Author Topic: I rolled my pagoda last night...  (Read 64538 times)

Pinder

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2018, 20:06:02 »
John, Sounds like you are having fun with the paint part of this.

I am by no means professional at painting. I painted two Pagodas using single stage paint. Here are some things I learnt.

1. If I did it again I would use Base coat and clear like you are doing. I thought the single stage would be easier but I  think back and I would say it is not.
2. Definitely get the temp correct 70 degrees). It makes all the difference.
3. Stick the the flash times  (10 to 12 mins). (depends on your instructions follow them. This is important so that successive layer meld  together. I think this is important when you wet sand and buff. This may be less of a problem with Clear coat but with single stage where the color you are wet sanding and buffing, I noticed its possible to get a ever so slight shade difference on areas are where i wet sanded past the top coat. Its only visible with the right light conditions such as using an led light but I noticed it and can only think that maybe the flash time was too long.
4. If you get any runs in the clear coat do not panic just keep going. Minor runs can be wet sanded out  so can any orange peel and so can any insects or dust particles. I tried to build a spray booth then just gave up on it. I sprayed in my garage , cleaning floor and mopping floor down. I covered things around the garage with drop cloths used some box fans taped to windows as extractor fans
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2018, 03:47:23 »
Thanks again Pinder

Even though its 49 degrees out it looks like I can get the metal temp up to 70 degress now using three heaters including a small one in the booth. Standox quotes its dry time at 68 degrees so I am shooting for 68 to 70. I finished my booth enough to test today and its currently blowing more air in than it sucks out, which meants it forces overspray out the cracks  towards the heaters and possibly leaves too much overspray inside the booth to leave lights inside. I am adding a large floor fan to the exhaust tomorrow to hopefully get an even flow. If I was painting in warm weather with the barn doors open I wouldn't care about overspray being pushed out the cracks. Now I am less worried about the dust in the booth and more concerned about overspray outside the booth requiring me to keep the heat off while spraying.

Buffing through more than a coat of the clear should not leave any rings, but I will definately have rings if I buff down to the thin metalic base coats. Hense the reason for going with four quarts of clear. I buffed enough clear over color coats back in the days of laquer to know the risk of buffing to far. I won't sand the edges, just up to them, and my buffer is a professional orbital model that stops spinning if you put pressure on a corner. I just know though that I can make mistakes not haveing done this for thirty years, and I don't want any chance of having to touch up the color now or later.

I also did find out that is recommended to add hardner to the paint used in the engine bay for durability purposes. The correct PPG paint for the trunk also uses hardner for the same purpose.

I didn't know before that the flash times between clear coats affects long-time adhesion. I need to call dupont on that as I may need to leave the heaters off too long betwen coats for that.

I guess I could always consder the water base option?
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

Pinder

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2018, 17:48:49 »
John,

If you are using Acrylic Ureathane (AU) which I think you are then the Hardner is required. Infact when you mix it it will b something like 3 parts paint 1 part hardener and a bit of thinner if required (a small dash). This paint system uses the catalyst to do the drying. It wont dry properly without it. Just read there data sheet. Also with most hardeners they have Isocynites in them. Please use a Good Mask / respirator.  Issued a 3M full face mask with carbon filters.

The flash time is very important if you go beyond the flash time adhesion may be affected.

I dont know if your car is Metalic color or not. Both the ones I painted was solid color which meant I divided the spraying . To keep Solvents and spray down I did sections, like Frame one day  doors hood and trunk another and roof on a different day. Its more work cleaning gun etc but it kept the spray down. Not sure this is an option for you depends on color.

Now when it came to wetsanding the clear and buffing I also used the random orbit buffer with foam pads on the first car. This took some work to get a good shine. I find that using an orbital buffer with a wool pad is so much quicker. You will see swirl marks / halo but that can them be fixed with the random orbit polisher.





1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2018, 22:50:21 »
 Bottom side after steam
Cleaning. You can see the color of the original schutz
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2018, 22:53:51 »
This is after I applied the 3m beige schutz. The gray primer is PPG dp40 covered in a Matt clear.  Ppg wanted big dollars for the Matt clear but my dupont dealer has a Matt clear for $50 bucks including the activator.
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2018, 22:59:10 »
Waalaa! 

This is after spraying “Quazmoline” 2k paint. Seals up the schutz real nice to keep it clean. 

Kinda looks pumpkin colored.  Not real pretty but as close as I can get it to original. 

Painting the trunk is next.
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2018, 23:13:07 »
I should have no problem doing the engine compartment, door bottoms and inside edge, and dash next weekend.  But I may need to wait for warmer weather to do the body.  My booth seems to do great with keeping overspray in and its out but I can still smell the thinners outside the booth.  As such I’m not comfortable leaving the heat on while spraying, which doesn’t allow me to complete all Coates within the required respray time.  I will see if I can rent some heaters that don’t use an open flame.

Other option is to put a hole in the wall with an 8 inch vent connecting to my torpedo heater outside. It will be running on fresh air. Have
To think about that one.
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

Pinder

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2018, 17:33:26 »
looking really nice.
1970 280 SL Light Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC Limited Slip Diff.

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2018, 23:39:30 »
Thanks Pinder. Glad you gave me a heads up on the dry time between coats. I didn't realize that would cause an adhesion problem.
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2018, 23:33:20 »
Thanks Pinder. Glad you gave me a heads up on the dry time between coats. I didn't realize that would cause an adhesion problem.

