Author Topic: Sparkplug discontinued? (Read 8029 times)

col320ce · « **on:** June 06, 2020, 09:37:18 »

https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=9397

Are nkg also stopping manufacturing of the non resistor plugs?

Time to stock up

mrfatboy · « **Reply #1 on:** June 06, 2020, 09:42:15 »

Your link is broken.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 06, 2020, 09:45:05 »

Yep, does not work...

Alex D · « **Reply #3 on:** June 06, 2020, 10:51:53 »

Yes, I spoke to NGK customer service, they said they are no longer producing non resistor spark plugs, once the exisiting inventory is gone, it's gone.

badali · « **Reply #4 on:** June 06, 2020, 11:56:02 »

W7DC Bosch are still available many places. I just did a google search. I have been using them.

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #5 on:** June 06, 2020, 12:25:46 »

Resistor plugs work just fine.

ja17 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 06, 2020, 22:10:00 »

Bosch started suppling the W7DC (non-resistor) spark plugs again. Most likely you will have to get lucky to find them or order them from the dealer. There is a MB part number assigned to them, anybody?

Using resistor plugs will work but you add 5,000 ohm resistance to each spark plug circuit. The rotor is 5,000 ohms, the spark plug wire end at the distributor is 1,000 ohms, the spark plug wire end at the spark plug is 1,000 or 5,000 ohm and now with the resistor plugs you add another 5,000 ohms. Early factory non-transistorized ignitions spec maximum resistance in each spark plug circuit to 13,000 ohms. So with everything new you are already near or over the factory limit and have no cushion for age and wear of parts and weather conditions. At the very least you have lost all of your safety margin. Now if you have carbon spark plug wires or carbon coil wire you add a lot more resistance on top of that. Later W113 cars with factory electronic ignitions had a higher voltage and were allowed 19,000 ohm resistance per spark plug circuit. Most of these cars can use the 5,000 ohm spark plug wire ends. If you have to use resistor spark plugs you should upgrade your ignition coil and ballast resistor to supply more voltage. In the end, these engines were designed to use non-resistor spark plugs with the original ignition systems. The next time you have a cold start on a damp cold morning you'll be glad you had a hotter spark from less resistance or a hotter ignition.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 07, 2020, 08:08:12 »

Mercedes part number for Bosch W7DCO is A 003 159 12 03. It can be found under Air Pollution Control parts list.
Mercedes part number for Bosch W5DCO is A 003 159 14 03.

I would, however, be careful - if a dealer don't have this particular plug, they will give you replacement.

I think it is easier to find the plugs we are looking for in the stores specializing in motorbike parts.

Montreal V8 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 07, 2020, 18:15:25 »

The main problem I foresee is is for owners of vintage/ classic, magneto equipped motorcycles, as resistor plugs put an extra load on the armature winding, and a reduced spark intensity.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 07, 2020, 18:16:38 »

I think they will re-appear in a box called "Classic", triple the price.

wwheeler · « **Reply #10 on:** June 08, 2020, 03:51:25 »

I think Pawel has it right. Bringing a product back like that is all based on demand though. If the resistor plugs don't end up creating a big issue and no one complains, you will never see another non-resistor plug from NGK. But if enough people complain......yep triple the price.

badali · « **Reply #11 on:** June 08, 2020, 12:01:34 »

Just buy the W7DC. They can still be found.

wwheeler · « **Reply #12 on:** June 08, 2020, 13:43:54 »

I bought a few more just in case but I use the W8DC. Just a bit hotter. Still they are $8/ea and that ends up being being $50 a set of six. Not cheap by any means. But I have enough to last me for a very long time now. Thanks for the tip about NGK.

Saman 280SL · « **Reply #13 on:** June 08, 2020, 16:46:32 »

If you have converted to a Petronix electronic ignition system it's ok to use non-resistor?

neelyrc · « **Reply #14 on:** June 09, 2020, 01:44:39 »

I picked up a set of the NKGs yesterday and another set today. Thirty bucks well spent. With a third set still on my parts shelf I think I am fixed for a while.

mrfatboy · « **Reply #15 on:** June 09, 2020, 01:46:40 »

🤣 I can't resist 🤣

kampala · « **Reply #16 on:** June 09, 2020, 02:05:29 »

Is this going to be like toilet paper? Are we gonna have a stockpiling of plugs? Is Costco going to limit them to one 48 pack per family?

A while back rockauto was selling the plugs I like ( ngk 7832), for about a $1.10 so I picked up enough to get me through many years for both cars. These are the hotter bp5es.

Paul & Dolly · « **Reply #17 on:** June 09, 2020, 08:36:54 »

I have used NGK BP5ES successfully for a while now, the box says NGK BP5ES (6511) ,
Is there any difference with NGK BP5ES (7832) ?

