Author Topic: Is it the multifunction column switch?  (Read 16860 times)

rgafitanu@gmail.com

  • Guest
Is it the multifunction column switch?
« on: February 14, 2017, 20:46:56 »
I am posting it here because apparently the W111 switch is different from the W113. The internals appear to be different and it is held together by (long) rivets and not by screws. Also the high/low beam change is integrated in the place of the wiper switch (the front-back move). The wiper switch is by pushing the handle housing towards the column.
By looking at a diagram, when switched on the high beam, the low beam is off. For a long time my low beam would not turn off when I switched the high beam. I wasn't concerned about that, I actually like to have more light anyway to combat the incoming HID high beams.
However recently, while switching to high it would not come on and the low beam would switch off leave me in the dark. The passing/flashing spring back position works as it should having both low and high. After fiddling with it now it's both low and high on the low position and still nothing on the high position. I can drive it by removing the high beam fuses this way.
I had a spare switch from a W108 which is almost the same, I unplugged my switch, and wired only the white, yellow and white/yellow from the spare into the connector to isolate the problem. Initially it was doing the same thing directing me to a fault in the circuit and not the switch. However this morning the spare was working almost correct, both high and low on high and only low on low.
I will try again with just a jumper wire.
Has anybody seen this behavior?
Thank you,
Radu

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2862
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2017, 03:53:37 »
Yes, the switch is different. Not sure if they are available new yet either.

Is yours a Euro car? US cars do not have the flash to pass feature wired. I think it can be hooked up and not sure if the same procedure as the W113.

My W111 always has had all four lights on when I use the High beam function. Low beam just two. Always has. To me, that is normal for this and all US cars of that era with stacked headlights. The low beam lights are the uppers, and the high beam are the lowers. Again like all stacked headlight cars I have ever seen.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

rgafitanu@gmail.com

  • Guest
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2017, 15:00:09 »
It is a US car. The passing/flashing option is interrupted in the hazard wiring harness which is sandwiched in the multifunction switch connector. I took it out a long time ago but I will add the missing wires and put it back in (like the 113). Yesterday I simulated the switching with a jumper and indeed the high beam switches both high and low. It's just that the switch schematics and when I test it for continuity the low is off when I switch to high.
Anyway, I will open up my switch and eventually replace the connector half with the one from the W108 which appears to be working. First picture is the switch, the second is a close up and the third shows the donor bakelite connector half from the W108.

rgafitanu@gmail.com

  • Guest
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2017, 15:58:32 »
Took the old apart. There is some burning of the copper blades and 2 of them appear to be fused. The pin that makes the high/low switching is melted at one end. It can be seen that the W108 switch had some improvements on the copper blades and the pin has metal tips so it would not melt.

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2862
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2017, 16:07:12 »
I am interested in hooking that flash to pass option. Do you have any pictures that show where it is interrupted and how?
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

Tyler S

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Encinitas
  • Posts: 1613
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2017, 16:37:35 »
Wallace, Have a look at my reply #601 on this thread. https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=15847.msg176401#msg176401 Pic shows the intermediate hazard lamp "sub-harness" that is missing the pins and link that Radu was referring to.
It may be a bit different on later cars but you get the idea.
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
1955 220 Cabriolet A. White Grey
2019 E450 Wagon. Majestic Blue
1936 Ford PU Flathead V8. Creme on tan interior.
1989 Volkswagen T3 Westfailia Campmobile. Dove Grey (blue)

rgafitanu@gmail.com

  • Guest
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 20:21:19 »
An alternative would be to check for a WHT/PPL and a RED/BLU/WHT wire coming from the switch and make sure they go through to the car wiring harness.
After I am done with this repair I will add those 2 wires to the hazard switch harness so I can have the hazard back.
Anyway I put everything together. One problem is that the original was held together by 2mm rivets 30mm long. It's probably next to impossible to find a 2mm rivet that is over an inch long and I wouldn't want to rivet the 50 year old bakelite anyway (very brittle). They don't make M2 screws that long so I bought M2 threaded rod instead. You need 6 child hands to do this.
The 4 wiper wires do not have any switching inside they are only using blank posts on the switch to connect to the downstream harness. I choose not to make the connections on the switch posts, it is already very crowded with heavy gauge wires.
I checked it with a multimeter and it works, I will install it tonight.

