Author Topic: M130 Hot Rod Build Advice (or... How to Get Rid of the Factory Emissions)  (Read 360 times)

1972_C114

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Not a Pagoda, but I think that this is the best forum for my questions...

I have always been a purist, but after driving my 1972 250c US-spec w114 (M130.923) over 3k miles in the past 6 months, I have come to the conclusion that I really love this car BUT that it is just a bit too slow. And as it turns out, 1972 is the ABSOLUTELY WORST year for Mercedes and North American emissions control. According to factory literature, the changes made to my 1972 250c included (among other things):

- Lowering compression to 8:1 (from 9:1) by using an M114 2.5L head on a 2.8L engine
- Smaller 32/40 Zenith INAT carbs instead of the 35/40 used in previous years
- Reduced the height of the pistons (some unspecified amount)
- That crazy advance/retard distributor and vacuum switch system

I'm not looking for a tire burner, but I am hoping that I can hop-up the engine enough--while keeping it looking stock--to greatly enhance my driving pleasure.

I plan to start on the top end of the engine, and based on information on this forum, I hope to install:

- 9:1 compression oval head (from a 1970 280s; designation 280 S/A)
- #9 cam (used on the late 280SL)
- rebuild and install a pair of 35/40 Zeniths

I am not a mechanic. So, I am wondering if there are other things that I should be thinking about/doing while I'm going to this trouble (for example, I am very curious about distributor options)? Any advice would be welcome. Thanks.






« Last Edit: July 20, 2025, 22:06:02 by 1972_C114 »

rwmastel

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Wouldn't it be much simpler to swap engines instead of re-engineering Mercedes' hard work and many $$ spent  making that engine work reliably?

Maybe one of these will fit?  Maybe the M110.981?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M110_engine
Rodd

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Jack the Knife

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I agree with Rodd. I think there are some really cool engine swap options available out there for you, including an OM606 turbo-swapped 280CE I saw some time ago. The M110 is interesting because it's relatively cheap and has some off-the-shelf AMG modifications available for it, including some camshafts and such made to their specs by some companies new. There was a guy who raced an M110-swapped 230SL in vintage racing events and it had over like 260hp or something like that. There's a lot that can be done.

Or the M104, a pretty well-studied engine.

But that M110 is a great suggestion. It was intended for your car. You'll get fifty more horsepower in stock (non-AMG) guise if you go with fuel injection. Off-the-shelf parts will get you up to 209hp (as offered in some AMG W123s and W116 cars). Of course, that opens the door to "just sell your car and buy a 280CE 5-speed," which is the same price as Metric Motors rebuild. :^)
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1972_C114

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Obviously I wasn't clear because my intention is to basically reverse-engineer a 280SL engine for my car except it will be carbureted instead of fuel injection, and 9:1 instead of 9.5:1. So, I don't think I'm doing anything crazy. I'm certainly not taking it even to the level that Mercedes did with the 280SL.

The M110 was offered for my car starting in 1973, albeit with a different firewall. A swap would require some body engineering for stiffening purposes. But in truth, I prefer the simplicity of the M130. And if I really wanted an M110, I would just sell my car and buy a 1973 280c or 280ce.

Lastly, I have read of numerous people on this group have hot rodded their M130s with great success. So, I do know that it is possible to do if done properly.

rwmastel

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I guess I simply don't understand the desire to reverse-engineer or re-engineer something that extremely skilled and well funded engineers built.  Is getting a M130 280SL engine w/ fuel injection a problem?  Why stay with carburetors if you want power?
Rodd

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1972_C114

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I guess I simply don't understand the desire to reverse-engineer or re-engineer something that extremely skilled and well funded engineers built.  Is getting a M130 280SL engine w/ fuel injection a problem?  Why stay with carburetors if you want power?

I think the main reason that you don't understand what I am contemplating is that you are laboring under the false premise that "extremely skilled and well-funded engineers" designed my engine. They did not. The 1972 model year was designed by US/Canadian government regulations that required certain emissions levels that Mercedes was desperate to meet or drop out of the North American market. I doubt that the engineers who worked on my engine configuration were proud of their creation any more than Mercedes loved the hideous 5mph bumpers that the US government imposed in late-1973.