If you search for NGK 6511 or 7832 you get BP5ES
Any one any idea why ? or is it that 6511 and 7832 are just numbers used in different markets ?

6511 are still easily available in UK for around £2.00 a plug.

Any thoughts ?

WRe · « **Reply #18 on:** June 09, 2020, 09:37:11 »

Hi,
it's really confusing!

If you look in the official European NGK catalogues BP5ES spark plugs have the number "6511".
Same spark plug in US catalogues has "7832".

If you look in the different NGK part finders
European https://www.ngkntk.com/part-finder/produktfinder/PKW/ZK_BENZINER/ and
US: https://ngksparkplugs.com/en/part-finder) you'll find different recommendations for a standard spark plug,
e.g. for 280SL you'll find:

European: BP7ES
US: BPR6ES

In those cases a former IBM tutor used to say: "Why the difference? To confuse the Russians!"

Btw: The information that NGK no longer will produce non-resistor spark plugs is at least 1 year old. But they are still on the market. Here for 1,25-1,50€/ea.
...WRe

TJMart · « **Reply #19 on:** June 09, 2020, 17:20:39 »

I just picked up 12 NGK BP5ES 7832s at Advanced Auto Parts for $2.49 each. Bosch I could not find.

neelyrc · « **Reply #20 on:** June 09, 2020, 23:35:30 »

Quote from: Paul & Dolly on June 09, 2020, 08:36:54

I have used NGK BP5ES successfully for a while now, the box says NGK BP5ES (6511) ,
Is there any difference with NGK BP5ES (7832) ?

If you search for NGK 6511 or 7832 you get BP5ES
Any one any idea why ? or is it that 6511 and 7832 are just numbers used in different markets ?

6511 are still easily available in UK for around £2.00 a plug.

Any thoughts ?

Quite confusing. I also have BP5ES plugs with the number 2140 on the box?

?

66andBlue · « **Reply #21 on:** June 09, 2020, 23:36:24 »

Quote from: WRe on June 09, 2020, 09:37:11

Hi,
it's really confusing!

If you look in the official European NGK catalogues BP5ES spark plugs have the number "6511".
Same spark plug in US catalogues has "7832". .....

Here is your answer Wolfgang:
Why Do NGK Plugs Have Two Numbers?
Many spark plug brands, including NGK, have two different ID numbers assigned to spark plugs - a 3-5 digit stock number and a longer alphanumeric part number.
The alphanumeric part number identifies the spark plugs specifications and is printed on both the spark plug and the box.
The stock number is used by distributors and retailers to aid in stock management, as the alphanumberic number would be difficult to manage inventory by. This number is found only on the box and has no relation to the spark plugs features or dimensions.
https://www.ngk.com/learning-center/article/825/why-do-ngk-plugs-have-two-numbers

The alphanumeric number decoding is in the technical manual: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/SparkPlugs

Alex D · « **Reply #22 on:** June 10, 2020, 00:28:14 »

Yes, Alfred is correct. While trying to stock up on a few extras twice I was sent the wrong plugs BPR6ES instead of the non resistor plugs I ordered, both times I had to return. They had a mix up in the 4 digit numberic stocking number.

hansr433 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 10, 2020, 05:37:36 »

Very often the same item will have several part numbers. The purpose is to discourage and track grey market imports. I found this to be true with particular Canon inkjet cartridges, which sell for much more in Europe than in NA. Same with batteries like Duracell or Energizer. Different market=different distribution model=different price.

WRe · « **Reply #24 on:** June 10, 2020, 07:14:10 »

Hi,
thank you Alfred!
The "BP5ES 2140" has a non-removable SAE-terminal, fixed nut. Corresponding to NGK's own numbering scheme - maybe for Europe only - these sparkplugs should have a "B" instead of an "S" (for standard) in their name. Attached two NGK numbering systems with and without this special detail.
...WRe

66andBlue · « **Reply #25 on:** June 20, 2020, 05:09:36 »

Hello Wolfgang,
if you look closely under the column "S" it states "Firing End Construction", the fixed terminal nut is on the other end.
Since this NGK nomenclature is so confusing I inquired with the NGK Technical Support-USA why some BP5ES have a removable terminal and on others it is fixed. Here the reply:
"Thank you for your inquiry.
There are different terminal types for spark plugs. We no longer offer BP5ES in a loose design, the type where you can unscrew the tip, so the solid terminal type is normal for this plug. The loose design has superseded to the solid terminal type, stock number 7832 to stock number 2140.
Please let me know if you have any additional questions."
I followed up by asking whether there is a decoder that would tell us which stock number for other plugs has the removable terminal nut but received no further replies.

Thus anyone searching for the correct BP5ES look for stock number 7832. Or perhaps for stock number 6511 as Paul noted earlier.

And if you search for BP6ES then find stock number 7333 and DO NOT buy the new stock number 7811, it has a fixed terminal.