I called Axalta today and asked if I would have adhesion problems if I can't spray between a half hour to hour between coats. They said I shouldn't have a problem with adhesion. They were more concerned that my kerosene heater doesn't cause residue on the paint. My guess is the short time between coats is more of a minimum flash off time for the paint to cure properly. Axalta is now selling paint that can be sprayed continuously without any set up time in between coats to get jobs out the door quicker. Another reason for a short respray cycle may be to get the next coat to stick better without runs. I would always spray and light tack coat first when spraying enamel to give the heavier coats something to stick to without runs.

John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2019, 02:16:26 »
Well lets just say its been a long winter but I finally have progress to post. I sprayed the car this week and I am extremely happy how the home-made booth worked out. Very little dust in the paint even though the high-solids clear took about three hours before it became tack-free. Also to get high-solids to atomize evenly without much orange peal you have to blow a lot of overspray, which my booth cleared out well within the 3 minute standard I read about for a decent spray booth. I had to add a fifth intake fan to get it to do so. 8 total 20 inch household which aren't very effective plus my two large shop fans.

I used Standox which is the original manufacturer for Beige Gray on our cars. I tried the much less expensive Nason just for my test panels and the color was off.

The trick I learned to spray the high-solids clear successfully was to heat the paint and hardener to 90+ degrees before I sprayed to make it flow easier. I was painting at 70 degrees temperature in the barn. I heated the paint safely in a 5 gallon bucket of water warmed by a small heater meant for keeping livestock water warm.
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2019, 02:29:31 »
Its suppose to be 70 in Cleveland tomorrow so I am hoping to roll the car outside finally and spray the black parts that I can not powder coat. I am puzzled a bit at it appears that some parts should be more of a satin finish such as the steering column where parts on the front suspension are more semigloss. Of course getting the colors to match the finish you want can be a problem in itself. Below is the section of the trunk floor I replaced sprayed in PPG 164 dark grey (at $90 a quart - gulp). Its much shinier than I like, perhaps I put in on to thick on the wheel well.
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2019, 02:33:14 »
oops pic is below. Also to further fuel the debate of is it dark gray or is black, the dark gray I sprayed looks identical to what I powder-coated in black. I will know more tomorrow when I start to spray the suspension parts where I am using a heavy duty ceramic black.
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2019, 02:53:33 »
I am providing the below pics for those that haven't seen how the hub bap stencils work. I took one of our other members advice and first sprayed the hub caps with an etching primer that sticks to the metal better than the basecoat. I previously tried it in my old hub caps and it was very hard to scratch off. I didn't take picture of the final hub caps as it was late when I got that far but I will take some and post them tomorrow. I first painted my old hub caps back in November thinking they looked great despite my son pointing out how bad the old chrome looked against the new paint. Taking his advice I looked at rebuffing and replating the old caps and ended up buying new chrome hub caps for about the same price from the classic center - $1300. I can't believe how much better they look than my old ones.

I found a small touch up gun at a low pressure was much easier to get in the corners of the star. I also ended up pulling the star stencil off when I sprayed the clear in order to get even applications in the corners without causing runs or solvent pop. I didn't do that on my old hub caps and I have a number of runs to scrape off of them.
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

cfm65@me.com

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2019, 09:26:12 »
Hi John,
I get goose bump and the cold shivers every time I see your post heading, ‘I JUST ROLLED MY PAGODA LAST NIGHT’

And then again, I get goose bumps and warm shivers every time I look at your progress.

Congrats on a job WELL DONE.
Regards
Chris
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2019, 12:57:48 »
Thanks Chris. You just made my day!
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

cfm65@me.com

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2019, 18:55:26 »
👍👍
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top

kampala

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2019, 19:30:16 »
Very nice progress.  Looks fantastic.  Is that color 726 or 728?

Keep at it.

250sl - later - manual
280sl - 1971 - Auto - LSD

Aslam

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2019, 00:56:34 »
728. It looks much darker than it really is in the booth. Below is a pic today out in the sun.
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2019, 01:16:50 »
The finished hub caps
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2019, 03:10:41 »
Haven’t been able to do much with the car this last month but I got my chrome back yesterday. I used Custom Chrome Plating here in Grafton Ohio. They are used by high end restorers accross the country yet their prices were much cheaper than quotes from other shops recommended on our site. The finish is perfect and the shine is very deep. Highly recommend their work.
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

ja17

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2019, 06:51:09 »
Looks great John !
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
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johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2019, 11:25:30 »
Thanks Joe!
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #48 on: October 15, 2019, 01:28:34 »
Its been a while since I posted any update. Its been a summer of boating, honey doo's and refinishing individual parts. I did get most of the front suspension put together though. Below I m finally putting the engine compartment together. Very satisfying and fun! Its great to finally be picking parts up off of the floor rather than putting new ones down.

Oh - the fenders looked whited-out because they are covered by shipping foam wrap.
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540

johnk

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Re: I rolled my pagoda last night...
« Reply #49 on: October 15, 2019, 01:36:03 »
I can't tell you how much easier it is working under the dash and around the engine compartment with the car on a rotisserie. I pulled the dash apart before it was on the rotisserie which meant it was all done on my back.
John Krystowski
Avon Ohio
1968 Euro 280sl under restoration
2016 Jag F-Type R sold june 2021
1950 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS For sale
2008 E350
2007 GL 450
2019 BMW 540