Questions about a 1971 280SL I'm considering

[icebone]

Hello all,

Glad to find this group! It's my first time on this forum (though I have used other enthusiast forums before). I'm based in the Bay Area in California. (Among less interesting vehicles, I've previously had a 1989 Alfa Spider (first car!), 1998 Boxster, 2002 Audi TT 225 Roadster, 1991 Acura NSX, and a 2007 Aston Martin Vantage. I sold the latter two earlier this year, and now have just a little Fiat 500 Abarth.)

I've been looking at getting a Pagoda for some time. I like the look of a 1971 280SL, VIN 113044-12-022744, for sale at Fantasy Junction, the consignment shop in Emeryville CA. Here's the link to photos and info, for those interested: http://www.fantasyjunction.com/cars/2017-Mercedes%20Benz-280SL-Inline-6

I went to look at it and drive it earlier this week, and I now have an inspection scheduled for after the holiday.

I have a couple questions for all you experts and owners here in advance of that, as -- though I've certainly bought some cars before -- I don't know nearly as much about these ones. It's possible some things I consider red flags are actually fine, or vice versa.

A note about intended use: I don't intend to show the car or anything like that -- I would like a solid driver for trips down to LA or Pebble Beach, or around the Bay Area. So it doesn't need to be perfect, but I don't want to walk into a major project either.

First and most general, I am wondering whether this example is a good prospect for my needs. Here are some facts I've learned about this car:

• The car has 72,000 (displayed) miles, but it's almost certainly turned over past 100,000 at least once -- meaning 172k. The early service records (last few photos on the site) show that the car was heavily used in its early years -- it had accumulated 65k within the first 4-5 years of its life. That said, it does not present as a 172k car, at all. I am told it was restored previously (see below).
• Car was originally brown, but was repainted in dark blue at some point. Interior is tan MBTex, which has been refreshed at some point as well. I do love the look of the navy on tan, I must say!
• Current owner reports that she bought it 12 years ago (in 2005) from Heritage Classics in LA; at that time it had 32,000 displayed miles (meaning she did 40k in the last 12 years). Apparently it had been owned before her for about 10 years (i.e. ~1995-2005), by a woman in LA whose father had gotten it for her 18th birthday. That's all we know.
• Apparently the 18 year old's father had restored the car for her, probably sometime around 1995(?). Thus, it seems to have about a 20-year old semi-restoration. This is probably when the repaint happened?
• The car evidently has a replacement motor, since there's no number stamped on the engine. I learned (on this site!) that this usually means a crate motor was used. Note, the current owner had no idea that the car has a replacement motor, so it must have gone in prior to 2005 -- again, probably during the ~1995 mystery restoration. Motor feels good, idle is maybe a little rough.
• Recent work in the past two years, according to the consignor, is as follows: "a 2016 transmission rebuild including replacing the front pump seal, torque converter seal, and driveshaft support, rebuild of the shifter assembly, a major service including valve adjustment, valve cover gasket, new points, new rear fuel pump hoses, new thermostat, replacement of rear axle bearings and seals, new rear brake pads and rotors, renewing front brake pads and rotors, new alternator and voltage regulator, oil change, chassis lube, and new battery."
• Headroom - I am 6'3 and fit in the car nicely with the Pagoda top on. About 1/2"-1" or so headroom to spare. Didn't try with the soft top. Anyone have an estimate how much less headroom there is with that top?
• Seatbelts - the passenger side Kangol seatbelt seems to be missing a piece, as there's nowhere to latch it. I couldn't really figure out the driver's side one, either, though it seems complete at least. The belt material is grey, and is also worn and frayed in places. I see that Bud's Benz has a service to recondition seatbelts -- wondering if anyone here has experience with this and if it's worth doing.
• Tires - The tires are in decent shape but are 14 years old. They're 205/70/r14 Michelin Symmetry whitewalls. I looked and can't find any whitewalls in this size anymore -- though I did see (in another post on this forum) that the Phoenix 3/4" whitewall 185r1 works. I would really like to get narrow whitewalls if I get the car, since I love the look -- I'm wondering if these Phoenix ones are a direct fit, given the somewhat different size to what it's wearing now, or if anyone has experience or recommendations.
• Aftermarket stereo - The car has speakers in the rear deck behind the sideways kinder-seat, and a modern head unit. Didn't get to listen to it but I'm told it powers on at least. To be honest I would probably have put a bluetooth unit in it myself, so I can stream from my phone -- so I'm not super worried about the lack of original Becker or the extra speakers. This one is not a big issue for me.
• Alarm/locks - Seems the prior owner added a keyless door lock / alarm combo, with the receiver under the carpet in the center console. Actually quite useful probably, but a bit odd for these cars.
• A/C - The car has "Frigiking" A/C, which blows, but not cold. You can hear the idle drop down when it's turned on. Is this going to be a drag to fix?
• Rearview - main rearview mirror (on windshield) is in place, but it's loose on its ball, so if you adjust it, it just falls back down where it was. I see Bud's sells a replacement one. Is this the one to get, or is there some easier fix to make the mirror adjustment "stickier" again?
• Turn signal stalk does not cancel when turning. Is it supposed to?
• The MB-Tex was replaced at some point (again, likely in the ~1995 "restoration" we know so little about), but the seats are saggy as visible in the pictures, and feel a bit lopsided / worn. How hard / expensive is it to just restuff, respring, or replace the seats? The covers seem fine and could presumably be reused.

