Author Topic: Door glass guides and jaws.  (Read 2952 times)

Dave H

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Door glass guides and jaws.
« on: April 04, 2022, 21:53:07 »
Tell me I’m not going mad, has somebody actually glued felt guides into my window runners ?
I’m on the final leg of finishing the car and this completely threw me today, I kept going to make a cup of tea until the penny dropped.
Having bought a complete new set of guides jaws c/w inserts ready to glue onto the glass I couldn’t  fathom  how they could possibly work when all 4 channels were filled with these felt runners as shown. It actually looks like  it could of been done from factory.
Top marks to whoever did this bodge back in the day, it totally threw me .
Anybody ever see this before, they are really fixed in plus the windows actually work .
Can somebody please confirm this wasn’t a special one off trial by Mercedes’ to stop window rattles ?
I plan to remove these tomorrow and fit the jaws as per spec.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2022, 05:34:07 by Dave H »
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500

66andBlue

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Re: Door glass guides and jaws.
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2022, 04:56:18 »
Tell me I’m not going mad, has somebody actually glued felt guides into my window runners ?
...
No you are not going mad!
A previous owner of your car probably fell victim to Ray Paul's "window rattle elimination kit" highly recommended by one of our esteemed members here.  ;)
I fell down that rabbit hole too ... but my euphoria did not last long.  :-[
See:
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=4092.msg25028#msg25028

Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Pawel66

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Re: Door glass guides and jaws.
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2022, 05:54:51 »
Topic new to me, thank you for sharing, Alfred!

By the way: the rattle I had having diligently gone through slides adjustment was the chrome piece in front top door corner - it got a bit lose in its seat. I drove me mad and it took good couple of hours to find it. Fortunately before i put the door back together.

Also: do not forget the orange rings between the slides and the jaws.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
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Dave H

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Re: Door glass guides and jaws.
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2022, 07:56:19 »
Thank you Alfred for clearing that up, I had never heard of the Buds Benz kit.
I agree with you that the jaws and plastic inserts is the way to go , do the rails need lightly lubricating or is it just plastic on metal ?
Also Pawel, the small rubbers washers, they must go over the pins that locate into the holes in the back of the jaws right ? That’s the way I’m reading it .
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500

Pawel66

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Re: Door glass guides and jaws.
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2022, 10:51:36 »
Yes, these are the washers as you described.

I put some film of grease used on sliding roofs, not sure if correct, but made sense to me. But is on jaw-rail surface, not the slides-glass surface, as you would have dirty glass.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

wwheeler

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Re: Door glass guides and jaws.
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2022, 15:34:04 »
Even thought I don't have a Pagoda, I read this with interest and also the part from Ray Paul. I just did a complete overhaul of my window mechanism on my W128 coupe and was an adventure. As an aside, you guys are lucky you don't have a vent window. Wow, how complex can one make an assembly? This coupe has a combination of the plastic glass guides in the rear and the fuzzy window strip guide in the front. Works well although I found myself adjusting the width of the U channel some to fit the new plastic guide. Don't assume it will fit perfectly without a test fit. Shocking what a tight fit those are.

I am not using any kind of grease in the channel because it will attract dirt. Instead I zinc plated the channel and then sprayed a dry Teflon spray in the channel. That should be adequate as plastic on zinc should be slick enough.

I can see how the fuzzy strips on front and rear would not provide enough support. Plus if the glass rubs too hard on one the side of the fuzzy, tar will oooze out from the strip and it will get ion the glass edge. Now you have problems. No this strip is not meant to be a load bearing piece.       
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

Dave H

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Re: Door glass guides and jaws.
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2022, 18:35:30 »
Nice one Wallace, agree with comments on the fuzzy channel not being as supportive as the jaws.
Like the dry Teflon idea.
Also on researching the forum on ways to stick the jaws to the glass my mind is not yet made up , epoxy and felt V/S the clear silicon as per Joe Alexander’s idea .
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500

gordon

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Re: Door glass guides and jaws.
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2022, 21:00:21 »
I used Araldite rapid epoxy.  Stockinette cloth glued first to the glass then immediately the sliders .  I then wedged apiece of timber into the groove of the plastic spacers so that the glue didn't ooze  into the plastic slider.

Make sure you don't set the blocks too high up the glass , if you do they will hit the underside of the whiskers.

Good luck

Dave H

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Re: Door glass guides and jaws.
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2022, 09:41:04 »
Thanks Gordon.
Did it make a really solid fix ?
Did you glue the stockinette to the glass and then to the jaw all in one go and let it sit 24hours ?
I see what you mean about letting glue get into the little 3mm round hole that locates the pin on the back of the plastic slider, I’ll have to block them up somehow with a dowel or something taking care to remove the dowels before the glue sets I’m thinking .
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500

gordon

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Re: Door glass guides and jaws.
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2022, 17:39:02 »
Hi,        Yes, quite sold.  Araldite on the glass both sides, bed stockinette into the epoxy then immediately more epoxy on the cloth then push the jaws on, it's a snug fit. Clean off surplus adhesive and cloth  with a sharp blade when epoxy is starting to cure.  Wedge the plastic jaws apart to prevent adhesive finding its way behind the plastic jaws.

Enjoy setting up the glass in the doors, I did one in about an hour, the driver's side took all day.

Best wishes

Dave H

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Re: Door glass guides and jaws.
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2022, 12:30:18 »
Great explanation Gordon, I shall do as you say and post some pictures of the process .
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500

Dave H

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Re: Door glass guides and jaws.
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2022, 09:38:45 »
As you said Gordon, works a treat and solid as a rock, don’t know if it helped but I masked off and rubbed/roughed up ,the glass with wet and dry paper prior to applying the epoxy.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2022, 09:48:17 by Dave H »
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500