Author Topic: Sparkplug discontinued?  (Read 8053 times)

col320ce

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Sparkplug discontinued?
« on: June 06, 2020, 09:37:18 »
https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=9397

Are nkg also stopping manufacturing of the non resistor plugs?

Time to stock up
Col

1964 230SL
1965 250SE coupe
1993 320CE Sportline

mrfatboy

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2020, 09:42:15 »
Your link is broken.
1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
Signal Red
4 Speed

Pawel66

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2020, 09:45:05 »
Yep, does not work...
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

Alex D

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2020, 10:51:53 »
Yes, I spoke to NGK customer service, they said they are no longer producing non resistor spark plugs, once the exisiting inventory is gone, it's gone.
Alex D
1967 250 SL
Original 140K mi
181 Light Beige, with  112 Turquoise Interior

badali

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2020, 11:56:02 »
W7DC Bosch are still available many places.  I just did a google search.  I have been using them.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
2022 GLC 300 4 Matic

stickandrudderman

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2020, 12:25:46 »
Resistor plugs work just fine.

ja17

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2020, 22:10:00 »
Bosch started suppling the W7DC (non-resistor) spark plugs again. Most likely you will have to get lucky to find them or order them from the dealer. There is a MB part number assigned to them, anybody?

Using resistor plugs will work but you add 5,000 ohm resistance to each spark plug circuit. The rotor is 5,000 ohms, the spark plug wire end at the distributor is 1,000 ohms, the spark plug wire end at the spark plug is 1,000 or 5,000 ohm and now with the resistor plugs you add another 5,000 ohms.  Early factory non-transistorized ignitions spec maximum resistance in each spark plug circuit to 13,000 ohms. So with everything new you are already near or over the factory limit and have no cushion for age and wear  of parts and weather conditions. At the very least you have lost all of your safety margin. Now if you have carbon spark plug wires or carbon coil wire you add a lot more resistance on top of that. Later W113 cars with factory electronic ignitions had a higher voltage and were allowed 19,000 ohm resistance per spark plug circuit. Most of these cars can use the 5,000 ohm spark plug wire ends. If you have to use resistor spark plugs you should upgrade your ignition coil and ballast resistor to supply more voltage. In the end, these engines were designed to use non-resistor spark plugs with the original ignition systems. The next time you have a cold start on a damp cold morning you'll be glad you had a hotter spark from less resistance or a hotter ignition.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

Pawel66

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2020, 08:08:12 »
Mercedes part number for Bosch W7DCO is A 003 159 12 03. It can be found under Air Pollution Control parts list.
Mercedes part number for Bosch W5DCO is A 003 159 14 03.

I would, however, be careful - if a dealer don't have this particular plug, they will give you replacement.

I think it is easier to find the plugs we are looking for in the stores specializing in motorbike parts.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 08:31:52 by Pawel66 »
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

Montreal V8

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2020, 18:15:25 »

    The main problem I foresee is is for owners of vintage/ classic, magneto equipped motorcycles, as resistor plugs put an extra load on the armature winding, and a reduced spark intensity.

Pawel66

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2020, 18:16:38 »
I think they will re-appear in a box called "Classic", triple the price.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

wwheeler

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2020, 03:51:25 »
I think Pawel has it right. Bringing a product back like that is all based on demand though. If the resistor plugs don't end up creating a big issue and no one complains, you will never see another non-resistor plug from NGK. But if enough people complain......yep triple the price.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

badali

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2020, 12:01:34 »
Just buy the W7DC.  They can still be found.
Brad

1961 220 Sb
1966 230 SL
2019 E 450 4 Matic
2022 GLC 300 4 Matic

wwheeler

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2020, 13:43:54 »
I bought a few more just in case but I use the W8DC. Just a bit hotter. Still they are $8/ea and that ends up being being $50 a set of six. Not cheap by any means. But I have enough to last me for a very long time now. Thanks for the tip about NGK.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

Saman 280SL

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2020, 16:46:32 »
If you have converted to a Petronix electronic ignition system it's ok to use non-resistor?
1969 280SL 050 Cognac
1970 280SL 180 Black
1971 280SE 3.5 180 Black 111
1970 280SE  LG 904 Cognac 111
1970 280SE LG 180 Bamboo 111
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neelyrc

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2020, 01:44:39 »
I picked up a set of the NKGs yesterday and another set today.  Thirty bucks well spent.  With a third set still on my parts shelf I think I am fixed for a while.
Ralph

1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
1972 Mercedes-Benz 280SEL 4.5
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
Italy
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mrfatboy

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2020, 01:46:40 »
🤣 I can't resist 🤣
1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
Signal Red
4 Speed

kampala

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2020, 02:05:29 »
Is this going to be like toilet paper?  Are we gonna have a stockpiling of plugs?  Is Costco going to limit them to one 48 pack per family?