Given that confusing state of part numbers it will be best to ask specifically whether the plug has a removable terminal nut.

FGN59 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 20, 2020, 22:16:10 »

I recently purchased 2 sets of plugs on Amazon, one of BP5ES (6511) and the other BP6ES (7811). Both types have removable terminals screwed onto the external threaded part (lead?) that fits into the connector of our cars. Once The terminals are removed, they fit perfectly.

66andBlue · « **Reply #27 on:** June 21, 2020, 04:33:31 »

Good to know that you found a 7811 with a removable terminal nut.
This is another proof that NGK's numbering is out of wack.
Here are the details from another NGK information site (I added the coloring to highlight):
--
BP6ES - NGK Replacement Spark Plug Sparkplug - NEW No. 7811
Spanner Size : 20.8 mm (21mm)
Thread : M14
Thread Length : 19mm
Top Connection : FIXED top nut (Terminal Nut)
Spark Projection : 3mm
Nickel Centre Electrode
1 Single Earth Electrode
Non Resistor Type
Seat Type : Gasket Washer
--

mdsalemi · « **Reply #28 on:** June 22, 2020, 15:42:04 »

Hmmm.

I stock both BP5ES and BP6ES in my "kit".
Stock #s 7832 and 7333 respectively. With removable tops.
My car runs better with the BP5ES, so that's what I just bought for a lifetime supply. I do have a new set of the BP6 as well.

alpina · « **Reply #29 on:** June 22, 2020, 18:48:55 »

I recently bought NGK BP5ES (6511) from Amazon here in Spain and they have removable tops.

Atazman · « **Reply #30 on:** June 23, 2020, 04:39:33 »

Who would have thought..........first toilet paper and now spark plugs!

I joined right in thinking it is time to change my BP6ES plugs for BP5ES. Went to one of my favorite places (Rock Auto) and bought apparently their last "5" BP5ES for $0.81/each. I know..... how much good will "5" spark plugs do me?? They arrived this past week.

Well.... I need at least 1 more BP5ES plug, so ordered from EBAY. Also arrived this past week, only it is a BPR5ES plug. I sent it back.

Still on the hunt for one more BP5ES.

neelyrc · « **Reply #31 on:** June 23, 2020, 05:36:05 »

Quote from: Atazman on June 23, 2020, 04:39:33

Still on the hunt for one more BP5ES.

Try Advanced Auto Parts, physical stores, not on line. A few days ago when I bought the last set of 6 from one store they had two single plugs still on the shelf. Another of their stores I checked also had two only. You might get lucky!

UJJ · « **Reply #32 on:** June 23, 2020, 13:29:55 »

I just got 12 from Rock Auto for $1.48 each.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #33 on:** June 24, 2020, 20:36:41 »

Quote from: Atazman on June 23, 2020, 04:39:33

Also arrived this past week, only it is a BPR5ES plug. I sent it back.

Still on the hunt for one more BP5ES.

PM sent.

jeblack123 · « **Reply #34 on:** June 24, 2020, 20:40:02 »

Still available on Amazon for about $3.00 each......

4-pack
https://www.amazon.com/NGK-Spark-Plugs-BP5ES-Plug/dp/B001P9F0RI/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&keywords=bp5es&qid=1593031037&s=automotive&sr=1-16

12 pack
https://www.amazon.com/NGK-BP5ES-Standard-Spark-Plug/dp/B07GVP3QM7/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=bp5es+12+pack&qid=1593031129&s=automotive&sr=1-1

James (Eddie) Black

mdsalemi · « **Reply #35 on:** June 24, 2020, 20:42:24 »

Quote from: jeblack123 on June 24, 2020, 20:40:02

Still available on Amazon for about $3.00 each......

Both AlexD and myself tried this. They send the Resistor plugs!!!

mrfatboy · « **Reply #36 on:** June 24, 2020, 20:45:15 »

Quote from: mdsalemi on June 24, 2020, 20:42:24

Both AlexD and myself tried this. They send the Resistor plugs!!!

This happened to a friend of mine also.

jeblack123 · « **Reply #37 on:** June 24, 2020, 21:17:50 »

Thank you. I stand corrected......

James

Benz Dr. · « **Reply #38 on:** June 24, 2020, 22:37:02 »

I've had the same plugs in my car for over ten years and I've never had them out to even look at them. Once you get your ignition and fuel ratios set right pugs should last a long time. I've probably put 30,000 miles on the car in the last ten years.

Mike K · « **Reply #39 on:** June 26, 2020, 13:28:41 »

About a year ago I noticed that theses spark plugs were becoming increasingly difficult to find, both in France and South Africa. It didn't seem to make sense.

I had a sneaky feeling that at some point they were going to discontinue these plugs. So I bought a dozen of the BP5ES for my 280SL Pagoda which lives in France and dozen of the BP6EFS for my R107 300SL which lives in South Africa.

