Author Topic: Bicycles, too...  (Read 7869 times)

mdsalemi

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Bicycles, too...
« on: September 29, 2021, 15:43:46 »
It's not just about cars for me...bicycles too. I have a custom made Italian racer, made by a famous frame maker in Milan in 1972, to my specs. It was new at the time and has thousands of miles on it, serving me as basic transportation for many years. I paid for much of my university studies (undergraduate at least) by repairing and selling bikes. Getting harder to find parts for!

During Covid I picked up repair and restoration as a sideline; local shops were "by appointment only" and charging an arm and a leg for the simplest of things; my neighbor waited two weeks to bring her son's small 20" bike in for an estimate, and they wanted $175 for repair. She brought it to me and I did it for an $11 cable and 20 minutes.

Just recently, someone brought in a vintage Raleigh Tourist bike. While I had seen hundreds of Raleigh, Rudge and other "English Racers" as they used to be called, all with 3-speed internal hub transmissions, I'd never seen one with rod or stirrup brakes. The astute members of our forum from the Netherlands may recognize these as the standard on the Dutch utility bikes prevalent in the 70s and 80s. I understand they are still used on some bikes made in India. The brakes pull up on the underside of the rim. The tires are a 28" variety all but unheard of in the USA, but I did find a supplier...with two in stock. Due to the rims, only low pressures (50 PSI) can be used on the tires.

This Raleigh came to me mostly together, mostly rusted, and nothing worked on it. It was a sympathetic restoration replacing only what was necessary. The worst part of it was one fixing bolt came up missing a nut. No big deal unless you are working on something British from that era: it was a Whitworth thread! Sourcing the fixing bolt or nut would be impossible or costly, so I fabricated one out of a stainless steel bolt. Using many of the same things I use on the Pagoda, the paint polished up nicely.

The bike has turned out to be beautiful. I wouldn't want to ride it regularly; the tires are a bizarre size hard to find in the USA; the rims would be impossible to replace except at great cost. Once an internal gear breaks in the hub, it's all over. Parts and knowledge to repair all but gone. But it is now fully functioning and quite pretty.

Yes, that's my Pagoda back there!
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
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Bonnyboy

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2021, 16:34:48 »
I found the same bike in the back of a trailer when a guy was moving approx. 15 years back  -  he sold it to me - I polished the shiny bits and added a bit more paint - found some tires and then gave it to a buddy who had it at the foot of his bed until his wife made him move it. 

I had just finished a resurrection of a early BSA Bantam so just happened to have the correct taps and dies to chase threads.  Only needed to braze on hole and retap. 

I ran a bicycle shop to pay for University but ended up buying motorcycles and a BMW 2002 instead of spending it on school.

Ian
69 280SL
65 F-100
73 CB750K
75 MGB
78 FLH
82 CB750SC
94 FLHTCU
08 NPS50

mdsalemi

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2021, 16:59:24 »
This was a poster child for what went wrong with the British car and bicycle industry. A total kluge of both standard English, some metric, and that one Whitworth nut I found. No consistency. In addition, some of the tolerances were, shall we say, abysmal. I had several bolts for example that were an 11mm head, except one of them in the series...lots of crazy stuff like that.

Many don't know but Raleigh's Nottingham Works was fully integrated. The "transmissions"--3 or 5 speed internal hubs made by Sturmey Archer, was owned by Raleigh. So was the Brooks molded leather saddle. Reynolds tubing? Owned by Raleigh. When they sold out, what was left was junk.

https://sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer.html

Anyway, it's a nice, vintage bike, and I had fun with it.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
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Cees Klumper

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2021, 04:21:34 »
Nice Raleigh Mike. But as to that type of brake system, I never saw that on a Dutch made bike. We either had one brake inside the rear wheel that you activated by pedaling backwards (the most common and cheapest system, kind of a drum brake that worked with 'metal on metal' to brake); hand-activated drum brakes, or hand activated brakes like the ones still used on racing bikes, with the rubber 'brake pads' being applied to the sides of the rims.
I believe the statistic on Dutch bicycle ownership is that it's still 1.X, meaning each Dutch person on average has more than one bicycle. I maintained one in Amsterdam for about 6 years after moving to Switzerland, just so that I could always get around the city anytime I visited.

