Author Topic: Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle  (Read 2086 times)

Jack the Knife

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Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle
« on: March 06, 2023, 23:35:27 »
I'm aware of the one being sold by DBDepot, but before I buy it, does anyone have any advice on the best place to get all the necessary bits and bobs for a rear axle rebuild? This 4.08 I have came out of one of the sedans, if it matters. Wouldn't mind sending it to someone here in Florida who can rebuild these if anyone can advise me on a proper place.
1964 230SL
2015 G550 """Professional"""

jeblack123

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Re: Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2023, 03:16:50 »
Reach out to Pierre Hedary in Titusville

http://www.pierrehedaryandco.com/

James (Eddie) Black

Jack the Knife

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Re: Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2023, 04:35:19 »
Reach out to Pierre Hedary in Titusville

http://www.pierrehedaryandco.com/

James (Eddie) Black

Thanks, Eddie! He seems like the right sort of guy, based on his website. I'll give him a call tomorrow. I appreciate it.
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mdsalemi

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Re: Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2023, 15:57:56 »
Reach out to Pierre Hedary in Titusville

http://www.pierrehedaryandco.com/


If I'm not mistaken, Pierre did an article in the past couple of years in The Star Magazine specifically on a rear axle rebuild. Didn't seem to be one of the things one would do without a lot of background knowledge which of course, Pierre has. Worth a phone call.

So...if I had an axle to rebuild, he may very well be one of the people worth sending it to. Since he's in Florida, just a bonus for you, Jack...
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid

Jack the Knife

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Re: Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2023, 19:46:47 »
Well he better be something else because he wanted $9000 to refurbish that axle. $1800 for bushings and mounts.
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dirkbalter

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Re: Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2023, 22:44:59 »
Well he better be something else because he wanted $9000 to refurbish that axle. $1800 for bushings and mounts.

Wow.
Dirk
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mdsalemi

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Re: Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2023, 12:47:35 »
Well he better be something else because he wanted $9000 to refurbish that axle. $1800 for bushings and mounts.

Nobody said he was cheap. Nothing is cheap on these cars—not parts, not labor, and certainly not highly specialized labor.

What you may find with many vendors is that they are so busy, very outrageous prices or times are offered.

When local AlexD was searching for the best R&R for his crashed Pagoda, a couple of those skilled enough to do the bodywork locally in NC were so priced plus wouldn’t give an estimate, only “give us a blank check”…which is why the work will be done in Michigan.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
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Jack the Knife

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Re: Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2023, 16:30:00 »
Nobody said he was cheap. Nothing is cheap on these cars—not parts, not labor, and certainly not highly specialized labor.
Marveling at an out-of-this-world quote doesn't imply any expectations of cheapness.

When local AlexD was searching for the best R&R for his crashed Pagoda, a couple of those skilled enough to do the bodywork locally in NC were so priced plus wouldn’t give an estimate, only “give us a blank check”…which is why the work will be done in Michigan.
He did call me and we spoke for a while, and yes, he became known for the axle rebuilds but doesn't really want to do them anymore, choosing instead to do more interesting things like house calls for 300SLs and all that. And hey, I totally get it. It was his assistant that gave the quote, but he said he really should have replied saying he's busy/doesn't want the work unless you're willing to really, really, really make it worth while. He gave some very good advice for my Panamericana ambitions and we talked about cylinder head swaps and all that kind of thing, also some interesting advice regarding using the cooling kit from Bud's Benz on the 230 amongst other things. Something he does often is upgrading the cooling systems for all the cars that go to him, a big deal in Florida as you can imagine, and I appreciate his advice.

He recommended Hellenic Auto in Pompano Beach and European Starr in Sarasota, both friends of his, for what I'm looking to do. I'll report back with results.
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2015 G550 """Professional"""

mdsalemi

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Re: Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2023, 15:49:13 »
If you can do house calls on 300SLs, well why would you do axle rebuilds on a pedestrian Pagoda? Last I heard he was specializing in diesels. Guess he's graduated on to the holy grail: 300SL. There's only so much time in a day...

As I said, very specialized knowledge doesn't come inexpensively.  There's a small number of highly specialized vendors out there--people like Pierre, places like Hjeltness or Paul Russel or others (such as Palo Alto Speedometer) that are just too busy to deal with anything other than that which will bring in a good solid job from folks not wont to complain about price. It's as I mentioned for the few body shops in the triangle area skilled enough to do AlexD's Pagoda. They just want a blank check, and don't bother them about time or estimates. When I had my Pagoda restored oh so many years ago, Paul Russel still did do things like Pagodas, and Palo Alto did all my instrumentation for an even then reasonable price in two weeks. Of course grill stars were $300 back then and available, definitely putting it into a "different time and place."

