Author Topic: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?  (Read 8461 times)

alpinaltd

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Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« on: February 16, 2020, 17:07:59 »
A few years ago, disappointed with the photocopy data card supplied by Mercedes classic centre. I set out to recreate
the data card, which I could then print onto card for the correct look and feel. This was a small side project for my
Own use.
However after sharing what I had done with the forum, I have produced data cards for a few other members.
At that time I was only reproducing only one version of card for a 280SL.

From time to time since them, I have returned to the project collecting card details from early 230SLs – later 280SLs.
The technical manual details 4 versions of the Data Card. I now believe there is at least 7. I have 3 versions for a 230SL
1 for the 250SL and 3 for the 280SL.
Information for the 280SL is pretty much complete, front and rear of card and pink version.
Information on the 230SL and 250SL Is proving harder to find. I don’t know if they are just single sided or if the language
translation is printed on the rear as per the 280SL. I would be interested to see an early original card.

The cards below are recreations of the various versions of data card. Note the details on the cards do not relate to an actual car.

Jordan

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2020, 17:49:35 »
Very nice job.  I only have a photocopy of the front of my 230SL data card but it is almost identical to the third one you have posted with the large 5 left of the type.   The only difference is the number font on the first two lines.  Mine are fatter with the zero's being more square on the corners like the 250SL card but the 3's being sloped down on the bottom.  The lower rows, starting with the engine number, look the same.
Marcus
66 230SL  Euro 4 speed

John Betsch - "SADIE"

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2020, 21:02:05 »
You mentioned that you may think there are additional versions of data cards. 

MY data card is "very close" to the "5" version but there are some differences in box separation etc with  a large number 3 instead of the five.  This is for a May, 1965 230SL produced car.

JB
JB; 1965 German market SL, Rot Met 571, Summary Code 213 Interior

alpinaltd

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2020, 21:53:24 »
Given all the various data cards I have come across, my theory is a car was supplied with 5 cards.  I am pretty
Sure that is the case for the 280SL  (3 beige cards and 2 pink) I have seen these numbered 1 – 5. I have also
Seen only the first 3 cards numbered with no number on the pink cards.

Info on the 230SL is harder to come by. I have seen cards numbered with a large 3 and also a 5, I have also seen
A pink version of the 230sl card which leads me back to the theory that 5 cards were originally supplied.
Depending On which of those 5 cards you have, the style of the card subtly changes,  with the information below removed
From, lets call them “spare cards”
1 Fahrzeug-Daten (1 Vehicle Data)
2 Bitte bei Ersatzteilbestellung Fahrgestell-Nr. angeben (Pos.5)  (2.Please provide serial number when ordering spare parts)
3 Karte nicht im Fahrzeug aufbewahren!  (3.Do not leave data card in vehicle!)

lreppond

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2020, 22:29:11 »
Impressive work.  I believe the card I received from the classic center was was a photocopy Of the pink card (280SL Version 3). Everything looks identical in terms of setup. 
~Len

1971 280 SL
576G red/141 Beige
4 speed manual
GP stereo
Family owned since new (father —> son)

Benz Dr.

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2020, 00:00:15 »
Make sure that you're not stepping on any toes. MB is very sensitive to anyone using their logo. It took several years for them to quit bugging me about using Benz Barn which was my original company name. Just sayin'.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

Paul Cain

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2020, 16:49:42 »
Alpina Ltd.
Here is an example of what the Classic Center sent for my 1965 230 SL. 

alpinaltd

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2020, 19:14:17 »
Hi Paul,
I shoud have your card finshed later today / tomorrow. :)
DM

114015

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2020, 03:18:22 »

Hey Paul !
Oh, your car has got a softtop (as seen on the pics)  - very nice!
Your datacard shows code 41/5, so again a car delivered without softtop ex factory!
So yours was retrofitted.


Good luck,


Achim


Achim
(Germany)

neelyrc

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2020, 05:05:16 »
.......  I am pretty Sure that is the case for the 280SL  (3 beige cards and 2 pink) I have seen these numbered 1 – 5. I have also
Seen only the first 3 cards numbered with no number on the pink cards.........
My 280SL was supplied with beige cards numbered 1-3 and two unnumbered pink cards.  I also obtained a copy of my data card from the classic center.  It was numbered “4”. 

I thus surmised that this card number 4 was used for internal purposes only at the factory and not distributed with the car.  Does anyone have a number 4 data card other than a copy received from the classic center?
Ralph

1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
1995 Jaguar XJS Convertible
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
Italy
2004 Toyota HiLux D4D Pickup
2008 BMW 330xd Futura Coupe' (E92)

Peter

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2020, 09:37:19 »
No, I received from MB a copy of card #3

Paul Cain

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2020, 16:20:51 »
Alplina Ltd. turned around my datacard VIN specific details in about 4 hours. A quick trip down to the local printer on heavy card stock and done.

