Newbie needs your help

[bcotharn]

I am looking at buying a 1971 280SL Pagoda in N. Texas.  It has 119K miles on it but NO rust.  The engine has been replaced with a new Factory engine along with the transmission (not sure when).

Other than that, it's in really good shape I'm told and from the pictures it looks clean.

Does a new Factory engine and transmission diminish the value of the car?  (trying to get a deal on it)

I need some guidance here please.
Thank You
Brady

[clunker]

Hi Brady  - I think it will might helpful to post the vin or serial # of the car, what its full specs are (eg color int/ext/top, auto/manual etc), any pics, and if there any evidence of rust or damage or rust repairs (cf the trunk floor, and footwell) even if they are all now resolved. At some price it is a going to be fair deal, but some some guidance on what the price being asked would help frame feedback from the forum on value.

That said, I know your specific question was "Does a new Factory engine and transmission diminish the value of the car?", and I think it certainly depends on whether is was part of a full on restore (less so), a daily driver (less so), or a well preserved original or restore with a later drivetrain swap (potentially). The nature of the replacement will also matter: a replacement rebuilt Metric engine for example could be seen as a plus by many.

[bcotharn]

Hi clunker
I don't have the serial # (yet).  I'm getting all of the information.  I will certainly put up things as I get them, but my main question is still about the engine and transmission.

From what I am told, it was a 'driver' (not sure if it was daily but it was driven).  Everything else (except the radio/antenna) is an original.  I am also told it is a factory engine.  Not a "go down the road and find one at the junkyard" one.  Thanks

[Vander]

You can verify if it is indeed a factory engine by a metal tag that says "Tauscgaggregat". It will be where the engine number stamping is located.

[mdsalemi]

If you are new to the world of Pagodas, you would be wise to invest in a pre-purchase inspection. There are a few of our members and others in TX that could probably help you out.

[bcotharn]

Great!  I will have him send me a photo of that IF it has "Tauscgaggregat" on it .

If it does have it, does that help in the value or at least not hurt it?
Modify message

[bcotharn]

I plan on doing that once I decide (after hearing more comments about the engine/transmission) if I want to purchase it (or prior to purchasing it).  Thanks

[rwmastel]

Values can vary widely based on many, many things.  It's very difficult, even for the most experienced, to state a value from pics and the descriptions from someone who's never restored or even owned a Pagoda.  "It’s worth what someone is willing to pay" is a very common saying for a reason.  Also, "buy the best condition Mercedes you can afford" is also great advice.

What's your goal?  Avoid getting taken advantage of?  Buy a pristine show car?  Buy a car to drive 3,000+ miles per year?  Flip it for a profit?  Restore it and keep it?

Do you know how all the body panels were welded at the factory?  Can you tell if those factory welds are still in place, or if repairs were done?  Accident repairs or rust repairs?  Can you identify repainted panels?  Do you know the original under coating and where paint was applied underneath?  I hope you now see that the questions about the car's condition can be endless, and they differ based on your goals and expectations for the car.

Find someone with experience willing to do a pre-purchase inspection (don't expect them to put a value on the car) and use the discovered flaws in your negotiation.

I had someone look over my car before purchasing, and I really just wanted to know if there were hidden problems that would make it a money pit to own.  Well, more so than any other old (classic) luxury brand car.

[Cees Klumper]

To answer very specifically your question: yes, not having the original engine detracts from the value, all other things being equal.

What I mean by that is that the condition of the engine, original or not, is similar. So not "original engine completely worn out with barely any compression needing rebuild" vs "replacement engine, recently completely rebuilt by Metric Motors and in new condition mechanically and cosmetically".

Btw all these engines are factory original.

My personal opinion is that it's the condition of the engine that is important, not the serial number that it has. It's also very easy to fake an original engine number. And, many engines lost their little aluminum plates along the way as they were not riveted onto the block very solidly. So, the one you are looking at may still, or may no longer, have the 'tauschaggregat' plate. If that is important to you, you can just get a new one and affix it to the block.

[EeVeeWee]

You can verify if it is indeed a factory engine by a metal tag that says "Tauscgaggregat". It will be where the engine number stamping is located.

The right German spelling is "Tauschaggregat".

[bcotharn]

Appreciate this.

[bcotharn]

Thanks for this.

[BobH]

Have a look on here for originality pointers, and also worth looking at some of their other restorations

https://motoringinvestments.com/mercedes-280sl-w113-buyers-guide/

[Pawel66]

To be honest, I would verify NO rust with an expert, check if engine is ok and that there are no major parts missing and if the overall condition is clean, I would not care too much about the rest. I would definitely not care about Tauschaggregat engine.

It may be 119k miles or 219k miles, if the above would check out, the car is worth attention.

That is just me, certainly.

[bcotharn]

Wow!  Thanks for this!

[john.mancini]

I’ve owned many, many W113 Pagodas over the years. I agree with Cees, if all things are equal, a Pagoda with its original engine will be worth a bit more than the same Pagoda with a replacement engine. But, in my opinion, the most important factor is finding a Pagoda that has never had accident or rust damage. It’s very costly to restore these cars. If your car has a solid, unaltered body and a good strong engine, (original or factory replacement), you’ll save tens of thousands in restoration costs in the long run.