Is it the multifunction column switch?

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

I am posting it here because apparently the W111 switch is different from the W113. The internals appear to be different and it is held together by (long) rivets and not by screws. Also the high/low beam change is integrated in the place of the wiper switch (the front-back move). The wiper switch is by pushing the handle housing towards the column.
By looking at a diagram, when switched on the high beam, the low beam is off. For a long time my low beam would not turn off when I switched the high beam. I wasn't concerned about that, I actually like to have more light anyway to combat the incoming HID high beams.
However recently, while switching to high it would not come on and the low beam would switch off leave me in the dark. The passing/flashing spring back position works as it should having both low and high. After fiddling with it now it's both low and high on the low position and still nothing on the high position. I can drive it by removing the high beam fuses this way.
I had a spare switch from a W108 which is almost the same, I unplugged my switch, and wired only the white, yellow and white/yellow from the spare into the connector to isolate the problem. Initially it was doing the same thing directing me to a fault in the circuit and not the switch. However this morning the spare was working almost correct, both high and low on high and only low on low.
I will try again with just a jumper wire.
Has anybody seen this behavior?
Thank you,
Radu

[wwheeler]

Yes, the switch is different. Not sure if they are available new yet either.

Is yours a Euro car? US cars do not have the flash to pass feature wired. I think it can be hooked up and not sure if the same procedure as the W113.

My W111 always has had all four lights on when I use the High beam function. Low beam just two. Always has. To me, that is normal for this and all US cars of that era with stacked headlights. The low beam lights are the uppers, and the high beam are the lowers. Again like all stacked headlight cars I have ever seen.

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

It is a US car. The passing/flashing option is interrupted in the hazard wiring harness which is sandwiched in the multifunction switch connector. I took it out a long time ago but I will add the missing wires and put it back in (like the 113). Yesterday I simulated the switching with a jumper and indeed the high beam switches both high and low. It's just that the switch schematics and when I test it for continuity the low is off when I switch to high.
Anyway, I will open up my switch and eventually replace the connector half with the one from the W108 which appears to be working. First picture is the switch, the second is a close up and the third shows the donor bakelite connector half from the W108.

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

Took the old apart. There is some burning of the copper blades and 2 of them appear to be fused. The pin that makes the high/low switching is melted at one end. It can be seen that the W108 switch had some improvements on the copper blades and the pin has metal tips so it would not melt.

[wwheeler]

I am interested in hooking that flash to pass option. Do you have any pictures that show where it is interrupted and how?

[Tyler S]

Wallace, Have a look at my reply #601 on this thread. https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=15847.msg176401#msg176401 Pic shows the intermediate hazard lamp "sub-harness" that is missing the pins and link that Radu was referring to.
It may be a bit different on later cars but you get the idea.

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

An alternative would be to check for a WHT/PPL and a RED/BLU/WHT wire coming from the switch and make sure they go through to the car wiring harness.
After I am done with this repair I will add those 2 wires to the hazard switch harness so I can have the hazard back.
Anyway I put everything together. One problem is that the original was held together by 2mm rivets 30mm long. It's probably next to impossible to find a 2mm rivet that is over an inch long and I wouldn't want to rivet the 50 year old bakelite anyway (very brittle). They don't make M2 screws that long so I bought M2 threaded rod instead. You need 6 child hands to do this.
The 4 wiper wires do not have any switching inside they are only using blank posts on the switch to connect to the downstream harness. I choose not to make the connections on the switch posts, it is already very crowded with heavy gauge wires.
I checked it with a multimeter and it works, I will install it tonight.

[wwheeler]

I had most of the dash apart not too long ago and would have been a great time to do this.   

Anyway, that is good information and thank you. I remember looking for the terminated wire at the fuse box and never saw it on my W111. It is a very early 280SE and not too far after the 250SE were done. So do you still need to wire the terminated wire into the fuse block or is the "jumper" what provides power?

I will have to dig around in there at that handshake connection and see what is all there. I need to rework my multifunction switch anyway so the turn signal will hold. I remember seeing that fix on here.

[Tyler S]

Wallace, on my 250sl, Everything else was already there. Wire was already terminated on the fuse block. My belief is if the hazard sub harness was added for USA, then it is what disabled the flash to pass and removing the wire from the fuse block would be redundant and unnecessary on the line. (killed 2 birds with one stone-flash to pass disabled and added hazards)

[wwheeler]

Ok, I was/am getting confused. Does your 250SL have hazards and the sub harness for that? When you say the wire is terminated at the fuse block, do you mean that the wire is connected to the fuse block or that the wire stops short (pun intended) of the fuse block and is not connected?

