today. The new ratios are much better. I actually think that 1st is still a bit low- I think it is 3.46 in this box, and about 3.20 would be better, moving the other ratios up closer together as well, but overall it is quite livable. I have not gotten it up to highway speeds yet but all indications seem to be that at 3000 revs she will be doing about seventy, which is fine. It is a distinct improvement over the original four-speed.

Speedy Cables finally came through for me, and we found the proper BMW fixing screw to hold the speedo cable into the transmission. We also had to remove the yoke and send it off to be sleeved, because its' sojourn outdoors whilst it was not in the car had pitted the surface which seals against the pinion seal. It seems dry now.

The speedometer seems fairly accurate, although I have to check it with a GPS or iPhone. As long as it's close I'm okay with it. The tacho needle jumps around and will need to be sent in to Palo Alto Speedometer this winter. They did the clock on my 6.3 and made a very nice job of it with new internals and stock appearance. I recommend them. I do NOT recommend that horrible outfit in New York who did the Smiths gauges on my E-type- they charged a fortune, and they came back no better than before. Nisonger, that's the name. I wouldn't trust them with a rectal thermometer.

It's been a long road to get to this point, but the car is nearly complete, and I am very grateful for the help and advice I received here, without which this would have been impossible- and even more expensive, for less results. Thanks again to all, additional info to follow as I get some miles on the car.

GGR

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #286 on: September 30, 2017, 15:51:43 »
I've been looking and some Kirkham videos on the net and they look to be doing an amaizing job:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBX8u8gVik4

They even manufacture their own billet alloy engine blocks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KLNJ8d8Vqc

And billet chassis!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ish34p2V3_A

I found their approach quite impressive.

I agree the earlier look is nicer. I will definitely come and see your car.

How is your Citroen?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 16:11:11 by GGR »

stickandrudderman

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #287 on: September 30, 2017, 16:20:36 »
I'd never heard of them until today. Impressive stuff!

Jimbo1907

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #288 on: October 01, 2017, 23:15:32 »
Ma Deesse, elle fait dormir. She hasn't been out of the garage in a year. That's one of the next projects, to get her back on the road. I think she needs a couple of new spheres.

I also have a diesel JDM LandCruiser, an HJZ 81, I think it's called, which I want to change from RHD to LHD. Do you know anyone who's done this? I assume someone has.

Michael Tung

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #289 on: November 13, 2017, 20:47:32 »
Wow your M120 V12 project looks ambitious! Would love to hear more detail about that and how you've already linked a T56/TR6060 to it!

-Michael

GGR

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #290 on: November 21, 2017, 06:09:13 »
Hi Michael,

we exchanged on the matter via PMs, keep us posted on progress!

On the same topic, here is an intresting project using an M120:

http://www.drivelife.co.nz/2017/07/project-fz12-fraser-zacs-hand-built-supercar-part-11-clutch/


stickandrudderman

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #291 on: November 21, 2017, 18:23:14 »
Nice, but I have serious reservations about the chassis mods he's made in the next chapter!


GGR

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #292 on: September 05, 2018, 09:57:28 »
A nice article on my Pagoda came out in the September issue of the "Mercedes Enthusiast" magazine, see attachment. Thank you Reed for such a nice article!

« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 10:07:29 by GGR »

kampala

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #293 on: September 05, 2018, 12:31:12 »
Gael

Very nice article!  Congrats.  I knew your car was impressive but this really shows it off.

Best
Oz
Paris France & California
250sl - later - manual
280sl - 1971 - Auto - Limited Slip Diff.

cfm65@me.com

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #294 on: December 25, 2019, 18:06:23 »
Hi GGR,
I have read all 12 pages of your post with great interest. Congratulations on a great job.
I have just succeeded in fitting a Getrag 265/6 in my 250SL Auto, and am very happy with the result. I have a 3.69 diff, as most 250 SL’s were fitted with. This combination seems to be working fine.
In an earlier post you asked a question about the E Type vs a Pagoda. I don’t know if you got an answer, but here goes.
I have one of each, 67 250SL and a 67 E Type Series 1 FHC and I love them both. They are both stock standard, except the SL, now has a 5 speed Getrag and the E Type a 2.88 diff.
They are definitely two different animals, the Mercedes build quality is good. The Jaguar has more, much more power. But, as I mentioned before, I love them all, Healey's, MGs, Mustangs, Porsches, Corvettes, Cobras, Astons, et.al.
Happy Holidays to all
Regards
Chris
Cape Town
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top

GGR

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Re: Pagoda 5.6L manual trans project
« Reply #295 on: February 09, 2020, 23:29:41 »
I love them all, Healey's, MGs, Mustangs, Porsches, Corvettes, Cobras, Astons, et.al.

Way to go!