The car drives nicely, shifts quite smoothly, no squeaks, though I admit I have no other Pagodas to compare it to. The body seems original, straight, and totally rust-free -- checked under the trunk mat, in the wheelwells, etc. All the spot welds appear to be in place under the hood on the front fenders, the firewall pad looks original, and the car generally looks clean. 

I've heard these engines often need rebuilds / new motors around 100k miles. This crate motor could well have 70k+ on it by now, or more, as I have no idea when it was put in.

So with all that said, before I jump into this one I would love to get this group's opinions on:

• General thoughts on the vehicle -- are you put off by the high mileage (at 172k) / lack of known history / color change / stereo & door locks?
• Specific things to look for in the pre-purchase inspection.
• Any way to determine roughly how old / how many miles are on that crate motor?

Would you get this one? Run away? Look for something specific in the PPI? Again, I am not looking for a show car, but I would like something that I can coax into being a reliable semi-regular driver and maintain as such, without crazy amounts of work. Not looking for a project!

Sorry for the long-winded post -- thanks for reading and Merry Christmas!

(If I do get the vehicle, I will certainly mark the occasion by joining as a full member!)

icebone

[Cees Klumper]

Welcome to the group! You'll get plenty of comments on this what appears to be very nice car.
I'd not worry about the factory replacement engine too much, just have it gone through by someone who knows these cars, and can check things like the compression, read the plugs and assess its performance generally. It's quite possible that the cars has done even more than 172,000 miles.
The general condition of this example appears to be good and if regular maintenance and repairs have been done, as it appears it has, there should not be too many surprises. You mentioned one of the main things: absence of rust. Although I see the car spent years up north, so rust is worth double and triple clecking for. All the other things you note are easy fixes, except maybe the airconditioning. If you're handy yourself you should enjoy doing many of the small things yourself, like the seat cushions. I took mine apart for the first time in my own 18+ years of ownership and it's not difficult to do. Replacement pads are available and if there are broken springs you can let those get fixed by a specialist. Anyways, have the pre-purchase inspection done, make sure there's no rust and good luck with the process.

[Pawel66]

A couple of remarks from my side (but better wait for others to confirm/deny/add) before concluding anything.