About two years ago I bought a very nice Cannondale racing bike from around 1991 and quickly found out that, even from that era, or even more recent than that, parts are already very difficult to find. I had to get shoes from Belgium for example, just to fit the cleats system on that 1991 (American made) bicycle.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic
1968 Ford Mustang 302 V8
1961 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Coupe 1600
1962 FIAT 1500S OSCA convertible
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3
1983 Porsche 944 2.5
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Peter van Es

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2021, 08:40:58 »
Second that. We did have rod actuated brakes but they would typically be drum brakes, not friction brakes. And yes, the Sturmei-Archer three speed gear.

That Sheldon Browns site -- I used to look that up for bike maintenance. And yes, I have two bikes!
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mdsalemi

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2021, 16:03:00 »
Tonight, that old Raleigh will be picked up by its owner, and gifted to his son. It's actually his son's bike, and the father decided to have it restored as a surprise.

Those rod actuated brakes were most definitely found on Dutch utility bikes of the 1960s and 70s; the kind of black bicycles, usually with a fully enclosed chain guard to allow people to ride to work w/o getting any grease on a skirt or trousers. The bikes were most often left outside in the Dutch weather, and the rod brakes were actually quite robust, needing little once adjusted, and standing up to all kinds of messy weather. The ones pictured in my photos were friction rim style, not drum, and perhaps the only real problem with these was the needed rim design doesn't allow for high pressure tires. 50 pounds/ 3.5 bar is it. But as the owners were not racing, the simple commutes they did were not affected by such things as that.

In all the years I worked on Raleighs, I'd never seen one--even in the 1970s--with the rod brakes. We once had a full Sturmey-Archer parts kit, with all the little gears, bearings, bushings, etc. needed to repair their broken internal hub transmissions. Like the British cars before them, this kind of hub/transmission could barely stand up to long-term use in the USA, and were frequently breaking. Interesting that Sachs--the German firm--made a similar unit but like German and Dutch bikes, never had any significant presence in the USA. I can only imagine that a Sachs 3 or 5 speed internal hub transmission was superior to the British.

I too, have two bikes. My Italian is a totally vintage road racer, updated for modern road use, not racing. How I got that was interesting. In 1971 I returned from Europe with a Peugeot PX8, and a few months later, my brother "bested me" by getting a fancy Italian bike, a Legnano, from the famous Tom Avenia cycle shop in Manhattan. I decided that I needed the same. So, on a trip to Milan in the summer of '72, I called the Legnano factory and asked, in my rudimentary Italian, "Where in Milano can I buy a Legnano Corsa bicycle?" The lady on the other end just gave me an address, and unbeknownst to the then 16 year old, it was that of the famous frame maker for the Dreher racing team, Umberto Mascheroni, also known as "Lupo". He fitted me by pulling out a bike made for Roger deVlaeminck, a famous Belgian rider on the Dreher team. Dreher had a good team in 1972, with notables such as DeVlaeminck, Ole Ritter, Patrick Sercu, and more. It was in existence for just the 1972 season, and Lupo made the bikes and maintained them; it later became the Brooklyn team. He took measurements, and told me to return in two weeks. I did, and picked up a beautiful Lupo designed for road racing. Super short wheel base, and extremely light for the time, I used the bike for commuting through college, and pleasure riding later. As I aged the short gearing needed changing, and like Cees has discovered, finding parts was a challenge. I did find a wide range Campagnolo Rally rear changer, and a wider cluster to make hills a bit easier for this aging body. When I broke a spoke, I found someone who had a whole box of the Trois Etoile stainless steel spokes in the right size and bought the entire box. Seems finding obscure parts is a skill for cars and bikes alike.

Right now my Lupo needs another round of maintenance...and the roads are a LOT better here in NC. I need to service the headset, change the grips, and remove the old black anodizing from the crankset (any ideas on that?) I don't "need" my Trek mountain bike any longer, a bike I bought some years back when the roads in Michigan got so bad that I could barely ride them with the Lupo. So not only does my body appreciate the well maintained roads here, so do both my bicycles AND my Pagoda!

While I've always ridden with toe clips, Cees, I've never advanced to cleated pedals or shoes. But I can understand the issues...
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
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David Robinson

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2021, 12:03:33 »
Nice high nelly Mike. Ride it lots. Plenty of spares on this side of the pond which we can get for you.

Mike Hughes

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2023, 04:48:58 »
This discussion of bicycles reminded me that I have had a Raleigh Grand Prix hanging from the rafters of one of my garages for many years.