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2862
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 20:47:37 »
I had most of the dash apart not too long ago and would have been a great time to do this.   :(

Anyway, that is good information and thank you. I remember looking for the terminated wire at the fuse box and never saw it on my W111. It is a very early 280SE and not too far after the 250SE were done. So do you still need to wire the terminated wire into the fuse block or is the "jumper" what provides power?

I will have to dig around in there at that handshake connection and see what is all there. I need to rework my multifunction switch anyway so the turn signal will hold. I remember seeing that fix on here.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

Tyler S

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Encinitas
  • Posts: 1613
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2017, 23:00:09 »
Wallace, on my 250sl, Everything else was already there. Wire was already terminated on the fuse block. My belief is if the hazard sub harness was added for USA, then it is what disabled the flash to pass and removing the wire from the fuse block would be redundant and unnecessary on the line. (killed 2 birds with one stone-flash to pass disabled and added hazards)
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
1955 220 Cabriolet A. White Grey
2019 E450 Wagon. Majestic Blue
1936 Ford PU Flathead V8. Creme on tan interior.
1989 Volkswagen T3 Westfailia Campmobile. Dove Grey (blue)

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2862
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2017, 05:16:03 »
Ok, I was/am getting confused. Does your 250SL have hazards and the sub harness for that? When you say the wire is terminated at the fuse block, do you mean that the wire is connected to the fuse block or that the wire stops short (pun intended) of the fuse block and is not connected?

I think I understand you to say that your flash to pass wires from the connector going to the fuse block are indeed connected to the fuse block. But that since there are missing pins and sockets in the connector bodies, no current gets through to the switch. Your trick is to add the pins and sockets and to connect the wires so the switch receives voltage and the flash to pass feature is operational. Is that correct?

If I got that part right, then I have some questions about the wiring. To start, are the end of the wires to be connected laying dormant in the connector bodies? Lets go from there for now. I did look at your previous post and is helping me understand this.

Thank you for your patience with my thick skull.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

rgafitanu@gmail.com

  • Guest
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2017, 13:03:46 »
It's the latter. My car and from what I understand many 113's have been wired at the factory for all countries WITH flash to pass and WITHOUT hazards. In order to comply with US regulations they made the sub-harness for US (picture) that adds the hazards blinker and renders the flash to pass (FTP) inoperative. The sub-harness is inserted at the multifunction switch connector. The connector that plugs into the car wiring has the RED/WHT/BLU wire that brings unswitched battery power (30) to FTP and takes it to the hazard flasher (that needs it to be unswitched) but it doesn't continue it to the multifunction connector. None of the sub-harness connectors have the WHT/PPL wire which goes from the multifuntion FTP switch to the headlights. These 2 wires are in spots 9 and 10 of the connectors. This is where it differs from W113 because they have the wiper switch on the forward move of the multifunction switch while we have the high beam (their high/low beam switch is a foot switch) so their pinout is slightly different. I will add these wires to my sub-harness as soon as I find some spare pins and female sockets to place in the empty spots.
So if you have what's in the picture then this is the story.

Tyler S

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Encinitas
  • Posts: 1613
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2017, 14:50:27 »
Wallace, Radu hit the nail on the head.
2 wires with 2 female and 1 male sockets need to be run within the short hazard lamp intermediate harness between the 2 handshake connectors. The 4th wire end needs to be attached-(terminated) to the existing pin 10 to power the flash to pass switch. It will make more sense when you have it apart in front of you.
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
1955 220 Cabriolet A. White Grey
2019 E450 Wagon. Majestic Blue
1936 Ford PU Flathead V8. Creme on tan interior.
1989 Volkswagen T3 Westfailia Campmobile. Dove Grey (blue)

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2862
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2017, 15:59:28 »
That is perfect! Thank you Radu and Tyler. That picture of the sub harness is worth....a thousand posts.

