Author Topic: Price appreciation? (Read 14536 times)

69280sl · « **on:** April 17, 2006, 15:14:46 »

While I waited to see the master mechanic at the shop that is rebuilding my auto trans, I thumbed thru a few of the older magazines, including a 1992 STAR. There were lots of for sale ads for pagodas, not surprising. What was surprising is that the range of prices, from project cars to excellant (as described) cars is about the same as today.

Hope the next 14 years are more gratifying than the last 14.

Gus
68 280sl, signal red

Raymond · « **Reply #1 on:** April 17, 2006, 20:50:49 »

Prices are what buyers are willing to pay. Some of us hate to part with a coin and keep looking for those desperate or ignorant enough to sell low. Others go to auctions and spend indecent amounts of money for cars that are only worth the excitment of bidding.

The prices of all collectible cars have risen substantially in the last couple of years along with house prices. We are starting to see a plateau in housing, I wonder when we'll start to see sellers at Barret-Jackson losing money on their purcahses of the last two years.

Meanwhile, the Robb Report said in 2005 that the Pagoda would double in value in ten years.

Still, I can't put a value on the grin on my face when I drive it.

Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe

TR · « **Reply #2 on:** April 17, 2006, 22:06:34 »

Gus -- I guess we all understand the law of supply & demand. But I agree with you. I clearly recall years ago seeing prices that might not be terribly dissimilar from what we can see today.

Now this is going a long way back, but I bought my 280SL 20 years ago...Yet I can look in a current issue of the SL Market Letter and see plenty of cars for about what I paid back then. And I'm comfortable that I wasn't ripped off because I shopped around for a couple of years before buying.

If our home or getaway place, or even a pitiful old US savings bond hadn't clearly increased in value over a 20 year period I wouldn't feel great about it. I did read a recent SL Market Letter recently, though, where John Olson projected the W113 will be the best appreciating Mercedes through 2010 (100%). I for one sure hope he's right.

Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #3 on:** April 17, 2006, 22:39:11 »

At the Techno Classica event last week in Essen, Pagodas were priced at about 25-30% above the year before. The two Classic-center restored cars for sale at the Daimler-Chrysler stand, at EUR 130K and EUR 150K, obviously being at the top of the range. I believe they both sold ...

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

Douglas · « **Reply #4 on:** April 18, 2006, 04:55:04 »

I would also submit that the condition of the "average" SL has increasingly slid downward over the years. I'm guessing the "garden variety" $15K 280 SL is uniformly weak these days, whereas there was a good chance that a $15K car back in the early 90s was actually a nice SL.

The bottom line is that good cars command more money than ever these days. And as I am currently Pagoda-less, I'm not sure whether this fact makes me happy or sad....

Douglas Kim
New York
USA

mulrik · « **Reply #5 on:** April 18, 2006, 07:51:14 »

Aha. One of my favourite topics. In my view the pagodas are seriously undervalued. I have said this before and I'm repeating myself here: Look at the E-type series I; half the price in the 60'ies, almost double the price today. They are fast flat out, but the quality can't be compared with the pagodas. Approximately the same number of them were made so it can't be for rarity.
I agree with priceless-grin-on-your-face thing when you drive them and most of the time also when you repair them. No doubt they are a joy!!!
However, (and here I repeat myself again) I think we as a group should be able to influence things to make prices go up. That's by writing about them, talking about them and best of all driving our cars. However, I also think that if we posted a price guide on this page one could refer to it and say "look this is what the expert says" There could be definitions of "average" or "concourse", even pictures, and a price guide for each class. This could be made continent dependent.
Let's keep the debate going.
"Summer's here and the time is right for Racing in the Streets" Springsteen.

'67 250 SL Papyrus White 113043-10-000023

Rhodrich · « **Reply #6 on:** April 18, 2006, 08:21:55 »

quote:
Originally posted by mulrik

Aha. One of my favourite topics. In my view the pagodas are seriously undervalued. I have said this before and I'm repeating myself here: Look at the E-type series I; half the price in the 60'ies, almost double the price today. They are fast flat out, but the quality can't be compared with the pagodas. Approximately the same number of them were made so it can't be for rarity.
I agree with priceless-grin-on-your-face thing when you drive them and most of the time also when you repair them. No doubt they are a joy!!!
However, (and here I repeat myself again) I think we as a group should be able to influence things to make prices go up. That's by writing about them, talking about them and best of all driving our cars. However, I also think that if we posted a price guide on this page one could refer to it and say "look this is what the expert says" There could be definitions of "average" or "concourse", even pictures, and a price guide for each class. This could be made continent dependent.
Let's keep the debate going.
"Summer's here and the time is right for Racing in the Streets" Springsteen.

