Author Topic: Air con  (Read 2262 times)

Merc_Girl

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Air con
« on: January 28, 2022, 19:10:44 »
Hi everyone

I know there have been a lot of posts about installing air con into our Pagodas, however………..

I was watching Fantom works (I love it!!!) and they were doing work on a 1964 pagoda, same year as Bessy. Old re run as seemed to be from 2015(who said we Brits live in the past?!? 🤣)

What I was rather surprised about was that on the programme, they said it was the MB dealerships that fitted the air con, not being available from MB, so they used the air con unit from a Ford mustang of the day. But when they fitted it the pulley wheel was rubbing again the sway bar, so they had to do a bit of wangling.

I’ve never heard of that, and they didn’t show a picture of the interior to see the difference.

Is anyone aware of this, or is this another ‘tv’ moment where things aren’t quite as they seem.

Thanks everyone
Katie
230SL

dirkbalter

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Re: Air con
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2022, 19:29:03 »
I saw that episode too and was wondering the same. Lol.
These guys love the drama if things don’t work out.
Dirk
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bogeyman

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Re: Air con
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2022, 22:36:04 »
My favorite part of that show was when they were raving about saving the "original white paint" while showing obvious overspray on the windshield seal.
Not to mention the dash was Tobacco Brown....
Rick Bogart
1970 280SL Black(040)/Parchment
1969 280SL Silver(180)/Green
1993 500E
1972 350SL
1995 E320 Cabrio

MikeSimon

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Re: Air con
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2022, 20:55:16 »
Yes and No. Air conditioning in cars was not very popular in the 60s/70s in Germany and components were not readily available from suppliers. Nobody, for example, made a compressor suitable for a passenger car, although "Linde" had the technology.
Mercedes "offered" A/C as a "partial option" where they prepped the car for installation with some components supplied in a box with the vehicle. The final installation was left to the delivery dealer who selected the missing key components from supplier in the region. This ensured, replacement and service parts were available when needed.
As far as I know, many cars ended up with "York" compressors.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

ja17

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Re: Air con
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2022, 01:19:30 »
As far as a"pulley rubbing", if the sub-frame mounts are bad and the front suspension is left to dangle when the car is on a two-post lift, all kinds of bad things will happen. Bad things like "pullies rubbing, fan blade rubbing, hose cutting  and terrible noises etc.can happen....
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2006 Mercedes Sprinter Van
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
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Merc_Girl

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Re: Air con
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2022, 22:45:34 »
Yes and No. Air conditioning in cars was not very popular in the 60s/70s in Germany and components were not readily available from suppliers. Nobody, for example, made a compressor suitable for a passenger car, although "Linde" had the technology.
Mercedes "offered" A/C as a "partial option" where they prepped the car for installation with some components supplied in a box with the vehicle. The final installation was left to the delivery dealer who selected the missing key components from supplier in the region. This ensured, replacement and service parts were available when needed.
As far as I know, many cars ended up with "York" compressors.

Now that’s interesting. Apologies for my ignorance, what’s a ‘York’ compressor? Is that a manufacturer or the name of the design of the compressor? I’ve only heard of Frigiking and another which the name I cannot remember offhand.
230SL

MikeSimon

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Re: Air con
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2022, 13:40:04 »
York was/is a U.S. compressor manufacturer. The design was an upright 1- or 2-cylinder compressor. Frigiking was a system manufacturer/integrator, like Behr (German), but I don't think they made compressors. I know Behr did not.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

lreppond

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Re: Air con
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2022, 18:53:06 »
I know there a plenty of Pagoda enthusiasts who can’t live without a/c.  My car came originally with a dealer installed FrigiKing set up.  At its best, it operated poorly, took power away from the car and always looked like what it was: a non stock add-on.  I think it distracted greatly from the lines of the dash.  My dad had it removed about a year or two after buying the car. Although I live in the SF Bay Area with a mild climate,  he lived in the Napa Valley and never missed it. 

Ive expressed this viewpoint before and many forum members disagree with me but I’d never reinstall the unit.   
~Len

1971 280 SL
576G red/251 Beige
4 speed manual
Becker Grand Prix stereo, USA
Automatic Antenna
Family owned since new (father —> son)

MikeSimon

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Re: Air con
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2022, 21:59:11 »


Ive expressed this viewpoint before and many forum members disagree with me but I’d never reinstall the unit.