I see the price of $74k, which is, I think, is quite acceptable for a nice car with minor imperfections.
- decreasing idle rpm on switching on of air condition as well as air condition blowing warm air may turn out to be easy fixes (let's hope for that)
- radio, seat covers (I see lots of wrinkles e.g. on the side of the driver's seat - something has to be fixed there), seat belt, steering wheel, couple of minor imperfections in the engine bay - all these details to me is fun rather than trouble
- turn signal switch should cancel; can be broken, may require just some small fixes, may be wrongly installed or may need to be replaced (this is some dollars to spend)
- documents look great
- underside looks as well taken care of but a driven car - which is fine
- the car looks complete, I think, nothing major missing
- I am sure you decoded options from the options plate to see if they are all there in the car, just as you decoded the original colour
- I would not worry about replacement engine, I would not worry about mileage (which always can be a mystery if the car has gone through restoration)

What you also see:
- the seat covers were replaced
- the carpets - I see heelrest pads as I saw on original carpets, I also see quite "cheesy" finish of the gear shifter surround, looking like finish of carpets of cars from former communist block of the time , but I think we came to conclusion on this forum that this is how it looked for late 280SL production - so carpets may be original
- you car was built for American market - and has Euro lights

You may want to not get distracted by details such as tires. It is a tiny bit in the whole equasion. Just do not drive on old tires!

You will be looking at more critical things, I am sure:
- are the gaps between body panels even?
- if the body bears traces of repair - has this been done in a professional way?
- is the paintwork on aluminum body panels ok (bonnet, trunk, soft top bay, doors)
- do the four digit numbers on body parts match the one from option codes plate (tops, bonnet, gearbox support)
- is everything working - blowers, wipers, etc. - repairs are somewhat difficult there
- rust - is it really rust free - and you have lots of good tips on this forum on this (check those on upper parts of fenders, from Dr Benz, I think); personally I do not believe it is rust free, but I hope I am wrong. Also: some rust can you can get rid of at a price that will not make this deal flop.
- how the spark plugs look like, how the tips of exhaust look like, etc.
- does the engine blow any smoke on revving up, or just all the time
- are there noises that you would not expect to hear

As for the drive: these cars handle really well. You should not experience any odd behaviours while driving - if anything like that happens - something is wrong. And they are not the most quiet of all cars. But it is a regular noise, strange noises you would detect, I am sure.

Look at this: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Buying/PrepurchaseEvaluation  This is the "Buyong a Car" section from Manual on this forum. A must see one, but I think you went through it already.

If the car is somewhat rust free - I think it is a good offer, as long as there are no dead corpses in the closet. I think it represents an offer worth pursuing. You have in the US a lot of specialists from this forum to provide advise on your purchase - they know every nut and bolt in these cars. You follow their advise and you can sleep tight, just have fun fixing the minor imperfections yourself. And it is fun, believe me, like Cees says as well.

[450sl]

Impression of mileage can be done by determinating cilinderwear :if the engine has done more than 2tons some wear should be visable by showing a rim (endoscope entering sparkplughole) at cilinder tdc.  also oilpressure gives some indication.

Seeing the pictures it looks like a nice car one downside for me would be the nonmathing dashcolor.

[neelyrc]

Considering above, at this point the important thing is the ppi by a knowledgeable specialist. I am sure someone in your area of the country will provide a name shortly.  Best of luck progressing through this and welcome to the forum.

[Jonny B]

The car presents very well, it is a dynamite color combination.

There are a couple of items I would suggest you take a close look at.

It is hard to tell from the photos, the moldings on the drivers side, at the bottom door to the small ones in front of the rear wheel, appear to be misaligned. That will be easier to see in person.

There are mismatched screws holding the grill in place. The ones at the top are quite rusty. As Pawell suggested take a real close look for rust, "rust free" all too often that means "the rust is free." You can search that on the forum for extra assistance.

I took a look through the option codes, and the kinder seat is not listed. Also the footwell for the kinder seat is not present. This not a big deal, but will be extra carpeting etc to cover. Everything else matches.

It is very difficult to tell from the photos, but is the engine bay still painted brown? The data plate by the hood latch is still brown, the screws are mismatched, which probably were removed for the restoration work.

Lots of other details, but those are, as Pawell writes, part of the fun. They are the kind of things you can take care of as time, ambition and dollars are available.

[icebone]

Merry Christmas and thank you to everyone who has already replied! Great comments, looking forward to hearing more thoughts -- especially if anyone knows a good place for a thorough PPI in the Bay Area, preferably Oakland / East Bay (I have a separate thread for that one).

I'd not worry about the factory replacement engine too much, just have it gone through by someone who knows these cars, and can check things like the compression, read the plugs and assess its performance generally.

- I would not worry about replacement engine, I would not worry about mileage (which always can be a mystery if the car has gone through restoration)

Thanks! These are precisely the sort of comments I was hoping to get. In some cars a no-numbers, unknown-providence crate motor would be a big problem. Sounds like here it's quite common. I noticed in the Buyers Guide on this forum that sometimes people replace with the motor from a 280 sedan. Is there an easy way to tell if this has been done, from the pictures?

I see the price of $74k, which is, I think, is quite acceptable for a nice car with minor imperfections.

Thank you -- this was also important to me, to get some views on the price point for this example. This car was listed at $85k USD, and the price was recently lowered.

- the carpets - I see heelrest pads as I saw on original carpets, I also see quite "cheesy" finish of the gear shifter surround, looking like finish of carpets of cars from former communist block of the time , but I think we came to conclusion on this forum that this is how it looked for late 280SL production - so carpets may be original
- you car was built for American market - and has Euro lights

Interesting -- I read (elsewhere on this site) that the original carpet had a black rubber seal around the shifter, and that's an easy way to tell if the carpet is original. Given the 'cheesy' finish of the surround on this one, I assumed it was replacement carpet. But this would not have the heel pads? I definitely noticed the Euro lights --- I prefer them, so that's fine (as long as they work).

- rust - is it really rust free - and you have lots of good tips on this forum on this (check those on upper parts of fenders, from Dr Benz, I think); personally I do not believe it is rust free, but I hope I am wrong. Also: some rust can you can get rid of at a price that will not make this deal flop.

Interesting. To me, the car looks rust free -- I assume there is some, somewhere (rusty screw heads or whatever), and I will certainly want to check under the rear seat area etc. But the undercar, wheelwells, and under trunk lid looked good to me.

You have in the US a lot of specialists from this forum to provide advise on your purchase - they know every nut and bolt in these cars. You follow their advise and you can sleep tight, just have fun fixing the minor imperfections yourself.

This is what I would hope to do -- I just need to find an expert in the Bay Area!

Impression of mileage can be done by determinating cilinderwear :if the engine has done more than 2tons some wear should be visable by showing a rim (endoscope entering sparkplughole) at cilinder tdc.  also oilpressure gives some indication.

Seeing the pictures it looks like a nice car one downside for me would be the nonmathing dashcolor.

This is definitely a good idea, I'll see if whatever PPI shop I end up using is able to endoscope it. Might be too fancy for them? As for the dash color, it looks to me like it matches -- it's dark blue, seemingly same as the outside of the car. It's just hard to see in the photos.

The car presents very well, it is a dynamite color combination.

Right? That's just it. Love that pairing, and it doesn't look like it exists very often. I see lots of navy on parchment, but it could be that the only way to end up where this one is is to take a brown/tan and repaint it blue. I'm not the expert on that, but I do like how it looks. Some other color combos don't work for me personally.

It is hard to tell from the photos, the moldings on the drivers side, at the bottom door to the small ones in front of the rear wheel, appear to be misaligned. That will be easier to see in person.

I see what you mean. It looks pretty good in my video walkaround, but it could be that the driver door has some droop. The door squeaks (like a metallic whine) when you open and shut it. I had the same thing on a 1994 Jeep Cherokee I once owned -- the driver's door sagged from years of being opened and closed, so the back end of the door hung lower than the front. If that's happening here, that would probably explain both the squeak and the appearance of misaligned trim you mention. If anyone has experience fixing that particular issue, I would be interested to know...

There are mismatched screws holding the grill in place. The ones at the top are quite rusty. As Pawell suggested take a real close look for rust, "rust free" all too often that means "the rust is free."

This is very interesting, something I didn't notice at all. Are you saying that the presence of rusty screws suggests conditions for rust exist(ed) and there's likely to be rust elsewhere in the car? I'll be sure to double and triple-mention it for the PPI, but I still didn't really see much that concerned me under the vehicle when it was on the lift.

I took a look through the option codes, and the kinder seat is not listed. Also the footwell for the kinder seat is not present. This not a big deal, but will be extra carpeting etc to cover. Everything else matches.