When I lived in Taiwan in the 1960's I had a Katakura Silk 10 speed. The original paint began to flake off after a few months so I took the bike apart and had the frame prepped and painted at a local body shop in silver metal flake.  After it cured I took it back to them and had them thin out some candy apple red and spray it over the silver.  They thought I was crazy until they saw the result, which looked really cool in bright sunlight.  A little while after we returned to the States in 1968 the bike was stolen and I was heartbroken. 

In the spring of 1969 my mom took me to a bike shop near the GW Parkway bike path that had recently been completed between Mt. Vernon and Old Town Alexandria and bought me this White Raleigh Grand Prix. I rode it for a year until I got my driver's license and then put it away.  When Lucy and I bought our house, it migrated from my folk's basement to our garage and was ridden occasionally, then hung up on hooks from the rafters for the next few decades.  About 15 years ago I took it down and put a modern gel pad seat on it, hoping to that I might be able to ride around the neighborhood as walking was becoming increasingly painful.  That didn't work out, so up on the hooks it went again. 

Now we have sold our home of 46 years and I have two new knees, so the Raleigh is making the move with us to our home in the mountains. At the moment this 50+ year old bike still sports its original tires and tubes and I still have the original English leather seat (Wrights of Birmingham and hard as a rock!).The Raleigh has an elegance that our modern mountain bikes seem to lack.  If it proves unsuitable for the roads here in the mountains, I'll mount it on the wall of the garage and admire it for the well-preserved work of art that it has become. 
- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
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DaveB

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2023, 05:56:13 »
I had a couple of nice older road bikes like those but now ride this fixed gear bike and like it a lot.
DaveB
'65 US 230sl 4-speed, DB190

mdsalemi

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2023, 18:40:29 »
Hmm...one of our perhaps newer or lurking members, made a post a few weeks ago to this thread, and then deleted it. No idea why.

Since this was an old post that the unnamed member had revived, it then brought a couple of new posts by Mike Hughes and DaveB.

I remember the old Raleigh Grand Prix. This is the kind of bike (I say with my 16 year old nose in the air) that we tried to get away from. That and the Schwinns which had extremely heavy road gear including all steel cottered cranksets.

Shortly after I wrote the post on September 30, 2021, I completely disassembled my Lupo Italian road racing bike and totally rebuilt/refurbished it. Some things amaze me. The Campagnolo side pull brakes are a marvel; a piece of art and mechanical genius that was just a perfect design. Even after all these decades later, the brakes came apart easily, went back together easily, and adjusted perfectly. I compare that to a lot of newer brake designs all of which are flawed. Don't even get me started on the infernal "V-Brakes". A kluge of a design that defies accurate adjustment.

I wish I had the strength and energy to survive with a fixed-gear bike. Alas, I do not.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
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badali

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2023, 21:55:13 »
Here are some pictures of my Dad's early 1950s bicycle.  He sadly passed away in 2019 and my Mom still has his bike.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
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mdsalemi

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2023, 12:24:10 »
Brad—that’s a beautiful period classic!
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
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DaveB

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2023, 15:20:52 »
Nice!

Michael - show us the brakes!
Mine also has a Campagnolo brake, 1990s.
DaveB
'65 US 230sl 4-speed, DB190

mdsalemi

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2023, 16:01:32 »
Here are "before" and "after" photos of one of the brakes. Back in the early 1970s, "before it was cool", my brother and I took all the aluminum bits off of our bikes and had them black anodized at a metal finisher in Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA. This created black components on the bikes before the rest of the industry caught on (now it's kind of standard). The look was good, but after four decades and more, the anodizing began to fade and wear. So part of my restoration back in the autumn of 2021 was removing the old anodizing and restoring the look back to the polished aluminum it originally had.

The process for removing the anodizing was soaking the parts in a strong degreaser. I use one available from a warehouse store here, but the closest name brand equivalent would be ZEP purple degreaser. It took overnight and then a bit of "elbow grease" on the metal polish.

There are 28 individual parts on a Campagnolo Nuovo Record "side pull" caliper brake. It came apart quite easily and went back together in a snap. When re-installing it adjusted dead nuts perfectly, behaving exactly the way it's supposed to. I've worked on thousands of bikes over the years and nothing comes close to this gem; it's about as perfect a brake as ever designed and manufactured.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2023, 16:05:52 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid

Bonnyboy

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2023, 21:49:05 »
Michael,  I turned one of my racing frames into a fixy and with messed up knees it quickly went on the wall as art -  then I got my knees replaced and after 6 months I tried it again and still too much pressure so I turned it into a 1 speed with a freewheeling rear sprocket.   When its sitting outside the coffee shop the "cool kids" won't know its not a fixy and when you get on it and ride away they will think you are one "cool dude". 