I am one of the few who understands and wholeheartedly agrees with you. 8)
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

mclewis

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Re: Air con
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2022, 03:50:49 »
Len, I agree with you, also.  My car never had A/C, and I don’t miss it. If the weather is too hot for driving top down, I take my modern MB.
Marc Lewis
1968 280SL 728H/728H, 248, 746
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Garry

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Re: Air con
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2022, 05:02:08 »
I think a lot of members will agree with the no air in a 230sl.  I had  a dealer installed unit in my car that I removed within months of buying my car.  Never missed it other than when we drove through Death Valley CA on our US tour in 2019 and the temps were around 105-110f. Found it a tad hot on the few days we drove through there.
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Australia.
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
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Tomnistuff

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Re: Air con
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2022, 15:04:17 »
I am not quite convinced that the horsepower consumption is a really good reason for not naving AC.  With the AC off, there is precious little consumption, perhaps a fraction of a horsepower (belt and AC drive bearing losses).  Additionally, the total weight of my system cannot be more than the weight of one passenger.  But when it's really hot outside, to me, it's worth the weight and power loss to cruise in comfort and "relative" silence.  To each, his own.
As I have expressed before in discussions of other options, "I am a purist, but not to the extent of being a masochist."  I love my AC.
Tom Kizer
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

Garry

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Re: Air con
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2022, 21:42:20 »
Tom,

Its not the horse power loss that was the problem, it is the strain it put on the four bearing crankshaft in the 230SL
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Australia.
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4
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franjo_66

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Re: Air con
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2022, 23:16:48 »
I am currently looking at an electric A/C system for my 230SL
Eliminates worry about strain on front hub of crankshaft and it is non-invasive

The new kits are very effective and price-wise around the same if not less than buying an original MB set up or kits from Buds Benz etc
Franjo

1965 230SL Black/Auto/RHD
2005 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
1983 BMW 735i
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1982 Holden Statesman DeVille

Garry

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Re: Air con
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2022, 02:52:36 »
Frank,


Keep us informed of where you go with this as I may reconsider my options on Air if it was an electric driven compressor.
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Australia.
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4
2022 Volvo XC40 Full Electric Recharge,

Tomnistuff

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Re: Air con
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2022, 06:12:06 »
Tom,

Its not the horse power loss that was the problem, it is the strain it put on the four bearing crankshaft in the 230SL

You're undoubtedly right in terms of engine endurance.  The crankshaft torsional vibrations caused by driving that awful York two cylinder compressor plus the cyclic crankshaft bending loads from the belt loads pulsing as the crank rotates overlaid with one another in some difficult to imagine sequence must be hell on crankshaft fatigue.

I tried to prevent those problems by using a Sanden compressor.  I was impressed by the smoothness on my 6 cylinder Pagoda.  I had a York compressor on a 4.4 liter V12 Ferrari and it was noisy and shook with the AC on in spite of the 12 cylinders.

For those who worry about performance with the AC on, they can always put a compressor cutoff switch on the accelerator pedal at wide open throttle.

I hope I'm right about the lower risk to the crankshaft with the Sanden compressor.

Tom Kizer
« Last Edit: February 10, 2022, 06:16:42 by Tomnistuff »
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

Shvegel

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Re: Air con
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2022, 13:10:49 »
I have the Frigiking AC with all the relevant upgrades.  Single pass condenser, Sanden compressor and upgraded blower.  AC is charged with R134a to the proper level and the airflow to the passenger side grille has been restricted.  With all of that done it is cool with the top up in 95F heat.  It doesn't blow on you like a modern system does but you don't sweat.

AdelaidePagoda

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Re: Air con
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2022, 23:51:49 »
Has anyone used a 12V plug in or rechargeable battery powered AC unit suitable for Pagoda’s in summer? I do not want to add an aftermarket AC unit to my car (to preserve its originality), although for the few days a year where it might be nice, could add a plug in version to make the cabin cooler. I see some are advertised on eBay and Amazon for motor homes but would like some peer review feedback before buying one. If you have one and it works let us know. If they do not meet the needs, not cool enough, too noisy etc, also let us know.