Based on Dan's numbers above that should be enough spark plugs to outlive me.....

mdsalemi · « **Reply #40 on:** June 26, 2020, 17:48:16 »

My guess is good old standby Bosch and Champion have non-resistor plugs that will work.

Benz Dr. · « **Reply #41 on:** June 26, 2020, 18:17:28 »

I won't use Champion spark plugs on an aluminum head engine. Both Bosch and NGK use nickel-plated shells which tend not to seize in aluminum. Use whatever you want but be careful with what you use.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #42 on:** June 27, 2020, 18:59:56 »

Quote from: Benz Dr. on June 26, 2020, 18:17:28

I won't use Champion spark plugs on an aluminum head engine. Both Bosch and NGK use nickel-plated shells which tend not to seize in aluminum. Use whatever you want but be careful with what you use.

Champion plugs today feature what they call "TinTac® and ULTRASEAL" and they claim "eliminates the need for use of anti-seize compound by providing the best corrosion protection of any spark plug"

I'm not here to sell them [Champion] or to test them; I have a lifetime supply of NGK.

If you ever screw anything in, that eventually must come out, particularly with dissimilar metals, I'm a fan of anti-seize. I generally use light coatings of "silver grade".

stickandrudderman · « **Reply #43 on:** June 28, 2020, 08:53:10 »

i just renewed my stock of W7DC and had no problem buying 100 of them from my usual supplier.

WRe · « **Reply #44 on:** June 28, 2020, 09:05:45 »

Hi,
I second Dan's statement about Champion spark plugs. I've used them for years and 30.000km and had problems with my new NGKs because of "altered" threads. It was hard to screw the NGKs in.
...WRe

merrill · « **Reply #45 on:** June 29, 2020, 19:42:57 »

hello

NAPA has the NGK 7333 BP6ES on the shelf
Bosch W7DC are available from K&K and Authentic classics as well as other suppliers

I ended up buying 6 ngk from Napa and 12 w7dc from a vw supply house.
At the rate i drive i now have a lifetime supply of these plugs.

mdsalemi · « **Reply #46 on:** June 30, 2020, 13:10:26 »

Quote from: merrill on June 29, 2020, 19:42:57

NAPA has the NGK 7333 BP6ES on the shelf
Bosch W7DC are available from K&K and Authentic classics as well as other suppliers

Merrill, it depends on where you are! Here in NC, they are about wiped out (NAPA) of the NGKs. One local place had none; another had 5. I ended up buying sets at O'Reilly and Advanced. Of course AlexD and his pals in the Raleigh-Durham area wiped out the NAPA supply...

...and like many others I now have 18 BP5ES "in stock", as well as a set of BP6ES.

col320ce · « **Reply #47 on:** July 01, 2020, 13:01:32 »

There are still plenty available in Australia ... if anyone needs pointing in the right direction let me know.

WRe · « **Reply #48 on:** July 01, 2020, 14:44:23 »

Hi,
in the meantime I believe that this story "to stop the production of non-resistor plugs" was launched by NGK to push their spark plug sales. ;-)
...WRe

mdsalemi · « **Reply #49 on:** July 01, 2020, 15:43:30 »

Quote from: WRe on July 01, 2020, 14:44:23

Hi,
in the meantime I believe that this story "to stop the production of non-resistor plugs" was launched by NGK to push their spark plug sales. ;-)
...WRe

Haha. Remember, that all the plugs we've purchased, as far as NGK has been concerned, were already sold. Whether they sit on the shelf at NAPA or Advanced, or O'Reilly--doesn't matter. These retailers already bought and paid for them. We're just reducing inventory.

merrill · « **Reply #50 on:** July 02, 2020, 21:13:42 »

so to continue this discussion,

I had ordered x2 w7dc from K&K MFG.
Their website showed W7DC's available so i ordered 2 to complete a set (I had 4)

what showed up were W R 7DC+. I called and talked to Steve the sales guy, he said he had to check on this and get back to me.

turns out Bosh had substituted the WR's and that was all they had on the shelf. They didn't even realize it.
on top of that before he called me back he said he talked to their supplier and they said the "R" doesn't make a difference.

i had to explain to him how the resistance affects the traditional ignition system and that they should at least update their website to reflect that they only carry the "new" plug.

in the end i will get a refund on the 2 he sent me and i have already found more of the correct W7DC 7500's.

lesson learned to call first before ordering

merrill · « **Reply #51 on:** July 11, 2020, 19:28:14 »

i was in advanced auto parts today and just for fun asked the counter guy to check if they had any ngk 7333

in the Austin area they have 100 available.

the plugs are not listed on their web site, since they have been discontinued you have to ask in store if they have them

News:

Author Topic: Sparkplug discontinued? (Read 8029 times)

Montreal V8