I think I understand you to say that your flash to pass wires from the connector going to the fuse block are indeed connected to the fuse block. But that since there are missing pins and sockets in the connector bodies, no current gets through to the switch. Your trick is to add the pins and sockets and to connect the wires so the switch receives voltage and the flash to pass feature is operational. Is that correct?

If I got that part right, then I have some questions about the wiring. To start, are the end of the wires to be connected laying dormant in the connector bodies? Lets go from there for now. I did look at your previous post and is helping me understand this.

Thank you for your patience with my thick skull.

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

It's the latter. My car and from what I understand many 113's have been wired at the factory for all countries WITH flash to pass and WITHOUT hazards. In order to comply with US regulations they made the sub-harness for US (picture) that adds the hazards blinker and renders the flash to pass (FTP) inoperative. The sub-harness is inserted at the multifunction switch connector. The connector that plugs into the car wiring has the RED/WHT/BLU wire that brings unswitched battery power (30) to FTP and takes it to the hazard flasher (that needs it to be unswitched) but it doesn't continue it to the multifunction connector. None of the sub-harness connectors have the WHT/PPL wire which goes from the multifuntion FTP switch to the headlights. These 2 wires are in spots 9 and 10 of the connectors. This is where it differs from W113 because they have the wiper switch on the forward move of the multifunction switch while we have the high beam (their high/low beam switch is a foot switch) so their pinout is slightly different. I will add these wires to my sub-harness as soon as I find some spare pins and female sockets to place in the empty spots.
So if you have what's in the picture then this is the story.

[Tyler S]

Wallace, Radu hit the nail on the head.
2 wires with 2 female and 1 male sockets need to be run within the short hazard lamp intermediate harness between the 2 handshake connectors. The 4th wire end needs to be attached-(terminated) to the existing pin 10 to power the flash to pass switch. It will make more sense when you have it apart in front of you.

[wwheeler]

That is perfect! Thank you Radu and Tyler. That picture of the sub harness is worth....a thousand posts.

Yes, I will need to take it apart and then I should be able to figure it out with these great instructions. So to be clear, I will be adding wires on to the harness that are not currently there? It will be a bit before I can get to this as I am doing some maintenance work on it now. Nice thing about having a collector car, rushing isn't a requirement.

[Tyler S]

Wallace, Correct, two wires, at least on a 113. Don't know if a sedan would only require one wire as the circuit for high beams already exists in the loom. Do yourself a favor and unscrew the retaining nut for the hazard switch on the dash and take the whole sub harness with hazard switch over to your work bench to do the mod.

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

As Tyler mentioned, unless you are 4'6" and under 25 don't attempt this under the dash. As a matter of fact I am in the process of doing this right now so I will post pictures. I got stuck trying to find the correct pair of pins/sockets to place in the empty spots. I just realized that there are 2 standards in the same car, 4mm and 3mm (I believe) and I think I have spares of only the big one. Of course the sub-harness uses the small one. I will check throughly in my box of stuff. If I find more I will send you a set.

[wwheeler]

I just redid the wood and gauges on the dash, so trust me, I know what I am in for. The W111 coupe is probably easier than the W113, but still. My seats were out at that point which made it almost tolerable. Good idea to take the switch out and will do that. I look forward to more good info. Good tip on the pins and sockets. I did not know there were different sizes.

I can't wait to flash someone  

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

So, here it is, detailed the addition of the FTP to the sub-harness.
First picture shows the male connector and pins and sockets from a W108 power window switch that matches the diameter. I still had to do a lot of dremmeling to get the pin to fit. The sockets were a direct fit.
Second picture shows the male pin in.
Third picture shows the male connector finished. A lot of pieces crumbled from the brittle bakelite housing but it still holds. Not easy to force another wire in that housing.
Fourth and fifth pictures show how I fished the RED/WHT/BLU wire in the harness and spliced it.
Last picture shows the final product.
Wheeler, if you send me your address I will send you a couple of pins and sockets.

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

For some reason it doesn't let me insert too many pictures in one post.

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

Third picture.

