Engine swap suggestions for a w113, keeping it into MB motor range

[lpeterssen]

Dear friends

I have a customer who has two w113 bodies and wanted to install on them engines coming from

1. Mercedes C36 AMG 1997 chassis w202
2. Mercedes C32 AMG 2002 chassis w203

After doing the obvious, which is to buy the wiring diagrams for those newer cars, have found that project is not feasible without spending thousand and thousands of dollar’s.

The main limitation is that Mercedes’ implemented from year 1991 the CANBUS technology on their passenger cars to reduce the complexity of the wiring harness on one side and also improve overall performance.

Car’s of this era which run on CANBUS have many small ECU’s that control so diverse things as for example one relay module (ECU) to control the radiator fan.

The instruments are all electronic and part of the CANBUS highway.

You have a relay module (ECU) to control the fuel pump, one for the ABS, another for the ESP (guess it’s the stability control) etc.

Not all the systems can be transplanted to the classic w113 without spending lots of money.

You can run the engine with a minimum set of independent ECU’s but then comes the fact that main engine ECU has to be reprogrammed or tricked to run on less ECU’s than on factory design.  When the main ECU does not receive the data form all the individual components, switches the engine to the LIMP mode, therefore making the engine swap useless.

People with expertise on ECU reprogramming are few in the world.

For all the mentioned above I suggested the customer to abort the initial approach.

Here I come to the MB W113 community to ask for suggestions on which engine swaps are desirable for the pagoda, to pass the word of wisdom to my customer.

I am open to any suggestion, but an LS SWAP.

Many thanks in advance for all your suggestions on the matter.

Best regards
Eng. Leonardo Peterssen

[Jack the Knife]

Not even one minute ago I posted this:
https://germancarsforsaleblog.com/1971-mercedes-benz-280sl-with-m104-swap/

I think the M104 is pretty much the best one can do. If you want to get very bold, then swap the entire chassis and drivetrain from a C32 AMG. John Olson did that on one of his coupes (or rather, his mechanic did) and he loves it.

Beyond that...
- M116
- M117
- M110 DOHC
- Turbocharged (or supercharged) M130 (this is being done by a guy in the unimog community, spoke w/ him a few weeks ago and he's nearly done)

My understanding with the V8 blocks is he would want one of the full aluminum blocks post-1978, ideally a high compression European-market motor. If one is doing this, I'd strongly consider modern fuel injection/fuel management. If he wants a manual transmission, there are adapters available now for the V8 engines as well as a 5-speed ZF available for the M110.

[MikeSimon]

The main issue with most V8s is the height. Very tight under the hood in the front.

[mdsalemi]

Leonardo,

ANY engine swap, regardless of which engine, which manufacturer etc. is going to be difficult and costly. If your client is afraid of "thousands of dollars" tell them to forget it. NOTHING like this is going to be cheap or easy, and even if its been done before there are all kinds of things that will run up the time and cost.

My friend Satish Tummala who runs Motorwerks Group in Commerce Michigan has done many engine swaps. A BMW M5 motor into a 3.0 CSi for example; a V12 ex SL600 into his own W126 coupe; the same engine into a second generation SLK.

All of these were exceedingly time consuming projects. In some cases, the ECU's are tied to the VIN at the factory, making use in another car or with other ECU systems problematic. These are problems with solutions, just not easy, quick or cheap. In some cases he was able to reprogram the ECUs in question. In other cases he had to order the ECU from Mercedes-Benz and they had to program in a new VIN prior to sending the part out. Nothing is easy! In the W126 a custom radiator needed to be made. Goodness knows what kind of modifications he needed to do on the SLK. I've seen all three of these project cars. They were done beautifully but they are for those with deep pockets and lots of time on their hands. A ready source of parts helps too; being in Venezuela makes things that much more complex.

Good luck to your clients!

[lpeterssen]

Dear Michael

Thanks for your comments.  The client is actually in UK.  He wanted me to do the custom harness.  After investigation, I told him that for those particular engines mentioned on the first post, forget about it, not possible with a limited budget.

Told him about the ECU, and that ECU was married to a particular VIN, and about all the difficulties related to not having all the CAN BUS independent modules installed on the classic car.

So I think he is now re evaluating the project that looked beautiful at the beginning, but now not so much.

It is better to come up with the truth from the beginning I think.

Thank you all for your nice comments and suggestions.

Best regards
L.Peterssen

[Jack the Knife]

Dear Michael

Thanks for your comments.  The client is actually in UK.  He wanted me to do the custom harness.  After investigation, I told him that for those particular engines mentioned on the first post, forget about it, not possible with a limited budget.

Told him about the ECU, and that ECU was married to a particular VIN, and about all the difficulties related to not having all the CAN BUS independent modules installed on the classic car.

So I think I he is now re evaluating the project that looked beautiful at the beginning, but now not so much.

It is better to come up with the truth from the beginning I think.

Thank you all for your nice comments and suggestions.

Best regards
L.Peterssen

He should strongly consider an electric conversion or one of the V8 conversions I mentioned. GGR here put such a V8 in his car and it is a very nice build.

[stickandrudderman]

I have a running 300TE 24V in my storage unit that was rotten before it got damaged in a storm....
Personally I think this would be a superb choice and I'd be happy to sell the whole car to your UK client so he'll have most of what he'll need to hand.

[lpeterssen]

Dear Collin

That was exactly the engine I suggested him to install, will send you per email his contact info so that you offer that engine coming from a 300TE 24V

Also remember to check on your storage for used w113 wiring harnesses.

Best regards
L.peterssen

[mdsalemi]

It is better to come up with the truth from the beginning I think.

Absolutely. It’s the right thing to do.