Need Help ASAP! Headlight Notches

[FloridaBIll]

Hello everyone, I need help with the infamouos headlight "notches".  My car is getting full body-work and I decided to have this feature put back into the body (it was filled in from previous work).  I supplied many pics and gave what I thought was good descriptions but the final product is not right!
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The nothches are much too long and look odd.  Motoringinvestments.com has good pics which I supplied, can anyone comment on exact mearsurements?
EX. 10mm long X 2 mm deep...etc.
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Another questions...does anyone on this board live in Central Florida? I be willing to pay gas/time/etc. if you could drive to my shop and show them the real thing...I think this is the only way to really get it right..seeing it in person, noting the depth, etc.  In fact I think this is the only way to get it done right, I live in the Melbourne Fl area.
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Thanks in advance for your repsonses.

[bpossel]

Here is the detail that I have collected:

The notch is about 12-14 mm long and no more than 1mm deep.  Notches line up with notch on headlight chrome trim ring.
Good Luck!
Bob

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

[hill]

quote:Originally posted by bpossel

Here is the detail that I have collected:

The notch is about 12-14 mm long and no more than 1mm deep.  Notches line up with notch on headlight chrome trim ring.
Good Luck!
Bob

bpossel  (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL  /  '97 E320

I just looked at 14 113's after a hour or so. I know that mine is notched when the headlight rings were pulled. But it will not show up after the third or fourth paint job. Only  three cars had the notch exceed the headlight frame. The question on the notch is do you want to drive or go to amelia.

Happy Benzing
Darryl, Hill
350 SL4.5 #60
1967 250sl "California"

[Keshav Sabharwal]

Im writing from Germany and just bought two brandnew front fenders, original MB parts but they dont have the headlamp notches! I believe/ guess that ONLY the original fenders (from factory) had them. Since the new parts dont have them, Im wondering if its 'right' to have them 'installed', after the fact?
Keshav

[mbzse]

quote:Originally posted by Keshav Sabharwal

Im writing from Germany and just bought two brandnew front fenders, original MB parts but they dont have the headlamp notches!

This is fully correct. Please note, that these famous W113 fender notches are there to match the nick in the like-sided headlight chrome frame. The notches were made, by hand, by workers on the factory assembly line. Thus, they are not uniform either in exact shape or measurements (size). But, they were present on every car that left the production line.
Saved the Mercedes spare parts handling from having a left- and rightsided variant of the headlight chrome frame (trim ring).

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/Hans in Sweden

[hkollan]

Hi,

I don't think there is an 100% accurate answer to how these notched where originally sculptured, since they where handcrafted using lead
at the factory. Also most probably by different persons during the production period of the pagodas.
Many "reconstructed" notches seem to be made too long.
On the very few original paint cars that I've seen the notches where around 14-17mm long and a few millimeters deep.

Hans Kollandsrud

Cuenca, Spain

1968 280 SL 387 Blue met. w/parchment leather - Aut.
1971 280 SL 050 White w/blue leather - Man.
1971 280 SL 462 Beige met. w/brown leather Aut.  Under restoration
1968 280 SL 180 Silver w/Red Leather - Manual

[psmith]

It was interesting at our Pagoda meeting last weekend about half of the 11 cars had the notches, but they were all different!  I think all the cars had been repainted at some point, so I assume they changed slightly when they were put back before painting.

Pete S.

[Mike Hughes]

quote:Originally posted by psmith

It was interesting at our Pagoda meeting last weekend about half of the 11 cars had the notches, but they were all different!  I think all the cars had been repainted at some point, so I assume they changed slightly when they were put back before painting.

Pete S.

I saw a Pagoda over the weekend that had only one notch - the other fender was plain!

- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
  1966 230SL Auto P/S
  Havanna Brown (408)
  Light Beige (181)
  Cream M-B Tex (121)

[Bob G]

Just a historical note. The famous nose notches were not a design by designer Paul Bracq. They instead were the line up markers for where the nose was leaded to the front fenders and were information marks for replacing the front nose so it was square with the front fenders and hood.

Because these marks which have become infamous for buying clues to pre accident damage when inspecting a Pagoda SL, many restorers now recognized their importance, just as the Cleft in Kurt Douglas's chin.

Bob Geco

[hkollan]

quote:Originally posted by Bob G

Just a historical note. The famous nose notches were not a design by designer Paul Bracq. They instead were the line up markers for where the nose was leaded to the front fenders and were information marks for replacing the front nose so it was square with the front fenders and hood.

Because these marks which have become infamous for buying clues to pre accident damage when inspecting a Pagoda SL, many restorers now recognized their importance, just as the Cleft in Kurt Douglas's chin.

Bob Geco

That explanation for why the notches where put on these car does not seem logical to me.
In my opinion Mbzse/Hans' reasoning for their existence makes more sense. What (source) do you base your historical note on?

Hans Kollandsrud

Cuenca, Spain

1968 280 SL 387 Blue met. w/parchment leather - Aut.
1971 280 SL 050 White w/blue leather - Man.
1971 280 SL 462 Beige met. w/brown leather Aut.  Under restoration
1968 280 SL 180 Silver w/Red Leather - Manual

[willsam]

I am pleased to report that when my 280SL was painted a couple years ago the bodyshop owner said the car's sheetmetal was perfect.  It was the most perfect body he had seen in years.  All the panels were original, no body damage, no accident damage, etc. only a couple of body dings.

The notches are on the nose and are perfect.  I was under the impression the notches were place on the nose to line up with the ridge on the chrome headlight door.  

This all starts with the ridge that runs along the outer fenders, starting at the headlight door.  There is a corresponding ridge on the headlight door.  Since the headlight doors are interchangeable a 2nd ridge is needed on the opposite side of the door.  And that 2nd ridge needs a place to match up on the inner part of the nose.  Hence the notches.

Just my opinion and based solely on how I think the Germans would approach the situation.
Will Samples

[psmith]

Will,
That explanation makes the most sense to me.  But I have always wondered, shouldn't it be more of a ridge than a notch?  I know they're hard to photograph, but could you post a picture of yours?

Pete S.

[Raymond]

Mike Salemi has a good relationship with Mr. Braq.  Perhaps he could write him and answer this question once and for all.

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

[J. Huber]

Revisiting this as several of us have notches on our minds...

Need a favor. Could somebody with a nice notch steal their wives sewing tape and measure the distance from the fender-side ridge over the top to the "notch". I am thinking its about 24 centimeters.

I think about 5/8 or about 16 mm looks like a good length. And about 1.5 mm deep.

[Richard Madison]

Not sure if this will help but as no one has posted a notch photo yet,  here's one to look at.

The car was painted in the factory, and at least once in the 1980's, and again about 2 years ago. So this notch is covered by at least 3 layers of paint. That might explain why it appears rather shallow.

The fender is believed to be original. It not only has the notch but has a line of perfect spot welds along the inside top of the engine compartment wall.

The notch is not lined up exactly with the Euro headlight chrome...there may have been other chrome surrounds on the car during its life.

Richard M, NYC

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