There's a lot of people here, and in other walks of life, who do have an expectation of price that doesn't mesh with reality. People here wailed at the outrageousness of a $300 grill star in 2001. They were shocked at the cost of chrome plating then, and it's only gotten more costly. I could go on, but hopefully the idea has been communicated. Nothing on a Pagoda is inexpensive. Nothing. It's also not a fast car, nor does it handle very well compared to other or modern "sports cars". You can--we can--often see the results of prior owners who didn't agree with the state of the art on parts prices or echancial service or labor rates: we have highly modified (in a bad way) kluges, which then become a project to "undo" and bring back to something akin to original. Conversion to carbs because they were shocked at the cost of a FI refurb. Engine transplants including the laughable Ford V8 because they didn't want to spend the money to do it correctly with one of the three properMB engines...installing any brake caliper that one could fit rather than the one that belongs...bad body work with bondo instead of sheet metal...the list goes on.

If you want a fast car or one that handles better, get a Porsche. They are more plentiful anyway. Want a fun car that won't break the bank, that's period vintage? Get an MG. Parts are inexpensive, plentiful and the mechanical bits on them are of ox-cart simplicity. Want something more modern that's all that? Get a Miata.

Good luck on your Carrera Panamericana ambitions. Worthy of a Pagoda World article if you can pull it off.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2023, 15:53:57 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid

Jack the Knife

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Re: Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2023, 21:38:53 »
If you want a fast car or one that handles better, get a Porsche. They are more plentiful anyway. Want a fun car that won't break the bank, that's period vintage? Get an MG. Parts are inexpensive, plentiful and the mechanical bits on them are of ox-cart simplicity. Want something more modern that's all that? Get a Miata.

That's not the point, and I really don't welcome this kind of commentary.

Good luck on your Carrera Panamericana ambitions. Worthy of a Pagoda World article if you can pull it off.

There have been a surprising number of W113s that have competed in the Panamericana over the years. In 2019, I counted at least 4. It really is a pretty good car for such a race, and one is at an advantage with the fuel injection, in my opinion. Successfully completing such races reliably without complete rebuilding of the car is truly a testament to the build quality and overall reliability of the model. Mechatronik even raced in it successfully, which more than proves their suspension components to me. Their shocks and springs will be here next Thursday, and I'm surely crying crocodile tears over that price, but KW makes a very good product. The springs weren't bad, "only" $700, it was the shocks (and shipping, of course). I will likely be adapting 11" W126 front brakes, something Mechatronik likewise did. Beyond that, it's really just reliability improvements. The '63 and '64 Spa-Sofia-Liege cars used an alternator, different wheels/tires, more robust springs, a welded-in-place top (won't be doing that), dropped some weight here and there through various means, probably loads of amphetamines, a stroked motor with 2.6L displacement, skid plates, and upgraded cooling. They won it not by being particularly fast but just by not braking down.
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2015 G550 """Professional"""

DaveB

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Re: Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2023, 22:28:40 »
He did call me and we spoke for a while..
We’ll I guess that was good of him to at least explain the situation.
Can you please share his opinion on the 250 cylinder head swap onto 230? And the 230 cooling?
DaveB
'65 US 230sl 4-speed, DB190

ja17

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Re: Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2023, 22:38:44 »
Hello Jack, Just drop a little V-6 out of an SLK 32 engine in it and start out with 350HP.  John Olson (SL Market Newsletter) did that on a 1966 Mercedes W111 coupe already.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
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Jack the Knife

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Re: Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2023, 23:23:28 »
Hello Jack, Just drop a little V-6 out of an SLK 32 engine in it and start out with 350HP.  John Olson (SL Market Newsletter) did that on a 1966 Mercedes W111 coupe already.

I would love to do that... but then they wouldn't let me compete anymore in the Panamericana. Maybe afterwards!

We’ll I guess that was good of him to at least explain the situation.
Can you please share his opinion on the 250 cylinder head swap onto 230? And the 230 cooling?

He actually asked *me* if that provides any material benefit, as he had read about Benz Dr's car and found it interesting. He has put such a cylinder head in several cars, as it doesn't hurt. I told him I would dyno the swap if I ever get around to it. He recommended I look into the Bud's Benz "cool kit" (https://www.budsbenz.com/catalog/230-250-280-sl/f-cooling/F210-200). He said some things above my head then about how to adapt such a kit to the M127 engine. I'm inclined to call Bud's Benz and ask them if they'd looked into this themselves. I'd appreciate some advise from the knowledgeable mechanics here on how one might achieve better cooling in the 127 (of course, Pierre said to just swap in an M130...)
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2015 G550 """Professional"""

DaveB

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Re: Complete Rebuild Kit for W108/W110/W111/W113 Axle
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2023, 03:41:23 »
Going off topic but here's a link to an earlier discussion of the 230SL factory heat exchanger option, which became standard equipment on the 250SL and 250SE:

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=4940.msg30962#msg30962
DaveB
'65 US 230sl 4-speed, DB190