Thank you, good spot. I thought I saw here (in the buyer's guide) that sometimes the kinder seat and seatbelts were not listed on the options? Maybe I'm misremembering. I certainly don't plan to use the kinder seat (as I have keine Kinder myself, and if I did, they surely wouldn't bounce around back there) so I'd likely leave as is -- but interested to see a photo of the footwell as it should be.

It is very difficult to tell from the photos, but is the engine bay still painted brown? The data plate by the hood latch is still brown, the screws are mismatched, which probably were removed for the restoration work.

Fantasy Junction says it's still brown under the hood, and maybe this is what they meant. I had a hard time seeing in the sunlight when the hood was open.

In general, the mood here so far seems to be that this is a (a) fairly priced example, (b) the crate motor is not a big deal, (c) nothing major is missing, (d) i should get a thorough PPI (of course) and make sure to triple-check for rust.

The stereo, seatbelts, and aftermarket door locks don't bug anyone as much as I thought they might.

The other thing I'm wondering that hopefully someone can let me know -- headroom -- I am 6'3 and fit in the car nicely with the Pagoda top on. About 1/2"-1" or so headroom to spare. Didn't try with the soft top though. Can anyone estimate (roughly) how much less headroom there is with the soft top, or is it about the same?

Thanks again very much for all your super helpful comments so far -- definitely interested to hear more views!

Cheers
icebone

[Pawel66]

On the carpet finish:
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=25511.msg182684#msg182684

On the engine: it is definitely better if you have a number matching one, but a replacement engine is not a disqualifier for the price you quoted, I think. See what others will say.

On the rust - I am recalling my experience: my floors looked ok and my sills looked ok. When the chassis guy got to those parts it turned out I had 4 floors and the inner parts of the sills were completely gone, so I ended up replacing all the floors and complete sills. I would not be able to detect this myself...

[Benz Dr.]

Don't expect everything from a PPI. Even experts miss things even when they appear to be OK because no one can see through paint or inside mechanical parts so look at a PPI as a guide. If the car was a POS then I'd expect someone easily be able to tell you that. If it's a great car the only real question is, how great is it?

 I wouldn't get too hung up on small details like the numbers on removable panels or the head light notches. Or at least don't turn down a good car because of lack of them.

[TheEngineer]

These are great cars! I had a blue one in the '70s, it was a 230SL and foolishly sold it when my family got too large. For my 72nd birthday I bought me a red one. They are a ton of fun. Mine was sold with the assurance that is "is a sure chick magnet" and I sometimes take it to the Mercedes of Seattle and complain that this feature does not work! It is always good for a cup of coffee. You will find that these cars are pretty easy to work on and, very important, parts are available, even obscure ones, like little clips or the plastic chafe molding around the horns of the bumpers. You will have to put up with men and women who come up to you and admire your car: What a beautiful car! It is new? At times I have consented to give somebody a ride for a cup of coffee at Starbuck's. It has more than enough power to easily keep up with traffic. You have about the same head room under the soft top. Rust is the big issue: Look around the upper rim of the headlights. Rust is repairable, but expensive. You should really be capable to do much of the work yourself and you have to get some special tools, not immediately, but as your knowledge grows and as you need them. Your engine without S/N is a "Austausch Motor" an exchange engine Mercedes used to supply. The installer was supposed to stamp them with the numbers of the engine he removed and sent back. These were brand new engines. Yes, engines from sedans can be used and you can tell by their S/N. But used engines are often bored oversize and you can only do that a few times before the distance between cylinders becomes too small. The book says cylinder wear is about .01 mm for 10,000 Km that translates to .0004 inch for 6,200 miles. Wear limit is about .008 inch. measured in diameter just where the top ring is. Bottom line: If you like and willing to put up with and have the money to spend: go for it! (sounds like about a woman?)

[icebone]

In addition to the photos on Fantasy Junction site, I'll post here some of the ones I took myself when I drove the car late last week.

[icebone]

And some more, since everyone loves photos!

Your thoughts appreciated!

[icebone]

And some more

[icebone]

And on the lift.

[icebone]

Final few

[Shvegel]

Judging by the brown folder in the documentation you might want to contact these guys:

http://www.silverstarrestorations.com/

They might have some information on the engine etc. 

The sedan engine and roadster are identical except for serial number and since you have no serial number no worries there. 

The car seems to have most of it’s original equipment and it presents as a good future restoration if you decided to go that route. However besides the above mentioned incorrect radio etc I did notice the original horns are missing.

The body should be your major concern.  The car presents well in the pictures with original undercoating etc.  i would look at the areas around the front and rear sills for any sign of blending where a repair may be hiding.   My go to spot for rust checking is to put the car on a lift and reach up above the front tire.  On the inboard side of the wheel well way up high is a fore and aft stringer that is about 3”
High and 2” thick.  Feel the top of that stringer for rust.  If there are holes up there it usually means the car has been rusty and glossed over.  Mechanicals are a concern with our cars but rust is a pit of hell from which there is no escape.

[Pawel66]

Great pictures of a, hopefully, a great car!

On the nothes near the headlights - perhaps it is my eyes, but on one of the pictures from the advertisement I think I could see them, on another I think they are not there. As much as Dan is saying not to be too cautious about the details, the absence of nothes (and I really cannot say if they are there or not) would suggest some work done to body, not only spraying a different colour. If some significant work was done to body - then I would check for rust as much as I can.

The details: it is just about how far you want to take this car in terms of details and also perhaps a negotiation point. Speaking of that: I am not sure (again, my eyes perhaps) if the fuel filler cup is correct. Horns are most likely not correct (unless they started fitting this kind of horns for late 280SL, but I never heard of that). Original horns are some $$$.

Again, I have once spoken to an elder gentleman from the Classic Center about the type of carpet on my car and he said clearly: they were fitting whatever they had in the warehouse for production. If they had blue upholstery with square weave carpet in 1970 and they did not have th enew type carpet - they fitted the square weave - might have asked the customer before if it was ok.

[Pawel66]

The body should be your major concern.  The car presents well in the pictures with original undercoating etc.  i would look at the areas around the front and rear sills for any sign of blending where a repair may be hiding.   My go to spot for rust checking is to put the car on a lift and reach up above the front tire.  On the inboard side of the wheel well way up high is a fore and aft stringer that is about 3”
High and 2” thick.  Feel the top of that stringer for rust.  If there are holes up there it usually means the car has been rusty and glossed over.  Mechanicals are a concern with our cars but rust is a pit of hell from which there is no escape.

This is the place I was referring to before - above the front wheel, etc.

[Shvegel]

If it feels like this one run away.

[icebone]

Hi Shvegel,

Great insight, thanks.

Judging by the brown folder in the documentation you might want to contact these guys:

http://www.silverstarrestorations.com/

They might have some information on the engine etc. 

Great idea -- though I don't think that's the shop. The one you linked is in the Carolinas, while the folder says Silver Star 805-497-1515. The 805 area code is Thousand Oaks / Santa Barbara and points north. The problem is "Silver Star" is a super common name for mercedes places -- indeed, the dealership my father bought his 1977 240D was called Silver Star Motors, and that was in Ontario, Canada. Digging around (predictably) reveals several shops in CA with that name, but the most promising is:

http://www.silverstarauto.com/

Which seems to be just the parent group for Mercedes Benz Thousand Oaks. Based on where the current owner (and maybe previous owner) was said to live -- and the fact that the car last changed hands at Heritage Motors in LA -- this is probably where someone had it serviced. I would be surprised if they did the restoration, so that has run cold again.

I do have the info for the current owner, but don't want to contact her directly while still working with the consignment shop, and she doesn't seem to know much of its history anyway -- she got it from Heritage in 2005 and doesn't even know it has a replacement motor.

Cheers
icebone

[Jonny B]

To be specific about fitting in the car with the soft top - I have two good friends, one 6' 5" and the other 6' 8" and they have absolutely no problem fitting in the car.

And yes, if the screws on the grill show rust, then there were likely conditions for it to develop. Double or triple checking is definitely the top priority.

Check out scottcorvette's journey with the restoration of his car on this site. A most interesting tale of hidden stuff.
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=21397.msg190204#msg190204

[icebone]

PPI is scheduled for tomorrow, Thursday — the car arrived there this evening — will post here what he finds!