As far as staying with carburetion, as I stated earlier, the goal is to keep the car looking original.

Furthermore, I'm not looking for all-out power. If that were the goal, I'd do an engine swap or buy a different car. Instead, I'm looking to make the car a couple of seconds faster so that I can get out of the way of other drivers.

I should also mention that the 1971 version of my car had 9:1 compression ratio and the larger 35/40 carburetors. But it didn't have the #9 "hot" cam or fuel injection that the 280SL did. It could have, but Mercedes was designing these cars for a specific price point and (most importantly) they certainly did not want the 250c to be as fast as the 280SL, the latter being their sports car offering.




rwmastel

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Sure, the US regulations put restrictions and conditions on how an engine should perform (pollute), but the engineers at MB designed the engine to meet those requirements. It's possible they were very proud of their work given the restrictions imposed.

Still, to each their own and if you want more power while maintaining looks, go for it.  Like an engineer, I recommend you measure your work.  Buy a "Draggy" and measure your 0-60 and 1/4 mile acceleration times before you make changes.  Then, measure again with each change along the way.  It won't give HP numbers, but it's good science for little money.  It will track factual raw data showing improvements.  Also, buy an exhaust gas analyzer to make sure you're keeping the car in good tune after changes.  Oh, and if you want to spend (and learn) more, use a dyno before and after the project is done to get true HP changes. You can report back on the changes that had the most raw affect, the ones that had the most affect for the time/mone spent, and so forth.  Happy horsepower hunting!  I hope you get good performance returns on your time & money investments.
Rodd

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1972_C114

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Like an engineer, I recommend you measure your work.  Buy a "Draggy" and measure your 0-60 and 1/4 mile acceleration times before you make changes.  Then, measure again with each change along the way.  It won't give HP numbers, but it's good science for little money.  It will track factual raw data showing improvements.  Also, buy an exhaust gas analyzer to make sure you're keeping the car in good tune after changes.  Oh, and if you want to spend (and learn) more, use a dyno before and after the project is done to get true HP changes. You can report back on the changes that had the most raw affect, the ones that had the most affect for the time/money spent, and so forth.  Happy horsepower hunting!  I hope you get good performance returns on your time & money investments.

Thanks for the good advice. This is part of my goal. I have already found a shop nearby that has a dyno and fine tunes cars for racing. Hopefully they will not laugh at my project. But I definitely want to track the changes and am hoping they are noticeable!

Jack the Knife

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Thanks for the good advice. This is part of my goal. I have already found a shop nearby that has a dyno and fine tunes cars for racing. Hopefully they will not laugh at my project. But I definitely want to track the changes and am hoping they are noticeable!

A good friend of mine has a sorta hot-rodded (let's say OEM+) 280SL, not on this forum. It's been his wife's daily driver for like 35 years or so now. Some of the work he's done might interest you.

Ported/polished the head, hotter Euro cam (this was a US-spec car), somehow through head work or whatever he eked out about 2.96L or so displacement . . . a while ago, before I thought it wasn't much use for my 230SL considering its stock tubular headers, I'd contemplated custom headers through Renntech which is somewhat local to me or through Stahl. Both were very interested, Stahl more so, but they weren't local. I just cerakoted them instead. Getting this engine to breathe will make a difference. Reducing unsprung weight will make a difference - consider the oft-discussed aluminum 'steelies' from the W123 cars (very VERY light) or Maxilite (or similar) bundt repros if that's your thing, though they're getting a bit overpriced. One of our members, Alfred, has some very well-priced aluminum hubcap wheels for sale right now. People have converted your engine to EFI, that's worth some research, if you care to go down that rabbit hole, but it's much more intensive than these other changes. An electronic distributor will make a small difference. There was a guy a while back I talked to who turbocharged your same engine for his unimog. I think it takes 4-5lbs of boost. Also much more intensive, and if it were my car, that would lead me to a cascade of other 'improvements' for longevity (forged pistons and that kind of thing).

