Author Topic: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing  (Read 11933 times)

RobSirg

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A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« on: August 08, 2014, 10:00:36 »
Guys,

I have poured over the few photo's posted elsewhere of the original engine bays - I think you know the ones. So I now have a few questions :

1) On both these examples the rubber plugs in the side walls of the engine bay are not visible which confirms they were sprayed over. I believe this has been covered before. When I restored my '69 I also noticed my plugs had paint overspray which was flaking off so I simply helped it along thinking it was some previous owners poor work. The question is - if you were respraying your engine bay would you spray over these or not? I'm going to great lengths to give the original appearance elsewhere so why not? My only reservation is that I fear many onlookers (including some judges) may also consider this careless finishing off. (especially when it starts flaking off) Thoughts?

2) What is the finish to the blanking plates on the engine block? I have seen many photos and noticed some have gone with silver (or clear) Cad whilst others have gone with gold Cad. I am even thinking of simply masking and spraying with HT silver paint without removing them as they are barely visible once complete.

3) What is the correct finish to the small diameter brake vacuum lines in the engine bay? Once again I have seen silver and gold examples and it is near impossible to see them on the original engine bay photos.

4) What about the bracket to the ignition Coil and the clamps to the Air Filter Hose? I think silver in both cases.

Thanks in advance
1969 280SL Auto RHD 906G,  H'top 387H, Parchm't
1970 280SL Man. RHD Dark Red 542G, Bamboo MB Tex
1962 E Type Jag BRG with Tan
1974 White Alfa Spider 2000
2023 Range Rover
1982 280TE (my daily)
1967 Alfa Spider ("Duetto") Red
1977 Yellow 911 Targa
1991 Nissan Figaro
1959 190SL Black
1970 300SEL 3.5

mbzse

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2014, 13:28:19 »
Number four is silver, yes
/Hans in Sweden

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/Hans S

Jonny B

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2014, 15:28:41 »
I believe the small diameter braking lines would be the natural finish, dull silver/gray. They would not be yellow cad.
Jonny B
1967 250 SL Auto, DB 568
1970 280 SL Auto, DB 904
1966 Morris Mini Minor

KevinC

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2014, 15:48:06 »
Hmmm... I don't have holes in the side walls of the engine bay so therefore no rubber plugs. I certainly have seen them on other cars, too but assumed that these were an "after factory" attempt at getting some rust inhibitor inside the inner fenders. Does anyone know for sure?

BaronYoungman

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2014, 17:07:45 »
I believe only 280sl had the plugs, at least all the ones I owned 230sl no plugs 280sl plugs and not painted.
Bob
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KevinC

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2014, 18:59:15 »
My 280SL from last year...also no holes/plugs. Both cars were initially registered in California. The red car had no rust inhibitor on the undercarriage or anywhere else that we could find. 

garymand

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2014, 19:23:17 »
Kevin, nice to see a clean original (the white one).  My 250 has no holes or plugs.  It looks the same as yours, except I wish I had a fan shroud and more paint on my booster.

Is that a custome made shroud (on the white one)?  I am inspired to duplicate that.  How is it configured on the drivers side next to the radiator?  I'd love to see a picture of one off the car.  I honestly think mine never had one, but is it possible the 250 shroud was plastic?

Gary
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 19:41:54 by garymand »
Gary
Early 250SL German version owned since 71, C320, R350, 89 Porsche 944 Turbo S

66andBlue

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2014, 19:29:29 »
Brian at Motoringinvestments has researched this topic extensively. On 280SL with holes:
The inner fender wall rubber plugs were installed by the factory after the primer coat but before the color coat and were painted over. Click on the picture to take a closer look. The "yellowing" is actually the paint aging and reacting with the properties of the rubber. Since the rubber originally had a coat of wax on it the paint didn't stick well and has flaked off over the years.


Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

KevinC

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2014, 22:18:44 »
So how do we explain the cars with no holes?

Rolf-Dieter ✝︎

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2014, 01:42:32 »
Hi Kevin,

Dayshift was always pure German workforce they hated holes of any kind ... Nightshift had some Swiss technicians they sneaked holes into the engine bay here and then when the floor supervisor was at a beer break  ... just kidding ... no pun intended  ;D

It is a good question .... just checked mine, I have three rubber plugs along each inside on the inside wall of the fender (driver side anyway, guessing it be the same on the passenger side ~ I park so close together now that I cannot get in there due to a wheelchair lift I had to install for my wife). I'll take some photos tomorrow at daylight :)
DD 2011 SL 63 AMG and my 69 Pagoda 280 SL

tel76

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2014, 09:08:17 »
On the last restoration I did a 1968 280sl there were no holes, on the new inner wings/fenders (genuine MB) I fitted there are holes, can I suggest that the holes were introduced on the production line after 1968.
Eric

mbzse

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2014, 11:07:40 »
Quote from: tel76
.../... can I suggest that the holes were introduced on the production line after 1968../..
Yes the holes were introduced in factory production in the beginning of Oct 1968. Subsequently, the factory issued a Technical change document describing where the holes could (should) be drilled on customer's (already produced) cars, in order to increase corrosion protection.