'67 250 SL Papyrus White 113043-10-000023

Before you start doing that, please could you wait until I've purchased mine?

joelj · « **Reply #7 on:** April 18, 2006, 09:15:02 »

Whateve they are worth, I feel that mine is priceless

especially when someone comes up to me and admires my pagoda. Just like Ray, the feeling is priceless.

Cheers,

joel

TR · « **Reply #8 on:** April 18, 2006, 09:16:51 »

I have a recent copy of the SL Market Letter, dated Nov. 21, 2005, laying here.

I did a quick little review of the 280SLs listed for sale in that recent issue. Note that all of these 280SL were located in the U.S:

A) Total number of 280SLs listed: 31 cars
B) Total of combined list prices: $758,800
C) Average list price: $24,468
D) Number of 280SLs at or below $15K: 5 cars
E) Number of 280SLs at or above $30K: 5 cars
F) Lowest priced 280SL: $11,500
G) Highest priced 280SL: $38,000

I think there is a newer copy of the SL Market Letter out, but I seem to misplaced mine. I’d be surprised (pleasantly!) though if there is a substantial increase from 5 months ago.

BTW, when I purchased my 280SL (April 1985) it carried a list price of $20.5K. I negotiated it down by a whopping $1K, but was then almost immediately offered $22K by someone else who had also been looking at it.

Hmmm… My car sold new in late 1970 for less than $10K. In 1985 I was offered $22K for it, and without having put in a singe penny for improvements. More than double in value during it’s first 15 years of life. And now in Nov. 2005, another 21 years later, the average price in the SL Market Letter for a 280SL is $24K.

Yes, I’d say we might want to consider doing something to influence the perceived values of the W113. If John Olson still believes the cars will be up 100% by 2010 (not sure what his base year was in that forecast), which is just 4 years hence, and The Robb Report says 100% in 10 years, then this owner finds Olson’s projection more pleasing…even though I’ll never sell the car.

Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced

Mike Webster · « **Reply #9 on:** April 18, 2006, 09:23:25 »

Why are we complaining? Everyone should be so luckey as us. Here's why:
•Parts are easy to find, we don't get the hording,
•People who own these cars love them, not ones interested in the investment potential which inflates prices beyond reason and invites unscrupulous people.
•We get the uniqueness of product without the heavy price.
•We get a better owner community. We don't have the shysters and frauds who are here for the sole purpose of turning a dollar.

Mike in Detroit
230sl silver/red

n/a · « **Reply #10 on:** April 18, 2006, 13:11:58 »

I’ve been reading messages for past year. This my first post.

I like the W113 very much to. I also hope prices go down because it is a luxury car I might can afford soon. A rich mans car, even though I am not rich. Noboy here could ever buy a new SL. If Pagoda price stays down and parts don’t cost much then soon I hope to buy a good one. I will fix it up myself then drive it then sell it and make money. Then if price stays down maybe do again.

I agree with your message.

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Webster

Why are we complaining? Everyone should be so luckey as us. Here's why:
•Parts are easy to find, we don't get the hording,
•People who own these cars love them, not ones interested in the investment potential which inflates prices beyond reason and invites unscrupulous people.
•We get the uniqueness of product without the heavy price.
•We get a better owner community. We don't have the shysters and frauds who are here for the sole purpose of turning a dollar.

Mike in Detroit
230sl silver/red

zanone · « **Reply #11 on:** April 18, 2006, 17:15:26 »

Anyone have an opinion on the impact of higher fuel prices and how it affects (Pagoda) prices? Most people with the disposable income or who already own collectable cars don't worry about the price of fuel since it's off set by the enjoyment of ownership but my concern is that new buyers may be putting off a purchase to use the money elsewhere. Would this bring down values?

keesing · « **Reply #12 on:** April 18, 2006, 17:30:21 »

I, probably like most here, only use the "Market Value" to justify, in my mind and my wife's, that my "NEW" hobby makes economic sense too! If the truth-be-told... I'd own my two babies even if they were depreciating in value - I just wouldn't (couldn't) brag about what an intelegent investor I am! :mrgreen:

1967 250SL Signal Red
1969 280SL "Tweety Bird Yellow"
1987 260E Charcoal

bjudd · « **Reply #13 on:** April 19, 2006, 10:24:54 »

I hope we do not do anything to "influence the perceived value" of our cars. Just yesterday I had my first close look at a restored 300 SL gathering dust with it's incredible $ "value". Meanwhile I was driving my 280 soaking up the sun with the top down. The value of the 300 keeps its owner from driving, parking, "risking" damage or theft. No doubt we all think about these, but for the majority of us they don't keep us from having a lot of driving time and enjoyment from our pagodas.