I echo your comments on the older Campagnolo Record parts.   The first time I ran into them I was fixing a bike for a couple who were cycing up to alaska and the bike needed a tuneup.   It was the first time I played with the Campagnolo brand and I felt like a super hero getting everything lined up perfectly -  then I went back to a trashed KMart special and my ego was damaged once again. 

Sort of like working on our Pagodas compared to my Neighbour's old Hyundai Pony . 
Ian
69 280SL
65 F-100
73 CB750K
75 MGB
78 FLH
82 CB750SC
94 FLHTCU
08 NPS50

Peter van Es

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2023, 11:23:24 »
Hmm...one of our perhaps newer or lurking members, made a post a few weeks ago to this thread, and then deleted it. No idea why.

It was a spam post with a link to an advertising site. I deleted the post, blocked the poster, reported him to https://www.stopforumspam.com and then deleted his account.

You are welcome!
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mdsalemi

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2023, 12:42:01 »
...It was a spam post...You are welcome!

Well thank you! I had not read the entire post, just skimmed it on my phone, and saw mention and referral to the topic in the thread. Was planning on reading it in detail later and it was gone. Had not seen it in full on my computer where I can read an entire post without flipping a phone around and scrolling.

Kind of peculiar that a post from 2021 was chosen by a spammer as a reply to topic...it was buried kind of far down in there.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
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66andBlue

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2023, 18:28:36 »
Well, I rode an English "hand built" bike for a number of years until the coastal highway to my place of work became too dangerous with speeding cars.
I wonder how many of our English members remember that brand.
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
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mdsalemi

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2023, 19:22:22 »
Wow! a DAWES. I remember those, but can honestly say I have not heard or seen of one in many decades. Yours is a "later model" when the Brits figured out that their own components were junk. Dawes smartly used Maeda Suntour, a very high quality Japanese brand, a quiet second to Shimano. Now, long gone. My Italian racing bike has a Suntour cog on it.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid

Peter van Es

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2023, 11:15:44 »
https://www.srsuntour.com/home/ moves on. I have one of their parts on one of my bikes... notably a suspension fork
1970 280SL. System Admin of the site. Please do not mail or PM me questions on Pagoda's... I'm not likely to know the answer.  Please post on the forum instead!

mdsalemi

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2023, 12:59:45 »
https://www.srsuntour.com/home/ moves on. I have one of their parts on one of my bikes... notably a suspension fork

Alas, it’s a different company. The original went bankrupt, in 1988. It was originally a very innovative Japanese company. They were purchased by a Taiwanese company, and now the only thing that remains is part of the name. A sad and to a great company.

During the big bike boom in the USA, back in the 1970s, Shimano and SunTour quickly turned from inexpensive and mundane Japanese components, to innovative and high quality. It was the Taiwanese that were the low end, including a company called Sakae. That’s who bought the Suntour name.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 13:06:17 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid

Peter van Es

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2023, 13:24:44 »
I stand corrected... it was Suntour in the name though...
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Raymond

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2023, 14:18:09 »
Michael, FWIW Threaded Fasteners, here in Jacksonville, has a stock of a lot of British threaded bolts.  He supplies them to a lot of vintage British car collectors in our region.  It's an old school family business.  I've been able to source a few oddball metric screws for some of our video gear, as well as nuts and bolts for my Pagoda. 
Ray
'68 280SL 5-spd "California" Coupe

mdsalemi

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2023, 13:32:52 »
Michael, FWIW Threaded Fasteners, here in Jacksonville, has a stock of a lot of British threaded bolts.

Good to know! Thanks!

Go to the very first post in this thread and you’ll see what I needed. It may have a name but I don’t know what. A “rod keeper bolt”? Dunno. Wasn’t that difficult to fabricate but would have been easier had I had a center drill bit (which my dad sent me later)
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2022 Ford Escape Hybrid
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JamesL

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Re: Bicycles, too...
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2023, 20:02:08 »
I did a restomod of a Moulton Mk3 about 10 years ago. Stripped it bare, rebuilt the whole thing with all new modern parts after powdercoating the frame. It was quite straightforward apart from the bottom bracket. Raleigh had bought Moulton at that point and decided on the weirdest sizing (pretty much unique) for the BB. Took me ages to work up a solution (oddly, from the US)
Yes, I regret selling it, as now I'd put a Brompton E conversion on the front wheel
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather