Author Topic: "Metal or Plastic "(bakelite)  (Read 676 times)

John Betsch - "SADIE"

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"Metal or Plastic "(bakelite)
« on: April 18, 2024, 20:12:58 »
My Euro 65 230sl ignition wires needed replacement.

The present ones had metal jackets. (whether that was correct or not when done years ago)  To be "more correct" I purchased a set  listed for 230sl with bakelite connectors.  When they were installed, (I didnt do) was told they were "too loose" causing sparking etc. and not proper.

My vin 010662 I have been told is "mid run" neither early nor late if that matters

much confusion here, educated opinions?

jb

JB; 1965 German market SL, Rot Met 571, Summary Code 213 Interior

Jonny B

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Re: "Metal or Plastic "(bakelite)
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2024, 15:32:54 »
The change list for the VIN you have is covered in Pagoda Notes Vol 10 No 2 - available in the technical manual. I scanned through it but did not see anything relating to wiring changes at the switch.

You might want to check the change list on the Pagoda Notes issues on each side of No2
Jonny B
1967 250 SL Auto, DB 568
1970 280 SL Auto, DB 904
1966 Morris Mini Minor

lpeterssen

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Re: "Metal or Plastic "(bakelite)
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2024, 16:17:55 »
Dear JB

A w113-230Sl harness can be converted to use the bakelite plug in connector.

Bakelite plug in connector was used on newer cars like 280SL

The cylindrical pins that go inside a rounded 8 terminals connector can be adjusted by pressing them is they are loose, or the pins itself can be changed for new ones which sell for about 2$ each

Best regards
Lp
Www.wiredoktor.com

Pawel66

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Re: "Metal or Plastic "(bakelite)
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2024, 16:45:42 »
John,

Some hints here perhaps: https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=27585.msg198220#msg198220

I am not sure about the 90 deg connector for the cylinder No. 1 - I am often reading it should be used there.

What you describe as "lose bakelite" connectors might have been that way because they were of the wrong kind, not because they were bakelite.

Check it out also here: https://www.sls-hh-shop.de/main/de/mercedes-230-280sl-w113/15-motorelektrik/15-a-zuendung-traditionell-

I will check later what EPC says about 90 degree connector - it is not working right now.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

John Betsch - "SADIE"

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Re: "Metal or Plastic "(bakelite)
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2024, 17:39:33 »
Could I, if I might, tag on another question. 

Does anyone know or point me to a chart of the lengths of the ignition wires.  The ones that were just put on seem long with lots of extra wire, especially the one to to the coil?  I don't have the old ones to compare.

v/r
JB
JB; 1965 German market SL, Rot Met 571, Summary Code 213 Interior

lpeterssen

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Re: "Metal or Plastic "(bakelite)
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2024, 19:25:32 »
Dear JB

A w113-230Sl harness can be converted to use the bakelite plug in connector.

Bakelite plug in connector was used on newer cars like 280SL

The cylindrical pins that go inside a rounded 8 terminals connector can be adjusted by pressing them is they are loose, or the pins itself can be changed for new ones which sell for about 2$ each

Best regards
Lp
Www.wiredoktor.com

Dear friends

I understood bad Sadies question. I though he was talking about the IGNITION TUMBLER SWITCH, and not as I now realize he was talking about the IGNITION PLUGS wire connectors

Pay no attention to my previous answer

Best regards
Lp

Benz Dr.

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Re: "Metal or Plastic "(bakelite)
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2024, 21:14:35 »
For the most part, the plug wire ends with metal covers are similar to those without shielding.  Same basic equipment only with metal covers. 
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Jonny B

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Re: "Metal or Plastic "(bakelite)
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2024, 15:10:14 »
To answer a question about No 1 cylinder. For the Pagoda the No 1 plug connector is just like all the rest. The angled connector was only used on the carbureted cars.
Jonny B
1967 250 SL Auto, DB 568
1970 280 SL Auto, DB 904
1966 Morris Mini Minor

TJMart

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Re: "Metal or Plastic "(bakelite)
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2024, 19:43:46 »
To answer a question about No 1 cylinder. For the Pagoda the No 1 plug connector is just like all the rest. The angled connector was only used on the carbureted cars.

I can personally confirm what Jon is saying. Mercedes sold me a set of plug wires long ago that I assumed were the correct ones. They had the 90 degree #1 plug connector. I later found out that they were the incorrect wires for my 1970 280SL because the 90 degree connector adds 5k ohms of resistance unlike the rest of the wires that add 1k ohms each. I replaced all of mine with a set from K&K with the copper core wire and it made a significant difference in tuning my car before I addressed my mixture issues.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2024, 22:44:22 by TJMart »
Tony
1970 280SL, 4 Speed

Benz Dr.

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Re: "Metal or Plastic "(bakelite)
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2024, 20:54:41 »
I can personally confirm what Jon is saying. Mercedes sold me a set of plug wires long ago that I assumed were the correct ones. They had the 90 degree #1 plug connector. I later found out that they were the incorrect wires for my 1970 280SL because the 90 degree connector adds 5 ohms of resistance unlike the rest of the wires that add 1 ohm each. I replaced all of mine with a set from K&K with the copper core wire and it made a significant difference in tuning my car before I addressed my mixture issues.

MB sells Bosch wire sets which often contain carbon core coil wires. The difference you saw would most likely be found with that part.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

John Betsch - "SADIE"

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Re: "Metal or Plastic "(bakelite)
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2024, 23:17:52 »
It appears my original post has gotten sidetracked.  Anyway, can someone help with my add-on question regarding the proper length of standard ignition wires noted half-way through the posts

merci

JB
JB; 1965 German market SL, Rot Met 571, Summary Code 213 Interior

ja17

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Re: "Metal or Plastic "(bakelite)
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2024, 05:12:38 »
Improper looking and fitting ignition wires will detract from the good looks of your engine compartment and could even cause running issues down the road. It is very difficult to find a wire set which is built correct and fits correctly. Find a quality set with solid core wire, six straight connectors at the spark plugs and screw off ends. If you know the correct routing for each wire, remove the ends one at a time and trim the wire to length, after routing it correctly. You can screw the end back on the trimmed wire after you make it the perfect length. If you do not know the correct original routing, simply find a good photo of an original engine (plenty on this website). Don't forget the large diameter plastic sleeve, wire collector, where the wires pass over or under the injection lines near the distributor. With later 280SLs, having the plastic distributor cover, the wires pass under the injection lines. All earlier cars the wires pass over the injection lines.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
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1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

BobH

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Re: "Metal or Plastic "(bakelite)
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2024, 08:18:48 »
Have a look on here for the different routing changes, whether you have the metal tube, or the leads are loose and clipped

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=12919.0
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