There are very many locations for these holes. On some holes (like the side walls of the engine compartment) rubber plugs were fitted. When a car was manufactured with these, they were spray painted over. When retrofitted (by a M-B workshop) the plugs were bare rubber.
See reply #3 and 4 in this posting http://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=15001.msg103049#msg103049
/Hans in Sweden
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« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 16:29:14 by mbzse »
/Hans S

KevinC

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2014, 12:10:10 »
Great info gents...thanks! My 280SL was from July 1968 so "no holes" now makes sense.

KevinC

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2014, 12:29:26 »
Kevin, nice to see a clean original (the white one).  My 250 has no holes or plugs.  It looks the same as yours, except I wish I had a fan shroud and more paint on my booster.

Is that a custome made shroud (on the white one)?  I am inspired to duplicate that.  How is it configured on the drivers side next to the radiator?  I'd love to see a picture of one off the car.  I honestly think mine never had one, but is it possible the 250 shroud was plastic?

Gary

Gary,

I can't tell you much about the fan shroud except that it was on the car 10 years ago when I bought it. A quick look on the SLS site shows it only on the 280SL and labeled "USA". 

Kevin

66andBlue

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2014, 16:27:33 »
Yes the holes were introduced in factory production in the beginning of Oct 1968. ......
Hans,
do you have a copy of the MB "Technical change document" that you mention?
My 280SL (005600) was produced early in October 1968 and it has the holes. Also there is an entry in the Engelen book indicating that with VIN 5620 (03-Oct-1968) a dip-electrophoresis painting procedure was introduced that required additional drain holes in the chassis:  Zusätzliche Ablauflöcher in der Bodengruppe wegen der Einführung der Eletrophorese Tauchlackierung
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 16:31:58 by 66andBlue »
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Peter h

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2014, 17:33:12 »
My silver is from mid September 68 and dont have them . Vin  #5480
Peter
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mbzse

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2014, 20:36:33 »
Quote from: 66andBlue
Do you have a copy of the MB "Technical change document" that you mention?
This one is on the VdH webpage. It is in .pdf format
/Hans in Sweden
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/Hans S

66andBlue

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2014, 22:32:33 »
Thank you Hans, quite a useful document for restorations.
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

RobSirg

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2014, 12:50:33 »
Thanks Guys,

A most interesting thread - before posting the question I simply assumed all engine bays had the holes. Possibly because I am mostly looking at photos '69, '70 & '71 engine bays. Just getting back to my original questions - I am thinking :

1) I might get the engine bay sprayed without the rubber with the plugs so as to cover all metal (even though it wasn't done that way originally). IE: Try painting the rubber plugs - if it looks OK, I can leave them painted - if not, it should not be difficult to remove the paint from them (or simply buy more plugs). I would say nearly 100% of the restored engine bays I have seen have the rubber plugs unpainted. As much as I like to have it original looking - I'm not into recreating shoddy work.

2) Still don't know the original finish on the engine block blanking plates and don't really care anymore. I cant imagine I will remove them so I might give them a spray with HT Silver paint in place. Defy anyone to see more tan a glimpse once the engine bay is complete.

3) Will go with natural finish (Clear Cad) on the vacuum brake lines.

4) Ditto on the ignition coil bracket and filter hose clamps

Cheers.

1969 280SL Auto RHD 906G,  H'top 387H, Parchm't
1970 280SL Man. RHD Dark Red 542G, Bamboo MB Tex
1962 E Type Jag BRG with Tan
1974 White Alfa Spider 2000
2023 Range Rover
1982 280TE (my daily)
1967 Alfa Spider ("Duetto") Red
1977 Yellow 911 Targa
1991 Nissan Figaro
1959 190SL Black
1970 300SEL 3.5

Garry

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2014, 23:36:49 »
Engine block plates look nice cad plated but of course when the inlet is on you dont get to see much other from underneath :D

Garry
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RobSirg

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2014, 08:51:52 »
Agreed Garry - your impressive engine pic is already in my file for reference and blatant copying.

I'm also curious about the 280SL in the background. what do you know about it? Looks very similar in colour to my '69. Does it have a two-tone roof?

Cheers

Rob
1969 280SL Auto RHD 906G,  H'top 387H, Parchm't
1970 280SL Man. RHD Dark Red 542G, Bamboo MB Tex
1962 E Type Jag BRG with Tan
1974 White Alfa Spider 2000
2023 Range Rover
1982 280TE (my daily)
1967 Alfa Spider ("Duetto") Red
1977 Yellow 911 Targa
1991 Nissan Figaro
1959 190SL Black
1970 300SEL 3.5

Garry

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2014, 09:37:57 »
Rob,

It was in Reinhard Klaver’s workshop where I had my engine overhauled.  I dont remember it being a two tone but it certainly looks so in the photo although it may just be a lighting trick to the eye.

Garry
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Brisbane. Australia
1969 MB 280SL 5 speed RHD SOLD.
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery.
1972 MB 280CE Auto RHD 906G Blue Grey
2005 MB A200.
2006 MB B200
2019 Izuzu DMax 4x4 with Slide-on camper.
2022 Volvo XC40 Twin Electric

garymand

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Re: A few questions re: Engine Bay finishing
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2014, 17:01:03 »
Curious Kevin, the white car looks to be a 230 or maybe very early 250 (radiator overflow tank)  so no fan shroud would be proper, but it has an 8 blade fan and the shroud looks like it is made of sheet metal rather than plastic. 
Gary
Early 250SL German version owned since 71, C320, R350, 89 Porsche 944 Turbo S