Yes, I will need to take it apart and then I should be able to figure it out with these great instructions. So to be clear, I will be adding wires on to the harness that are not currently there? It will be a bit before I can get to this as I am doing some maintenance work on it now. Nice thing about having a collector car, rushing isn't a requirement.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

Tyler S

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Encinitas
  • Posts: 1613
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2017, 20:28:13 »
Wallace, Correct, two wires, at least on a 113. Don't know if a sedan would only require one wire as the circuit for high beams already exists in the loom. Do yourself a favor and unscrew the retaining nut for the hazard switch on the dash and take the whole sub harness with hazard switch over to your work bench to do the mod.
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
1955 220 Cabriolet A. White Grey
2019 E450 Wagon. Majestic Blue
1936 Ford PU Flathead V8. Creme on tan interior.
1989 Volkswagen T3 Westfailia Campmobile. Dove Grey (blue)

rgafitanu@gmail.com

  • Guest
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2017, 21:11:04 »
As Tyler mentioned, unless you are 4'6" and under 25 don't attempt this under the dash. As a matter of fact I am in the process of doing this right now so I will post pictures. I got stuck trying to find the correct pair of pins/sockets to place in the empty spots. I just realized that there are 2 standards in the same car, 4mm and 3mm (I believe) and I think I have spares of only the big one. Of course the sub-harness uses the small one. I will check throughly in my box of stuff. If I find more I will send you a set.

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2862
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2017, 21:19:18 »
I just redid the wood and gauges on the dash, so trust me, I know what I am in for. The W111 coupe is probably easier than the W113, but still. My seats were out at that point which made it almost tolerable. Good idea to take the switch out and will do that. I look forward to more good info. Good tip on the pins and sockets. I did not know there were different sizes.

I can't wait to flash someone :o 
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

rgafitanu@gmail.com

  • Guest
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2017, 15:32:12 »
So, here it is, detailed the addition of the FTP to the sub-harness.
First picture shows the male connector and pins and sockets from a W108 power window switch that matches the diameter. I still had to do a lot of dremmeling to get the pin to fit. The sockets were a direct fit.
Second picture shows the male pin in.
Third picture shows the male connector finished. A lot of pieces crumbled from the brittle bakelite housing but it still holds. Not easy to force another wire in that housing.
Fourth and fifth pictures show how I fished the RED/WHT/BLU wire in the harness and spliced it.
Last picture shows the final product.
Wheeler, if you send me your address I will send you a couple of pins and sockets.

rgafitanu@gmail.com

  • Guest
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2017, 15:33:26 »
For some reason it doesn't let me insert too many pictures in one post.

rgafitanu@gmail.com

  • Guest
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2017, 15:34:25 »
Third picture.

rgafitanu@gmail.com

  • Guest
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2017, 15:35:06 »
Fourth

rgafitanu@gmail.com

  • Guest
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2017, 15:35:53 »
Fifth

rgafitanu@gmail.com

  • Guest
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2017, 15:36:35 »
Last

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2862
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2017, 03:28:46 »
Great job and thanks for going to the trouble. I would like to summarize and please fill in the blanks below.
- Need to add one male pin @ #5. Need to add (2) female sockets @ #5 and #8.
- The white w/violet tracer is attached to male pin #5 and goes to female socket #______5_____?
- The red w/white tracer is spliced into the red w/white tracer already in the harness. I presume this wire already in the harness is going to pin #10.
- The other end of the red w/white tracer goes pin # _____8____?

Thanks for filling in the blanks. Note: This is for the 250SL.

Wallace 

PS. I filled in the blanks from the response below.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 15:13:03 by wwheeler »
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

Tyler S

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, Encinitas
  • Posts: 1613
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2017, 06:17:35 »
I will "kiss" it for you
Pin 5 to 5
Pin 8 to existing 10
How I wired on the 250sl. You can double up the wires on pin 10. There is enough room. Or splice as Radu did.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 15:59:22 by Tyler S. »
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
1955 220 Cabriolet A. White Grey
2019 E450 Wagon. Majestic Blue
1936 Ford PU Flathead V8. Creme on tan interior.
1989 Volkswagen T3 Westfailia Campmobile. Dove Grey (blue)

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2862
Re: Is it the multifunction column switch?
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2017, 17:59:16 »
Thanks for the kiss....I think.  :o

That makes it easy and just wanted to make sure. Thanks for all of the help and great pictures.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6