Author Topic: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock  (Read 942 times)

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2693
Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« on: June 01, 2022, 21:39:21 »
With delays in raw material deliveries behind us, complete suspension bushing sets for Pagodas are now in stock. Check out the google link for the bushings available. NOTE: both 20 and 22mm sway bar bushings sets are available. https://drive.google.com/drive/u/2/folders/1rRQoi8WWADCTlNHsx4tBSqCxhC5kH0eF

These are produced from the tooling that Cox Racing developed many years ago and were very popular. They are back again!

Please PM me if you have interest or any questions.

Thank you!

Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

mdsalemi

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NC, Davidson (Charlotte Area)
  • Posts: 5939
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2022, 13:38:30 »
I remember some talk years ago about Cox urethane bushings.

Can you remind us what benefits these provide? I believe all my rubber parts were changed in the restoration 20+ years ago, so a refresh may be in order and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts, as would others I'd imagine!
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2019 Ford Flex SEL
2019 Ford Escape Hybrid
2021 Ford Bronco Sport Outer Banks

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2693
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2022, 17:30:55 »
That is a good question Michael. While they are a direct replacement as far as fit, urethane bushings will change the feel of the ride from OE. The big difference between urethane and rubber materials is that urethane is "tougher". Not a scientific term, but urethane will not flex as much as an equivalent rubber material. Yes, urethane has a higher hardness, but that is not only why it is tougher. Mercedes uses a relatively soft rubber compound and therefore it gives quite a bit. Those are engineered so that they provide maximium ride comfort.

Owners that want a sportier ride, may want to consider urethane. You do not have to do an all or nothing change out with the urethane bushings. Different areas can be done as needed or desired.
- Certainly there is a significant gain in handling with the urethane sway bar bushings and is pretty easy to change out.
- The next common change out is with the rear trailing arms. A bit more difficult to do as far as the amount of work but very beneficial for improved handling.
- The last bushing is the flat spring eccentric bushings that secures the front subframe to the frame of the chassis. Obvioulsy this is the most time consuming as far as the amount work required.   

These tools were designed and developed by Cox Racing many years ago. Cox changed its business model in 2020 and put the tools up for sale. A friend and a customer of Cox, asked me if I would be interested in continuing the product line. Being in rubber molding for 35+ years, producing urethane bushings is right up my ally. Since I am also involved with classic Mercedes of the era, it was a match made in heaven.

Because I did not develop the product line, I do not have I do not have any specific testing data, but am using a very similar compound to what Cox used (although mine is just a bit softer). I am selling to many of Cox's previous customers and so I am just continuing what Cox started.   

Please let me know if you have any questions!
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2693
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2022, 17:34:58 »
I do also produced urethane bushings for Pontons including the 190SL. See attached Google link - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1MVJ8X8afaa4weSd4nxI8ihO8nroBjJsj
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

JohnnyC

  • Full Member
  • Regular
  • **
  • USA, CA, San Diego
  • Posts: 59
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2022, 18:50:38 »
Wallace, Thank you for supporting our cars.., somewhat literally.  How do we acquire these sets, and what is the cost.

Cheers and thank you,
JohnnyC.

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2693
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2022, 01:48:58 »
PM sent.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

millermbz

  • Full Member
  • Junior Level
  • USA, AZ, Phoenix
  • Posts: 3
    • Millers Mercedes Parts
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2022, 18:51:10 »
Hi Folks, with Wallace's permission we can offer a discount on the parts for the folks on the 113 forum here. we are in process of working out a price for the full kits as well if anyone is interested. Please PM me and we can get you on a special list for pricing and work with you all individually if you like or we can mass mail once we get things together. Incidentally, these kits are posted on our website and can be found by typing "urethane" into the search bar on top...... Retail will be shown, however, I will post a limited sale in the coming days.  By the way this is my first post here, I would like to say Thank you to all the folks that purchase from us. We wouldn't be here if it weren't for folks like you. Big shout out!!! THANK YOU!!!!!! from our family to yours!
If you have any issues or concerns that you feel should be addressed please PM me and we will work hard to address and resolve them to your satisfaction

Cees Klumper

  • Audit Committee
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Long Beach
  • Posts: 5079
    • http://SL113.org
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2022, 20:06:16 »
I bought from Cox Racing and installed a set of the urethane bushings, must be 15 or more years ago. I ended up taking the rear trailing arm front ones (the 'doughnut-shaped' ones) back out as I found they transmitted far too much vibration to the body, but kept the others (at least the stabilizer bar ones and whatever else I bought at the time, will look that up next month once we are back in France and re-united with the car and records).
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic cream white
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3 rosso corsa "Luigi"
1990 Ford Bronco II 2WD colonial white

mdsalemi

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, NC, Davidson (Charlotte Area)
  • Posts: 5939
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2022, 14:55:23 »
Hi Folks, with Wallace's permission we can offer a discount on the parts for the folks on the 113 forum here. we are in process of working out a price for the full kits as well if anyone is interested. Please PM me and we can get you on a special list for pricing and work with you all individually if you like or we can mass mail once we get things together. Incidentally, these kits are posted on our website and can be found by typing "urethane" into the search bar on top...... Retail will be shown, however, I will post a limited sale in the coming days.  By the way this is my first post here, I would like to say Thank you to all the folks that purchase from us. We wouldn't be here if it weren't for folks like you. Big shout out!!! THANK YOU!!!!!! from our family to yours!