I understand what you're wanting to do as I've been there myself on my own car. Mercedes really didn't leave much headroom in this era for modifying their engines. The M180/M130 block is a bit difficult too because of the cooling passage elimination between the cylinders to get that extra displacement, hence the added cooling by the radiator. I'd be concerned about that. To be clear, I am not a mechanic and in fact I don't know much of anything at all, just opining from the people I've spoken to who have poured money into trying to get a little bit more out of these engines.

Another one is you could change the rear end gearing, like putting a 4.08 limited-slip rear axle like I did in my car. I already had a 4.08 but in the small amount of driving I did after putting that in, I enjoyed the change in handling.

All of this REALLY ADDS UP. W114 cars are not expensive. I'd still strongly encourage you to get an M110. People are more warm to nicely-modified W113s than they are W114s unless you went full-Mechatronik on it. I do not think you will recapture even 50% of the money spent, should you aim to sell it, unless you're replacing parts that are at the end of their service life anyway. It's easy to end up in a cascade of changes and if you really love the car, then great. Otherwise, holy smokes, it's way easier and probably more fun/rewarding modifying another car. I know you're not me and I also hate when people go 'well why don't you just get xyz' (I'm into vintage stereo junk and this happens constantly), but still, I'd rather a C107 or W123 coupe if I wanted to modify things and I wasn't a mechanic or I didn't have a Rudy Klein-sized junkyard to pull things from and experiment. Those cars have a bigger community and more legwork already done for you.

Anyway, bottom line. Get lighter wheels and more direct plug-and-play mods.

There was a discussion about your very car here (a '72 250C) 12-years-ago with some opinions shared by people whose mechanical knowledge I respect greatly, see: https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=17750.0
1964 230SL "Blue Note" -- #009785
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1972_C114

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Jack the Knife... Thank you for your thoughtful response. So many mixed emotions on this topic...

1. It occurs to me while reading the link you posted that part of my power problem is the fact that my car is worn out from old age and/or mileage. I'm pretty sure the carbs are not working correctly and need a rebuild. Also think I need a valve job. And there are probably other problems that I'm not completely aware of.

So, that does give me the opportunity to tinker with some possible improvements while fixing real problems--IF I'm crazy enough to sink more money into this car instead of jumping ship.

2. I think that a lot of the reason the w114s are relatively cheap is the fact that they are underpowered. But they drive so nicely that I just love getting behind the wheel.

3. I have read on a Unimog forum that M130 has problems with "localized coolant boiling" issues when hot rodded and has to be dialed back to deal with it. I do plan to inquire more about what that community knows.

4. Dealing with the carburetors... I was thinking a 35/40 was a 35/40. But from what you sent, I guess they look the same but have different specs per application?

4. I have considered ditching my 250c for a w114 280ce with fuel-injected M110 but (because they weren't sold in the US) the only one I've found is a wreck. I have also thought about moving to a W108 280SEL 4.5, but I haven't ever driven one to know if I will like it. I have heard they are faster but do not handle as well. They are certainly handsome and more luxurious than the w114.

5. Yes, I would imagine the aluminum wheels would be a great improvement. I was not able to find the Alfred advertisement that you mentioned.

Thanks again for your advice!

« Last Edit: July 22, 2025, 19:41:03 by 1972_C114 »

Jack the Knife

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https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=39319.0

Here's that thread. The nice thing is these wheels are applicable to many cars, including the others you named.

I would monitor BaT and The MB Market because you never know when something like what you're looking for will show up.
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neelyrc

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. . . . . I have also thought about moving to a W108 280SEL 4.5, but I haven't ever driven one to know if I will like it. I have heard they are faster but do not handle as well. They are certainly handsome and more luxurious than the w114. . . .

I recommend giving the W108 280SE 4.5 or 280SEL 4.5 a try if you have the opportunity.  I think you will be well pleased with speed and handling after your W114 experience.
Ralph

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rwmastel

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I have considered ditching my 250c for a w114 280ce with fuel-injected M110 but (because they weren't sold in the US) the only one I've found is a wreck.

You'll have to search far and wide, but life is short so get what you really want.

I have also thought about moving to a W108 280SEL 4.5, but I haven't ever driven one to know if I will like it. I have heard they are faster but do not handle as well. They are certainly handsome and more luxurious than the w114.

Not rare, so you should find a few for sale in your state this summer just to test drive.
Rodd

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