Yes, I could always take the top off, and do, although as an option I may add a plug in unit and use the hardtop more frequently in hot weather.  If they do work it could be game changing for those of us that do not have factory air conditioning.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 06:27:45 by AdelaidePagoda »
Dave Cleghorn
1964 230SL 4SPD Power Steering
050 050 Black Soft top, Red Leather interior
Italian delivered/ Germany/ Florida/ Boston/ Sydney/ Adelaide (5th owner)

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AdelaidePagoda

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Re: Air con
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2022, 06:31:57 »
Very nice Dirkbalter, I might get a CB radio and Trucker hat as well 😂😂😂
Dave Cleghorn
1964 230SL 4SPD Power Steering
050 050 Black Soft top, Red Leather interior
Italian delivered/ Germany/ Florida/ Boston/ Sydney/ Adelaide (5th owner)

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Colingo

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Re: Air con
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2022, 14:55:36 »
I also need an electric compressor for AC (my car being converted to ev). I did a bit of a search on Google and found this:

https://www.t7design.co.uk/12cc-electric-a-c-scroll-compressor-12v-2-2kw-da8-fc8-51e.html?utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=googleshopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6Pej9dCo-gIVjdPtCh2-_QDbEAQYAyABEgJ1zfD_BwE

You'll need a good alternator though because it takes 37Amps!

Anyone have any opinions on the best fitting AC dash unit (evaporator) - one that doesn't look like some poor add-on? And then - where can I get one?

JamesL

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Re: Air con
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2022, 17:26:25 »
You may want to have a chat with the guys at Classic Retrofit - they may have what you need as they do stuff for old 911s and for EVs, neither of which have ample spare oomph for A/C. I know they've had stuff installed in cars converted by Electric Classic Cars (Vintage Voltage)
https://www.classicretrofit.com/collections/electric-air-conditioning
James L
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AdelaidePagoda

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Re: Air con
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2022, 06:55:29 »
Thanks James and Colingo. Both excellent suggestions if I go down that (the more invasive) path.

I am looking for a portable, plug and play or lithium battery powered unit that just cools (don’t need heat). This can be placed inside the cabin only when cooling is needed, for me most of summer as Australia gets up to 100F/ 40C frequently. Something like this, in fact this one may be ok? Just wanting to see if anyone has found a similar temporary solution.

https://myaussietech.com/products/small-portable-air-conditioner-12v?gclid=Cj0KCQjwj7CZBhDHARIsAPPWv3dCCldw__3oKBe4JR7STaGiqcXTGD6YUkUjx5WugMmdw-YDhqZo1PQaAn0oEALw_wcB

https://www.anacondastores.com/camping-hiking/power-cooling/coolers/zero-breeze-mark-ii-portable-air-conditioner/90173906?gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=Cj0KCQjwj7CZBhDHARIsAPPWv3ecIXYEv7tSG9iUjvn5DhgMGhHI7D2yDphmd_FqKCOo_vUDUm_D5_EaAtjvEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds



Dave Cleghorn
1964 230SL 4SPD Power Steering
050 050 Black Soft top, Red Leather interior
Italian delivered/ Germany/ Florida/ Boston/ Sydney/ Adelaide (5th owner)

Model S Tesla
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doitwright

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Re: Air con
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2022, 19:51:19 »
The 1st item you presented is basically known as a "swamp cooler" or a box of ice with a fan that blows air across the ice. Where does the condensate go? Probably wherever you place it.

The 2nd item is a mini refrigerant based A/C system. Still requires a condensate drain and a portal to evacuate the heated air that is transferred from the evaporator coil to the condenser.

In a typical automotive A/C system the evaporator is in the cabin and the condenser is in front of the radiator. A tube exits the evaporator housing  (usually through the floor) to allow condensed moisture to exit the cabin.
Frank Koronkiewicz
Willowbrook, Illinois

1970 280SL Originally Light Ivory - Now Anthracite Gray Metallic

AdelaidePagoda

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Re: Air con
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2022, 22:03:39 »
Thanks Frank, very wise advice. Not sure which way to go as it is not urgent, although I do know I would rather keep the car original than make changes the next custodian will not appreciate.
Any advice or recommendations on this topic is most welcome.
Dave Cleghorn
1964 230SL 4SPD Power Steering
050 050 Black Soft top, Red Leather interior
Italian delivered/ Germany/ Florida/ Boston/ Sydney/ Adelaide (5th owner)

Model S Tesla
Vespa