New Pagoda Owner problem with starting

[youngtimersgarage]

Hey guys proud new owner of a 1964 Mercedes 230SL. The car was sitting for 20 years until I stumbled upon it, the gentlemen I bought it from was in a band off boulevard. He purchased the car from Florida from the original owner in 1979. I am the third owner. Heres what I have done to try and get it running.

dropped fuel tank had it cleaned and resealed. Changed fuel filter, rebuilt fuel pump. The old fuel was like varnish and and tar. Cleaned out the main line and return fuel line. changed all fluids, waterpump, thermostat, belts, fi pump oil as well as fuel hoses and coolant hoses. When putting the new plugs in and firing the car up for the first time it ran very rich and would stall. It then would not want to start. I then got another new fuel filter and new fuel injectors and cleaned of the fuel injection lines. I checked all of the new plugs and they were black except cylinder 2 and 4. Fuel was not getting to cylinder 2 and 4 so I the took the tops off the fi pump and hand cranked the engine and two of the pistons were getting stuck. after some cleaning and hand cranking the pistons freed up. the car fired up after cranking for a while and spark plugs on cylinder 2 and 4 were black like all of the others.

Now the car starts after cranking for a long time and it will run for 2 min and the stall. when running if I give the car gas it will not respond and stall this does not happen every time the car is running. I also adjusted the mixture on the back of the fi pump it was turned full right i moved it 12 clicks left and there was no noticeable difference. I tested the compression on the cylinders but my tester was showing 120 on every cylinder but bouncing around so I think my tester is broken ? I just want to drive this thing already haha

your help is greatly appreciated!

[ja17]

Make sure the rack is free in the injection pump. You can take the little round cover off the front of the IP and view it move in and out depending on throttle position and rpms. It must move back and fourth freely. Next the WRD is most likely stuck. This is a warm up regulator (called warm running device WRD), mounted on the back top of the  IP. It regulates fuel and air during the engine warming period. It is probably stuck and if so can cause your rich running problems. Avoid adjusting the injection pump mixture until all else is corrected. Ask questions and dig into the vast amount of information on these items on this site.

[youngtimersgarage]

Hello and thank you for your response. I took the wrd apart and cleaned it . There was some gasket maker applied there is that common? There was no copper washer . If I reassemble do i need anything ? Also i do not see a nut at the front of my pump to be able to crank the shaft . There were two wires hanging loose when I got the car they were for the solenoid on the back of the pump i connected them not sure if the right way pictures attached. The car still is not starting

[mrfatboy]

Here is the picture of the rack access port. Some pumps have a nut covering it others have a removable rubber cap.

You can find more details in the tech manual.

https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Fuel/Injection

[youngtimersgarage]

Ok got it, I opened that threaded cap woth a 10mm socket and watched as someone cranked the motor and there was no back and forth movement

[mrfatboy]

I think the rack is buried in there and you will not see it unless you screw in a 4 or 5mm diameter rod that is about 40mm long to extend it.

[youngtimersgarage]

Ok i was able to break the shaft
Free it travels back and forth but i have a short screw so im not sure if its still not getting stuck further back. The car fired right up no hesitation. But eventually stalls. So it sounds like somthing in that pump is still getting stuck or sticking. Since there is now fuel in the pump what can I do to try and free this thing up. I have had all the pistons traveling prior perhaps they are getting stuck again. So close haha

[mrfatboy]

How soon does it stall?  Can you keep the engine going at higher revs? After it stalls can you start it right up again?

[youngtimersgarage]

I was able to start it right up after i moved the position of the shaft. I gave it gas it sputtered but did rev a bit higher then ran and then died. Cranked again fired up was about to die gave it gas and it choked out. Seems like moving the shaft changes the way it fires. Prior to any of this when the shaft was stuck you could hardly get it to fire after cranking for a very long time.

I also cleaned that wrd and teated the thermo and it works . I switched the wiring on the solenoid too i think i had it wrong not sure which side brown and black go to.

[Cees Klumper]

Hesitate to mention this since I don't know that much about this, but did the fuel tank refinishing place know about the intricacies of this particular design tank? The flower pot? Did they open it all the way up? Because it sounds like it could be a fuel starvation issue.

[Jordan]

You say you cleaned the WRD but did you test to see if it is actually working?  Take the filter off the front of the WRD.  Start the car cold and then tap your finger over the hole where the filter screws in.  You should fell a suction.  As the car warms up the suction will decrease and eventually there will be no suction when the engine has warmed up.  If you get no suction or the suction doesn't go away when the engine warms up you know it isn't working correctly.