This is great. For those that haven't heard my story before, when I restored my car 1999-2000 at Precious Metal Restoration in Grand Rapids, MI (now long gone), the owner allowed me to source the parts, outsource much of the sublet stuff, and he handled the rest. No matter what I wanted to do, he was game for it. This was in stark contrast to several restorers I contacted that basically didn't want your assistance, just send checks...so it was a great working relationship AND a great learning experience for me--and a huge burden of research and paperwork off of Precious Metal. They could instead, focus on the work, not getting things.

Anyway, I made several exceedingly long lists of parts I knew I needed. The obvious (everything that was made of or contained rubber) and the not so obvious. I sent these lists to many of the parts supply houses, and few bothered to call me back or even indicate any kind of interest. To heck with this kind of arrogance. The parts guy at Miller's--Mike Ochoa--did take an interest, and did call me back, and we worked together on these parts lists. He knew the cars and their systems quite well, and was able to tell me many times that "If you do X, you also need to do Y" and slmilar. There were other parts lists I also went to a parts guy named Tom Hanson at Caliber Motors; this was before the creation of the USA Classic Center, and prior to Caliber Motors becoming MB of Anaheim Hills. They were, at the time, doing a tremendous amount of classic parts business and were regular advertisers in The Star.

I relied heavily on Miller's 1997 parts catalog (printed on PAPER, not online) as a reference. Mike Ochoa (STILL at Miller's, by the way) was fabulous to work with. Pricing was very good, relatively speaking. Now the entire classic MB parts picture has changed in the ensuing 20 years, but I'm sure the attitude and service has not.

So, the fact that these formerly Cox Racing urethane bushings were being sold by Miller's was welcome news to me.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2019 Ford Flex SEL
2019 Ford Escape Hybrid
2021 Ford Bronco Sport Outer Banks

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2693
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2022, 20:11:01 »
Thanks Michael. Yes, having Miller's involved is a big plus. 

To answer Cees' question - You would want urethane if you are looking for a sportier ride and better handling. If you want to duplicate the factory ride, use factory rubber.

I would agree with Cees that the large bushing on the front of the trailing arm could transmit noise and vibration on less than smooth roads. If that is a concern, use the factory rubber. That bushing is not much more than a thick flexible mount and is subjected to very little dynamic motion. But using rear trailing arm urethane bushings will be a great improvement.

The sway bay is a no brainer to me. It will greatly improve cornering.

The front flat spring bushing will improve front end pitching during heavy braking and acceleration.

Hopefully this helps. 

   
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

millermbz

  • Full Member
  • Junior Level
  • USA, AZ, Phoenix
  • Posts: 3
    • Millers Mercedes Parts
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2022, 16:42:20 »
Hi Folks, I apologize for the delay in getting back here, and thanks to those folks that PM'd me. It took a bit of time so...... Here is what we came up with.

If this information is in the wrong place please let me know and I will move it accordingly.

We have setup a VOUCHER for our website for the folks that wish to order the urethane bushing kits and individual urethane bushings. We are offering them @ 25% for a limited time. This discount will only apply to the urethane parts for a 113 so if you order other items it will not apply. We have all items currently in stock available for shipping today. I will work on getting the other kits added or so you can purchase those as well.

I cant stress enough, please take the time to measure your sway bars so you get the right parts you need for your Baby.

We do stock the other model bushings as well for the 108 109 110 111 and 112, soon to have the 121 that Wallace has been working on.

USE CODE: PAGODA  at the check out

Here is a link for the 113 parts only.
https://shop.millermbz.com/search?sSearch=113+urethane

Thanks Everyone, for those folks that PM'd me I will be sending out some emails to you as well.

The Miller's Team

PS. from one car guy to the community----- if anyone else has any ideas for future promotions that they think will help the community we are all ears. Please PM me with your thoughts and suggestions and I will be happy to see what we can do.



If you have any issues or concerns that you feel should be addressed please PM me and we will work hard to address and resolve them to your satisfaction

roymil

  • Full Member
  • Regular
  • **
  • USA, TX, Austin
  • Posts: 60
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2022, 19:58:17 »
Many thanks to Wallace and Miller's!  I just ordered a kit.   

Now that my car is drivable, every drive pushes it a bit harder, and I find my self wondering what a thicker bar would feel like.  I would be thankful to anyone who knows of a current source for sway bars?  thanks! Mark
Mark Miller
1968 280SL
Rode in his pagoda's first mile.

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2693
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2022, 00:12:22 »
I wanted to add another comment to the discussion of what these bushings do. I was talking today the with person whom developed the parts and tooling for these bushings 25 years ago, Cox Racing. He is very knowledgeable and knows the the minute details of how each bushing performs.

So talking about the front flat spring bushing, he says that the primary function for these is to control the suspension alignment and especially during hard braking and acceleration. It controls the for and aft movement of the subframe. So the urethane won't flex as much as the rubber keeping the alignment in check during these actions. It doesn't so much control the pitching as I earlier referenced.     
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

millermbz

  • Full Member
  • Junior Level
  • USA, AZ, Phoenix
  • Posts: 3
    • Millers Mercedes Parts
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2022, 17:10:07 »
Thanks to those folks whom have placed an order for these. Please get your orders in now so you can take advantage of this great deal!!
If you have any issues or concerns that you feel should be addressed please PM me and we will work hard to address and resolve them to your satisfaction

Lorsar

  • Full Member
  • Junior Level
  • *
  • USA, NC, Charlotte
  • Posts: 46
  • 1968 280SL (US)
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2022, 00:45:14 »
Following the instructions for the sway  bar diameter,  the circumference is 65-66 mm so diameter is 20.69-21.  Should I order the 20mm or the 22mm?
Lori
1968 280SL (US)

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2693
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2022, 02:55:47 »
It is common to measure slightly large because of technique and build up on the bar. I also show that the bar is 20.3mm. Given that and the fact you have a 280SL, I would say the 20mm is correct.

Thanks.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

Lorsar

  • Full Member
  • Junior Level
  • *
  • USA, NC, Charlotte
  • Posts: 46
  • 1968 280SL (US)
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2022, 03:03:21 »
I have an early 68 280 which has a lot of the 250 specs, tall fuel pump, larger csv, etc. so I always have to double check.
Lori
1968 280SL (US)

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2693
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2022, 04:13:36 »
What sort of measuring device did you use? Maybe like a flexible measuring tape?
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

Lorsar

  • Full Member
  • Junior Level
  • *
  • USA, NC, Charlotte
  • Posts: 46
  • 1968 280SL (US)
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2022, 13:28:04 »
A sewing tape measure
Lori
1968 280SL (US)

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2693
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2022, 15:22:58 »
One of the industries my rubber molding company served was the hydraulic elevator trade. One of the biggest challenges was to get field personnel to measure the hydraulic plungers accurately. These were typically larger plungers 3" and going to 8" or so. Some of these plungers were only 1/32" different in diameter and we had to know which it was. Long story short, I became pretty good at finding the pitfalls in obtaining these measurements.

Congrats on the fact that you used the correct type of measuring device. You can't even imagine some of the things I saw - string (it stretches), carpenters concave tape (doesn't bend around pipe without buckling) and so on. There are two reasons your dimension is slightly over what a caliper would measure. 1) the tape is overlapped and is adding a mm or two 2) Regular sewing tape is typically used for measuring linear, flat dimensions. When doing a circumference, the actual thickness of the tape wrapped around the bar will add to the measurement. Diameter tapes which are hard to find, are calibrated for this.

So if you take all that into account, you are probably right at 64mm in circumference which is right on the 20mm bar.       
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

dirkbalter

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, CA, Corona
  • Posts: 980
Dirk
66 230 SL
70 280 SEL
18 C300 COUPE
05 HD FLSTNI

Lorsar

  • Full Member
  • Junior Level
  • *
  • USA, NC, Charlotte
  • Posts: 46
  • 1968 280SL (US)
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2022, 20:06:40 »
Thanks Wallace
Lori
1968 280SL (US)

neelyrc

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, AL, Birmingham
  • Posts: 1055
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2022, 18:50:20 »
Link doesn’t seem to work 8) 8),!!
Ralph

1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
1995 Jaguar XJS Convertible
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
Italy
2004 Toyota HiLux D4D Pickup
2008 BMW 330xd Futura Coupe' (E92)

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2693
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2022, 19:42:35 »
Which link?
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

neelyrc

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, AL, Birmingham
  • Posts: 1055
Re: Pagoda Urethane Bushings in Stock
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2022, 21:54:40 »
Wallace, The link in Dirk’s Reply No 20.
Ralph

1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
1995 Jaguar XJS Convertible
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
Italy
2004 Toyota HiLux D4D Pickup
2008 BMW 330xd Futura Coupe' (E92)