[icebone]

OK, the PPI is done -- here's what was found. Any thoughts appreciated! Will probably have to decide tomorrow, after I see the car (briefly) in person again.

Overall
Car has been maintained but not by a 280SL expert
Price is fair in his opinion
Not a show car, seems pretty solid, the issues it has are largely cosmetic or maintenance issues
Lack of owner history; not uncommon; getting one with full documented history will cost a premium, and many are in no better mechanical shape than this one
He just worked on one that was bought for $140k without inspection, and needed more work than this one would

History
Car was not maintained by a pagoda expert - it's had work done, but the chassis lube points look like they've never been lubed at all. That is job one to do
Car has not been restored - just maintenance & paint job
Lack of owner history is not uncommon on these cars
People pay a big premium for full owner records - he sold a one owner, full records car for 125k that was mechanically no better than this one

Rust
Inner headlight cup, right side, is rusted out and was replaced (they seem to have left the old one in there?)
Cosmetic / surface rust around hardtop
Cosmetic / surface rust in hood cowl/vent drain near rubber plug
He thinks the rust happened early in its life when it lived in NY state
No issues now that he can see - looks solid - rockers, floor boards, rear light panel, trunk floor, nose, all good.
I asked repeatedly if he thinks rust is an issue in this car, since people say that's the #1 thing to be concerned about. He said this one was good, and it should not be an issue, he thinks it happened when it lived on the east coast in the 70s and most vulnerable areas seem solid

Mechanical
Need to lube chassis lube points, as above
A heater hose is about to burst -- most hoses are replaced/fine, they missed this one
Differential mounts are old, need to be replaced
Brake pedal stop is missing - quite common on these cars
Power steering pump has a leak, not sure how major
Shocks were done recently, brake hoses, pads, rotors
Transmission seems to have been rebuilt recently (which matches what the dealer says on their site)
Wipers work

Engine
Engine is solid - no smoking or noises
Starts right up, hot or cold
Minor oil leak from front and rear crankcase, nothing unusual
Compression = fine, 145-160 on all cylinders
Inside looks fine - no oil on piston, just carbon buildup
Probably replaced around late 80s or early 90s, by his guess

Body
Driver's door sounds different when you knock on it - no sound deadening, and hinges / cams are different. Something happened there at some point, door was replaced. Not sure why.
All numbers matching (hood, top, etc)
Molding on driver side looks to have been riveted on instead of screwed, at some point, slightly misaligned
No "notches" on headlamps
Color was changed from brown to blue, engine bay not repainted
No idea what is under the paint. His guess is that the clearcoat peeled, which was apparently very common on red and brown cars
Minor dent in passenger side door near handle
Seals around windows should be replaced

Tops
Surface rust around hard top lower corners
Seals are shot
Rear window delaminating - just a cosmetic issue
Soft top has two small holes where they rub on hinges
Soft top window is clear

Trim & tires
Tires are old and should be replaced (we knew this)
Seals are old, need to be replaced

Interior
Seats - horsehair pad is entirely missing, MBTex covers are in good shape, but seats need to be redone
Seatbelts frayed and need to be redone
Turn signal stalk needs to be replaced - $600 part (or so)
Heater fan switch feels crunchy, but works
A logo is missing on heater
Wipers work fine
Carpet not original
AC was 'always a joke' on these cars - good for slightly cooling your knees, nothing more - this has been converted to R134 which makes matters worse, don't expect much from it

There we have it! All its secrets laid bare... (or most of them)

Would appreciate your thoughts on this example! Again, not looking for a show car. My take away was that he was not concerned with the rust (?) and that the issues are largely maintenance ones.

[Garry]

Looks to me like you have a winner there.


Some cost to remove the engine and ancillary items to respray the engine bay and bonnet, you could put the notches back in at the same time.


All the rest are fairly minor items that can be fixed.


Price certainly looks like it is a very reasonable buy.


Good luck and we look forward to seeing you around the Group in the future.


Garry
Membership Administrator

[rusty747]

Can I ask who ended up doing the PPI?