I received a super high res. pdf image of all cards, both sides.  What a phenomenal resource - Thank you AlpinaLtd!

See attached.

Paul Cain

EeVeeWee

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2020, 21:26:14 »
I'm interested in getting a decent version of the 3th one from the 230SL data card (the one with the "5") instead of the bad copy I have now.  :)
Again something else.

alpinaltd

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2020, 22:13:14 »
EeVeeWee.  PM sent.

DM

66andBlue

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2020, 02:13:05 »
The data card that came with my 1964 230SL looks different from those that are posted here.
Mine has additional information on the right (green double-headed arrow) and the Übernahmetag data are printed in.
The Übernahmetag data read: DB 600-50-13 80.000 S.T. 4, 64
The owner was instructed to keep this card with the car papers.
I believe the card is a copy and not the original one.

Fortunately I know when the car was on the assembly line because it is listed in Engelen's book: May 15, 1964.
Most likely the car arrived at (or left) the MB distribution center in Jacksonville, FL (JAX) on August 8, 1964 and was sold to the original unknown owner there. At that time Mercedes cars were sold by the Mercedes Studebaker subsidiary.
The second owner in Bradenton, FL bought the car in 1967 and in 1992 it went to the third in Ohio.

So, what do the expert think about the items indicated by the green arrows?
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

114015

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2020, 03:59:51 »

Alfred...,
Very nice.  :)

Your data card looks to me as a usual one for an early 1964 230 SL.

You do not have inscribed the "Übernahmetag" (date of delivery) in the field "Übernahmetag". Your date Aug 8, 1964 is manually printed elsewhere.
 ;)
The inscriptions therein are only company-internal markings of the datacard-printing-company (Hummel AG) and mean that the "editorial version" of your data card (most likely datacard blank) is for DB (= Daimler Benz) and as of '04 64'  - so, a bit earlier than your car was built.
The design of our datacards changed pretty often - also during the production time of the 230SL.

Yes, I have seen DCs more often with the star on the right side but not together with that comment (keep with car papers) and still including the lock key numbers (that you correctly blanked out here). That doesn't make sense to me.
Not so usual.

Are you sure yours is a copy? You car is so original, you surely have got all the booklets, owners manuals and paperwork with your car, haven't you?
Also, your datacard looks pink-ish to me...; and there was a pink copy with these cars - at least with most....

 ;) ;)
Achim
Achim
(Germany)

114015

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« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2020, 04:12:29 »

Yes, Alfred,
Just found a pic of one (!) datacard like yours in my archive, bit older than your car. White datacard (not yellow, not pink) with blue star, blue "Bei den Wagenpapieren aufbewahren" and blue "1 Fahrzeug-Daten"
... and the key code numbers also printed in.

Very low pic quality, very hard to read the numbers,
and the original "Kraftfahrzeugbrief" is/was attached. Initial Frankfurt registry.

So, you have got a "regular" datacard.
 ;)

Achim
Achim
(Germany)

114015

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2020, 04:20:24 »
Quote
Alplina Ltd. turned around my datacard VIN specific details in about 4 hours. A quick trip down to the local printer on heavy card stock and done.

I received a super high res. pdf image of all cards, both sides.  What a phenomenal resource - Thank you AlpinaLtd!

Gentlemen...!
Are you really sure about this? Five prints? I am not convinced...!
I think the 230 SL (not Ralph's 280 - that are (too) many reprints),
but I think the 230 SL has got three datacards for/to the customer at the most!
One yellow one with all numbers, one yellow one with the blacked-out key numbers
and perhaps additionally a white one (I have one copy of those) or a pink one perhaps.
At the most.
But five...?
I don't think so, I have never seen that before! What sense does/did it make to Daimler to have that many prints and even identical ones -  and all only for the customer?
Well, this might have been the case with the 280ies but I doubt with the 230ies.

Or if so - show me the proof please.
Please... ;)


Best,
Achim

(heavy-weight datacard knowledge collector)

Achim
(Germany)

alpinaltd

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2020, 11:04:34 »
I would like to make It clear, I am not professing to be an expert in Data cards. All I can comment on is what
I have seen and collected for my own purposes. I do believe that the 230 had many different style cards.
These cards were numbered up to 5.
I have no idea if these are copy cards or cards supplied with the car. They just exist. I have no interest in the
Reasons why. Everyone is entitled to believe whatever they want.