A while back rockauto was selling the plugs I like ( ngk 7832), for about a $1.10  so I picked up enough to get me through many years for both cars.   These are the hotter bp5es.

250sl - later - manual
280sl - 1971 - Auto - LSD

Aslam

Paul & Dolly

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2020, 08:36:54 »

I have used NGK BP5ES successfully for a while now, the box says NGK BP5ES (6511)  ,
Is there any difference with NGK BP5ES (7832) ?

If you search for NGK 6511 or 7832 you get BP5ES
Any one any idea why ? or is it that 6511 and 7832 are just numbers used in different markets ?

6511 are still easily available  in UK for around £2.00 a plug.

Any thoughts ?
Paul (located in Cardiff - Wales - UK)
1967 Early 250 SL (Auto) White
Mitsubishi i Car
Toyota RAV 4  Hybrid AWD
1936 Alvis Firebird (Gone............)

WRe

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2020, 09:37:11 »
Hi,
it's really confusing!

If you look in the official European NGK catalogues BP5ES spark plugs have the number "6511".
Same spark plug in US catalogues has "7832".

If you look in the different NGK part finders
European https://www.ngkntk.com/part-finder/produktfinder/PKW/ZK_BENZINER/ and
US: https://ngksparkplugs.com/en/part-finder) you'll find different recommendations for a standard spark plug,
e.g. for 280SL you'll find:

European: BP7ES
US:          BPR6ES

In those cases a former IBM tutor used to say: "Why the difference? To confuse the Russians!"

Btw: The information that NGK no longer will produce non-resistor spark plugs is at least 1 year old. But they are still on the market. Here for 1,25-1,50€/ea.
...WRe

TJMart

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2020, 17:20:39 »
I just picked up 12 NGK BP5ES 7832s at Advanced Auto Parts for $2.49 each. Bosch I could not find.
Tony
1970 280SL, 4 Speed

neelyrc

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2020, 23:35:30 »
I have used NGK BP5ES successfully for a while now, the box says NGK BP5ES (6511)  ,
Is there any difference with NGK BP5ES (7832) ?

If you search for NGK 6511 or 7832 you get BP5ES
Any one any idea why ? or is it that 6511 and 7832 are just numbers used in different markets ?

6511 are still easily available  in UK for around £2.00 a plug.

Any thoughts ?

Quite confusing.  I also have BP5ES plugs with the number 2140 on the box????????
Ralph

1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
1972 Mercedes-Benz 280SEL 4.5
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
Italy
2004 Toyota HiLux D4D Pickup
2008 BMW 330xd Futura Coupe' (E92)

66andBlue

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2020, 23:36:24 »
Hi,
it's really confusing!

If you look in the official European NGK catalogues BP5ES spark plugs have the number "6511".
Same spark plug in US catalogues has "7832". .....
Here is your answer Wolfgang:
Why Do NGK Plugs Have Two Numbers?
Many spark plug brands, including NGK, have two different ID numbers assigned to spark plugs - a 3-5 digit stock number and a longer alphanumeric part number.
The alphanumeric part number identifies the spark plugs specifications and is printed on both the spark plug and the box.
The stock number is used by distributors and retailers to aid in stock management, as the alphanumberic number would be difficult to manage inventory by. This number is found only on the box and has no relation to the spark plugs features or dimensions.

https://www.ngk.com/learning-center/article/825/why-do-ngk-plugs-have-two-numbers

The alphanumeric number decoding is in the technical manual: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/SparkPlugs
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Alex D

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2020, 00:28:14 »
Yes, Alfred is correct.  While trying to stock up on a few extras twice I was sent the wrong plugs BPR6ES instead of the non resistor plugs I ordered, both times I had to return.  They had a mix up in the 4 digit numberic stocking number.   
Alex D
1967 250 SL
Original 140K mi
181 Light Beige, with  112 Turquoise Interior

hansr433

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2020, 05:37:36 »
Very often the same item will have several part numbers.  The purpose is to discourage and track grey market imports.  I found this to be true with particular Canon inkjet cartridges, which sell for much more in Europe than in NA.  Same with batteries like Duracell or Energizer.  Different market=different distribution model=different price.
Hans
1963 220SE Cabrio (Exterior: Navy MB 332, Top: Haarz Navy, Interior: 482P Sahara Beige)
1963 BMW R69S

WRe

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Re: Sparkplug discontinued?
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2020, 07:14:10 »
Hi,
thank you Alfred!
The "BP5ES 2140" has a non-removable SAE-terminal, fixed nut. Corresponding to NGK's own numbering scheme - maybe for Europe only - these sparkplugs should have a "B" instead of an "S" (for standard) in their name. Attached two NGK numbering systems with and without this special detail.
...WRe
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 07:34:56 by WRe »