Mike expressed well why we don't want investors buying these cars. Like the best musical instruments, they'll end up in someone's collection rather than on the road with someone that drempt of driving this car for thirty years like me or Pujyade (someday soon!).

bjudd
1969 280 SL 5 sp

Chad · « **Reply #14 on:** April 19, 2006, 20:28:47 »

I hope these cars don't go the way of rising prices, and they are so fairly common (relative to rare cars) that I don't think they will very much. We take care of them and keep them around, too. This is not a way to invest money for the future, quite the contrary, in my opinion. It's a car to enjoy and drive around.

1967 230SL (Manual)
2006 Prius (Mostly Electrical)

n/a · « **Reply #15 on:** April 20, 2006, 17:09:41 »

I feel good that no one here wants to see prices go up. good for a poor cabby like me. I didn't know these cars were common.

quote:
Originally posted by Chad

I hope these cars don't go the way of rising prices, and they are so fairly common (relative to rare cars) that I don't think they will very much. We take care of them and keep them around, too. This is not a way to invest money for the future, quite the contrary, in my opinion. It's a car to enjoy and drive around.

1967 230SL (Manual)
2006 Prius (Mostly Electrical)

Abbas · « **Reply #16 on:** April 22, 2006, 04:24:48 »

We are blessed to be driving affordable and unique cars and having fun maintaining them and talking to other friends about them. I personally feel happy about that and hope it stays for a longer period and hope others also benefit. When I pass by a MB dealership and see the price tag for new convertible MB cars and compare them to my Pagoda it make me smile - my car is more prety and costed me much less to buy and to maintain - do you know how much a set of engine mountings for a new MB cost compared to a $70 for a Pagoda ...

280SL W113 1969 Ivory
E280 W124 1995 Silver

n/a · « **Reply #17 on:** April 23, 2006, 09:54:08 »

Tjhis message list is great insperation for me and my kids. Because everyone here like Pagodas be very cheap and common I decide to buy. I buy first Pagoda! Sold 1983 Chevy and 76 Toyota truck and 85 minivan and money I save from cabby job. Now have a 230SL outside! It does not work yet. But like we all want car and parts are cheap. Next I buy another one for my 15 years daughter who can soon use it for school. Driving Mercedes she will be envy. America is great!

drewsalisbury · « **Reply #18 on:** April 26, 2006, 19:27:24 »

DaveB - that crap does not belong on this site. And pujyade is correct. He is here, you are not.
Drew Salisbury

Drew Salisbury
1971 280sl auto

n/a · « **Reply #19 on:** April 27, 2006, 07:37:32 »

Dear DaveB,

I and my family read and listen to article and it made us sad. If you live in other contry where very very bad things always happen you maybe not believe the wrighter. We are happy to be in America and all become citizens. In China anyone who wright article or book like this would be kill. In America everyone has right under US constitution to say and wright anything. Even if it not true and stupid.

I'm very glad to be American and to have very cheap Pagoda car!

Jazn · « **Reply #20 on:** May 30, 2006, 19:26:03 »

Get them out on the road, the more people see them, the more the price will go up because they will "want one". One nice thing about Americans, they WANT it NOW!

TR · « **Reply #21 on:** July 14, 2006, 12:25:28 »

Just saw a current listing of 36 280SLs. Avg. was $32,100. Low was $5.5K, Hi was $105K. $25K or less, 6 cars. $35K or more, 10 cars. $50K or more, 3 cars.

Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced

rwmastel · « **Reply #22 on:** July 14, 2006, 13:24:50 »

quote:
Originally posted by TR

Just saw a current listing of 36 280SLs.

Where?

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420

Cees Klumper · « **Reply #23 on:** July 14, 2006, 14:37:09 »

Interestingly, on the German Pagoda site, there is a current topic where members lament about the recent decline in W 113 prices in Germany.

Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic

TR · « **Reply #24 on:** July 14, 2006, 14:54:30 »

quote:
Originally posted by rwmastel

quote:
Originally posted by TR

Just saw a current listing of 36 280SLs.
Where?

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420

I began subscribing to the SL Market Letter 20 years ago. Let it lapse, but signed up again recently. Glad I did.

Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced

News:

Author Topic: Price appreciation? (Read 14536 times)

TR

Douglas

mulrik

Rhodrich

joelj

TR

Mike Webster

n/a

zanone

keesing

bjudd

Chad

n/a

Abbas

n/a

drewsalisbury

n/a

Jazn

TR

TR