When I received my data card from MB in 2014, I was disappointed with poor photocopy they supply. I thought
I could improve it. So I set out recreate my data card to give it the look of an original.
After people saw the result I had a number of requests to do the same for them. At that time I could only prepare
A card for a 280SL, based on my own.
Over time I started collecting the different styles of cards for all models, slowly reproducing original look reproductions.
With the growing number of people disappointed with the MB copy, I thought I could help. Therefore I offered to recreate
Their copy.  In the same way I recreated the Engineering tags / Decals. (which I donated to the group.)
I’m sure know one apricates the time and effort that goes into every recreation.
I am just glad that everyone who I have helped is happy and pleased with the result, nothing more nothing less.

Best
DM.

mrfatboy

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2020, 13:11:35 »
There has been much discussion of this subject this week here in San Diego. The consensus so far is that Alpina has done a fantastic job reproducing the ENTIRE set (1-5 of data cards that was generated for our cars.

However, 114015 is correct that the car buyer didn't receive all all 5 cards. Most likely the 3 cards as he states.

Card 1 - full card for owners files
Card 2 - card with key codes blanked to be kept with car for ordering parts at dealer.
Card 5?- pink card (non rounded edge card) which is that old style carbon copy card stock). Also note that the pink cards are not double sided. They also didn't have extra printing on edges and star logo.

The other cards in theory were suppose to go to MB for recording keeping or internal purposes.

Other members here also believe that the above MB system was not always followed correctly by dealship personel and that's why that some of us received extra or different numbered cards.

And yes. There are many versions of the card.  Even font changes.  I have seen two original 230 cards that have an earlier font style as well as the later font style used on 280 cards.

Well... That's the theory so far anyway 🤣
1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
Signal Red
4 Speed

BOTIGER1970

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2020, 19:06:14 »
I'm sorry to be a rock, but when I ordered my data card from Classic Center, all I received was a copy on paper, no cards.  Are these original looking cards available for purchase?  I am a new member who has just started the restoration of a 1970 280SL and am looking for any assistance on obtaining at least what looks like the original data cards for my car, if available?
Thanks,
Mark

alpinaltd

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2020, 21:27:01 »
Mark. PM sent.  :)

EeVeeWee

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2020, 21:35:16 »
The data cards from alpinaltd are amazing, just like real!
Again something else.

neelyrc

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2020, 06:31:59 »
There has been much discussion of this subject this week here in San Diego. The consensus so far is that Alpina has done a fantastic job reproducing the ENTIRE set (1-5 of data cards that was generated for our cars.

However, 114015 is correct that the car buyer didn't receive all all 5 cards. Most likely the 3 cards as he states.

Card 1 - full card for owners files
Card 2 - card with key codes blanked to be kept with car for ordering parts at dealer.
Card 5?- pink card (non rounded edge card) which is that old style carbon copy card stock). Also note that the pink cards are not double sided. They also didn't have extra printing on edges and star logo.

The other cards in theory were suppose to go to MB for recording keeping or internal purposes.

Other members here also believe that the above MB system was not always followed correctly by dealship personel and that's why that some of us received extra or different numbered cards.

And yes. There are many versions of the card.  Even font changes.  I have seen two original 230 cards that have an earlier font style as well as the later font style used on 280 cards.

Well... That's the theory so far anyway 🤣

I want to add a few comments.  As I indicated in reply 10 above I did receive 5 data cards with my car.  My car was a European Tourist delivery, code 707. That being the case, the number of cards that I received may not be the same as for cars delivered through a dealer.  There were however a significant number of Tourist deliveries. A note in our Technical Manual indicates that in 1964 about 38% of sales or over 4000 cars were Tourist deliveries. This was apparently the highest year.

In addition to cards 1 and 2, I also received a card 3.  Card 3 is printed on the same beige Hummel card stock as card 1 and 2.  It does not include the large embossed MB star.  Also, the box in the lower right hand corner is empty.  The back of this card is completely blank.

The other two cards I received were pink.  They do not have rounded corners, the box in the lower right hand corner is empty and the back of the cards are blank.  These cards do not have the vertical printing in the left margin but there is some printing below the border near the left margin.  The characters are only partially visible as if chopped off.  The printing on the card is of a lesser quality than that on the beige cards.

I also have a copy of a card 4 which I obtained from the Classic Center by email a few years ago.  It appears to be the same as card 3 except it is imprinted with the number 4.  It contains vertical printing in the left margin and printing below the border near the left margin.

The vertical printing on the left end of the cards and the printing at the bottom of the cards below the border varies from card to card.

I intended to attach images of all these cards here however I was unable to find card 2 in my files today.  If I turn it up I will post later. The others are included here.
Ralph

1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
1995 Jaguar XJS Convertible
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
Italy
2004 Toyota HiLux D4D Pickup
2008 BMW 330xd Futura Coupe' (E92)

alpinaltd

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Re: Data Card – Disappointed with the photocopy from MB ?
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2020, 08:55:20 »
Thank you Ralph. that confirms what i knew.