[youngtimersgarage]

I hope they did as they have been doing it for 30 years its an oldschool place. He put two access holes and it took about 3 weeks as he didnt want to rush it. But then again id have to see inside the tank myself

[youngtimersgarage]

Update , today I took the top of the pump apart again and confirmed the pistons were moving up and down when engine cranked. The rack on the front of the ip moves them left to right , my question is does that rack have a stopping/locking point . When the engine is cranked should that rack move back and forth or lock into place.

I removed the screen in the fuel pump and it was cakes up cleaned it out reinstalled and still the cars not cranking.

Checked compression all cylinders good. Checked spark on all plugs and they were good. Before i had all new plugs fouled and the car would run for a bit and then die. Now i have cylinder 4 with a clean plug.

I checked all lines and not all lines were getting fuel at the injectors. I cracked the line at pump and no fuel ! I had fuel at the pump before.

On top of all this there is coolant coming out of the csv into my throttle body and im thinking this is chocking the car out so weird.

So close yet so far. Not sure what to do next pull the pump to rebuild but yet it seems all is freed up and the car did fire up right away when I freed the rack. Losing sleep over here haha

[mrfatboy]

The rack is constantly moving forward and backward depending on the engine fuel needs. More fuel forward , less fuel backwards.

Coolant coming out of CSV??  That’s an issue.

[youngtimersgarage]

Ok so then somthing is still stuck in my pump ? because the rack only moved a little bit when cranking then never moved but the pistons would continue moving when cranking. Yes the coolant is an issue i know there is a coolant line going to the csv but why the hell did it start pissing fluid out if nowhere ? I also took off the solenoid on the back of the ip to make sure it was pushed it so it does not break off as I have heard they do. Weird thing is the car was running off of a gas canister but misfiring prior to reinstalling the cleaned and resealed tank.

[jim 56]

I usually don't jump into these things as there are people on this site that have sooooo much more knowledge then I do.That said I do not see if you checked the fuel pressure.I installed a gauge in the feed line.Read the tech manual and other posts.You need at least 12 psi to pump.You also have to check the return line.I checked mine at the tank.You should fill a 1 liter bottle in 15 seconds.

[youngtimersgarage]

Can anyone else shed some light on this topic

[jim 56]

I believe this is in the tech manual.I had something similar I would get fuel to some cylinders but not others.I believe it was JA17
who replied that might be my problem.I only had 10 psi or so.I had fuel pump rewound new seals brushes etc..Now I had 14 PSI at inlet to injector pump.I also had the check valve in the return out of the injection pump was all gummed up.(I don't know if your injection pump has this).Now it runs.

[ja17]

Good advice from jim 56, check the fuel pressure and volume. In addition to the screen in the fuel tank, there is another small screen in the intake fitting of the electric fuel pump on all except the earliest pumps. This screen is most likely plugged if your tank was clogged.

[youngtimersgarage]

update, the fuel pressure at the cold start valve is at 12psi but I noticed that my points are pitted so that may be a big problem. I will be replacing that tmrw and hopefully that will fix the problem. I cleaned out the filter on the electric fuel pump and the screen in the tank is new., I also replaced the fuel filter.

[jim 56]

you should still check for the 1 liter in 15 seconds out of the fip

[youngtimersgarage]

Jim, I will also check that today

[Pawel66]

Check it at the end of return line. Give the pump 5-10 minutes of work to warm up.

[youngtimersgarage]

UPDATE 


So everything is gone over and the problem lies within the pump. For the 5th time took the top of the fi pump apart then poored laquer thinner and let it sit for 2 days. Cleaned all of that out and then changed the oil in the pump as well. The car fired up when moving the rack a certain position. All of the pistons are free etc. The car ran for an hour I drove it up and down the driveway and then it died. Trouble firing once again unless changing the position for the rack on the fi pump. the rock travels lightly back and fourth and when you hit the throttle linkage it moved more. It did get firmly stuck once.  Am I out of options does the pump have to come out or could it be something else ?

[FresnoBob]

I highly recommend having your pump rebuilt by Gus at Pacific Fuel Injection - (650) 588-8880.  He is in South San Francisco and the most knowledgeable guy in the US and he will totally rebuild and test your pump for roughly $2k.  I just had mine rebuilt and the car runs fantastically, after also sitting for 24 years.  I also suggest clearing the cold start valve, pulling it away from the manifold and putting a large ziplock bag around it and try starting your car.  The fuel should make a round spray pattern.  If not, your nozzles could be clogged. 

Good luck!