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

Fourth

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

Fifth

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

Last

[wwheeler]

Great job and thanks for going to the trouble. I would like to summarize and please fill in the blanks below.
- Need to add one male pin @ #5. Need to add (2) female sockets @ #5 and #8.
- The white w/violet tracer is attached to male pin #5 and goes to female socket #______5_____?
- The red w/white tracer is spliced into the red w/white tracer already in the harness. I presume this wire already in the harness is going to pin #10.
- The other end of the red w/white tracer goes pin # _____8____?

Thanks for filling in the blanks. Note: This is for the 250SL.

Wallace 

PS. I filled in the blanks from the response below.

[Tyler S]

I will "kiss" it for you
Pin 5 to 5
Pin 8 to existing 10
How I wired on the 250sl. You can double up the wires on pin 10. There is enough room. Or splice as Radu did.

[wwheeler]

Thanks for the kiss....I think. 

That makes it easy and just wanted to make sure. Thanks for all of the help and great pictures.

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

Here is where it is different from W113, at least on my 67' W111. It is not pins 5 and 8 but 9 and 10. The male connector is missing only one pin the 10. That's where you place the pin with the WHT/PPL and it goes to the socket in the female connector #10. Then I suggest that you fish the RED/WHT/BLU wire somewhere in the harness rather than double up (everything is so tight that you risk breaking it) splice it to a socket in female connector #9.
I did hook up everything yesterday and everything works now. Now I have to make a bracket to hold the emergency switch.
BTW the pins and the sockets are in the mail with some more info.

[wwheeler]

Ok. I will go back and edit my earlier post to add correct info for the W111. I didn't totally understand to connecting points for the red wire. So to conclude:

- #10 pin to #10 socket (white /violet tracer)
- #9 socket to #___9___? pin? (red/white/blue)

Thanks again.

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

#9 socket goes to #9 pin or splice it to the RED/WHT/BLU wire in the harness to avoid crowding in that connector. You will see all this when you open the connectors.

[wwheeler]

OK it is all done and changes in previous posts are made. I just wanted to make sure.

Thanks!

[wwheeler]

I finally got the guts to go in and rip out the sub-harness. And of course it is different!

My W111 280SE pins and sockets are all 4mm for one. Bigger than the 3mm ones Radu had. The pins are solid posts BTW and not split. The other and most important is that all 14 pins are there going to the bulkhead and only one socket (#9) is missing on the connector going to the multifunction switch. I already have the white/violet wire on #10 pin going to #10 socket.

The#9 socket has a blue with red/white tracer and that goes to the hazard socket.

Could it be as easy as adding the #9 socket and connecting a wire to that to the Blue - red/white tracer wire from #9 pin?

Thanks!


 

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

Hello Wallace,
I guess there are 2 ways to skin this cat (deleting the FTP) and it is easier to remove only the power coming from the battery to the switch which is the RED/WHT/BLU and leave the wire going to the load WHT/PPL there.
One detail (maybe too detail) but I would make sure it is RED/WHT/BLU and not BLU/RED/WHT. Germans are very good at sticking to standards and although I am almost sure there is no BLU/RED/WHT going to the multifunction switch I would just double check. The wire's jacket is red so if you scrape the white or the blue there should be red. Funny, as I am writing I see on my desk a piece left over from that wire (pic). It appears that there are 2 sets of WHT/BLU stripes diametrically opposed on the wire (splitting hairs??).
Anyway if you need 4 mm pins or sockets let me know I have a lot of those.

[Tyler S]

Wallace, I would check the load side connections with a jumper wire with the column switch disconnected just to be sure the FTP comes on. Then check the opposite column "switch" side for continuity with an ohm meter while you pull the stock for FTP.
Just to be sure. If somthing is amiss you may cook the column switch contacts.

[wwheeler]

Radu,
I just looked again and it is definitely a blue casing with white and red tracers. And I did a continuity test and it is the same wire going to the hazard switch connector. There is no red with tracers like yours. Yes, mine seems simpler and not sure why they went to added work of removing the #10 connections on yours?  I have sockets and think they are 4mm and will check and thanks for the offer.

Tyler,
Yes, I was thinking it is too risky just to plug it in and was thinking how to test. I am afraid your terminology is above my level and I don't want to screw this up. So with the harness out:
1) I would check the #9 position on the connector coming from the bulkhead for 12 V power. #10 should be the return from the switch going to the high beam?
2) Then do a continuity check on the switch harness connector between (#9 and#10) while pulling back on the stalk (FTP).
3) If that is good then maybe run a 12 V jumper to the #9 switch harness connector and see if the FTP works? Is #9 or #10 on the load side of the FTP switch? My thinking is that #10 Is the load side and #9 is the line side and not sure the jumper would do anything on #9 alone? Seems like you would also need a jumper on #10 from the switch side to bulkhead connector for the FTP to work?

Thanks.

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

To clarify:
1) Prior to installing the BLU/RED/WHT wire you will have 12V on the bulkhead connector not on the subharness connector that mates to it.
2) Yes.
3) Yes. #10 is the load side and #9 is the power side. If the jumper has 12V in it the lights will be on when you touch the #9. Or with  the subharness connected except the multifunction connector jump #9 to #10 in the multifunction connector (after wiring in the BLU/RED/WHT #9).
Sorry Tyler for answering your questions please step in if I made a mistake.
It is surprising about your different colors, my colors are identical to the colors on the 280 in the technical bulletin here.

[wwheeler]

OK thanks. That makes sense and just took me a bit of time to sort it out in my head. Not sure why the #10 is wired and why the wire color is different on my early 280SE from yours.

After the test, I may try to wire the new #9 socket from the switch connector to the socket on the hazard connector. That would require soldering two wires on one socket and should be doable. That would avoid a splice in the harness. I will make sure there is enough room first though.

With Mercedes, I have come to expect changes with everything, mechanical, electrical you name it even within the same model year. The worst is possibly my 1960 coupe and things were changing on that car by the hour. 

[wwheeler]

OK, here is a thought thinking outside the box. What if I eliminate the sub harness altogether? Yes, the hazards would not work, but then no wire alterations are needed for FTP.

I drive this car only on "Sunday drives" in nice weather and frankly have never used the hazards. In fact, they do not work now because I have LED bulbs for the turn signals and installed an electronic flasher for that to work. The only way to get the hazards to work with LED bulbs is to install resistors at each bulb and I didn't want that. I have no inspection because the car is an antique w/ the driving restrictions.

I will certainly keep the harness and can always plug it back in to return it to stock. Is this too good to be true?

[66andBlue]

... The only way to get the hazards to work with LED bulbs is to install resistors at each bulb and I didn't want that.   ...

Hi Wallace,
this is not quite correct, there is more than one way to skin a {insert favorite object} 
See: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/FlasherRelay   - scan down to the end.

[rgafitanu@gmail.com]

I drove without the hazard subharness for 2 years. We are driving 50 year old cars which are "more" prone to problems. Mine used to stall in the middle of the road when I had the fuel tank issue and I had to roll down the window manually to wave at the people behind me to pass. Drivers now are scared to pass on 2 way streets. Oh, the big wide Texas roads, here the roads were built by the pilgrims in the 1600's and not much changed since.
So I put the hazards back on. Actually you can simulate the FTP by switching to high and back, it's just not self detente. I put resistors on my front LED flashers.

[wwheeler]

Alfred,
I thought the hazard switch used its own internal circuitry? I have the electronic flasher for the turn signals now and works just fine. I just don't see how that could affect the hazards as it has its own sub harness for the US?


I agree no hazards are a risk, but the roads here as you say are wide especially the ones I drive on. And I almost never go on a freeway anymore. Too many rock chips! So in my environment, maybe an option. But that is a point and maybe should have a "safety triangle" or such in my trunk just in case.

[Tyler S]

Another difference between the DIP and  FTP is the FTP works without the key or headlights being switched on

[wwheeler]

That is the reason I am wanting the feature is so when some lunkhead pulls a stupid move in front of me, I can signal him. Yes, we have plenty of bad drivers to go around here to.

[wwheeler]

The dirty deed is done. The attached picture is my sub-harness that is now stored away for safe keeping. I also took a picture of the sub-harness bracket that attaches to the standard under dash metal bracket. Of course it is all documented how to put it back should I need it again.

Note: that the socket connector (bottom/left) has a special snap attachment on its cover and fits into the "squarish" hole in the metal bracket. That is what holds it to the bracket. I was able to greatly clean up the mess under dash that the sub harness made. It was a clever modification by Mercedes and one that can be reversed quite easily. So now the hazard switch is back in the dash but is non-functional. And most important - the Flash to Pass feature works like a charm. If I ever rewire the car, I will most certainly reinstall the sub-harness and include the changes documented here on this thread.

Thanks for all of the help and has been a great learning experience!