Author Topic: What paint color?  (Read 2195 times)

MikeSimon

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, North Royalton
  • Posts: 2426
What paint color?
« on: November 21, 2023, 00:33:19 »
The auction below is on BaT for a 1965 230SL. The car has been repainted and there is a discussion about the original color. The body plate says 412, but that does not show as a good color in our TechMan. What's going on?

 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-mercedes-benz-230sl-54/
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

Vander

  • Full Member
  • Silver
  • ****
  • USA, OH, Columbus
  • Posts: 360
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2023, 00:51:05 »
The auction below is on BaT for a 1965 230SL. The car has been repainted and there is a discussion about the original color. The body plate says 412, but that does not show as a good color in our TechMan. What's going on?

 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-mercedes-benz-230sl-54/

This is DB412 Beige on a 61 Adenauer I sold several years ago. I have not seen it on a Pagoda before.
1969 280SL

john.mancini

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA: Nokomis, FL and Chatham, MA
  • Posts: 635
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2023, 02:22:25 »
I just read the info on that car on BaT.  Looks like the car may have left the factory in 412 Beige, was subsequently painted black, (thus the dash color), and then painted the red we now see. It's anyone's guess. The car needs a TON of work. It will be a very expensive fix. I would avoid that car.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2023, 12:01:57 by john.mancini »
John
68 280SL 906 Blue 4-sp
69 280SL 906 Blue
70 280SL 904 Blue
70 280SL 571 Red
70 280SL 040 Black 4-sp
66 230SL 162 Blue/Grey 
68 280SL 568 Red 4-sp
69 280SL 304 Horizon Blue
65 230SL 519 Red 4-sp
83 911SC
98 911 cab
56 Ford F100
08 RS60
62 Corvette Fuelie
66 GT350H
67 GT350
70 LT1 conv

Jonny B

  • Pagoda SL Board
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, CA, San Marcos
  • Posts: 4150
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2023, 03:34:53 »
I looked in my Glasurit color book, and it lists 412 as "gazellbraun" from 1952. 408 is listed as"havannabraun" from 1952. It does not make any distinction about what cars it would have been used on.
Jonny B
1967 250 SL Auto, DB 568
1970 280 SL Auto, DB 904
1966 Morris Mini Minor

MikeSimon

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, North Royalton
  • Posts: 2426
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2023, 17:26:44 »
We have a nice color chart in our Tech Manual and 412 is not listed as a Pagoda color.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

JamesL

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • United Kingdom, London, London
  • Posts: 3535
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2023, 18:18:11 »
412 Havana brown as the contrast colour. I bet that was originally a stunning combination, but dated “badly”, thus the change(s)
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather

MikeSimon

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, North Royalton
  • Posts: 2426
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2023, 18:23:13 »
Havana Brown is 408. I can't seem to get an answer to my question. 412 IS NOT a Pagoda color, according to our Tech Manual. What was it?
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

Pawel66

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Poland, Mazowieckie, Konstancin-Jeziorna
  • Posts: 5286
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2023, 19:52:57 »
Mike, is it possible that someone just ordered a car in color that was a Daimler color, but not included in a Pagoda scheme?

I have a 190SL with 300SL upholstery color. I also have a Ponton coupe with MBtex upholstery on special request.

This is possible also today. Costs arms and legs but you can do it.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

MikeSimon

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, North Royalton
  • Posts: 2426
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2023, 20:37:27 »
Maybe, Pawel. Seems to be the only explanation, other than our color list is incomplete. Our cylinder head list is, so it wouldn't surprise me.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

rwmastel

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, OH, Canal Winchester
  • Posts: 4433
  • Pagoda SL Group: 20+ years and going strong!
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2023, 20:57:18 »
The body plate says 412, but that does not show as a good color in our TechMan. What's going on?
I guess the data card would be the ultimate decider on what was original?  If that shows 412, then the customer custom ordered a color that was available in the past (maybe on a car he/she previously owned?).
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL

BobH

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • United Kingdom, England, MALDON
  • Posts: 850
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2023, 21:15:11 »
It looks like this colour was only offered by MB as standard in 1961, so as others have said, someone took a liking to it and special ordered the Pagoda in that colour

http://oudemercedesbrochures.nl/Lacken_0961.html

« Last Edit: November 26, 2023, 18:49:23 by BobH »
February 1965 230SL Automatic
UK delivered RHD
Papyrus white, blue hard top & hub caps
Blue soft top
Blue leather

lreppond

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, CA, San Leandro
  • Posts: 629
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2023, 16:43:53 »
412 Havana brown as the contrast colour. I bet that was originally a stunning combination, but dated “badly”, thus the change(s)

Totally agree!  Sometimes these “dated” combos yield an interesting, period look. Must have looked stunning with that interior.   Pity it’s been repainted. 
~Len

1971 280 SL
576G red/251 Beige
4 speed manual
Family owned since new (father —> son)

john.mancini

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA: Nokomis, FL and Chatham, MA
  • Posts: 635
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2023, 19:31:18 »
Just looked at the photos again. I believe that you can see the original 412G beige color on and around the data plate that is attached to the relay bracket.
John
68 280SL 906 Blue 4-sp
69 280SL 906 Blue
70 280SL 904 Blue
70 280SL 571 Red
70 280SL 040 Black 4-sp
66 230SL 162 Blue/Grey 
68 280SL 568 Red 4-sp
69 280SL 304 Horizon Blue
65 230SL 519 Red 4-sp
83 911SC
98 911 cab
56 Ford F100
08 RS60
62 Corvette Fuelie
66 GT350H
67 GT350
70 LT1 conv

MOliverMc

  • Full Member
  • Junior Level
  • *
  • USA, CT, Norwalk
  • Posts: 34
  • SHADY
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2023, 01:09:58 »
@john.mancini

What work do you immediately see that it needs?  I’m a recent owner and just trying to learn about these cars.  I see cosmetic issues that seem approachable to my naive mind.  I see no evidence that it runs well or badly or at all!  (Aside from one poor quality video).  I think that is a big problem for the seller, as uncertainty is not helpful in the auction of anything of real value.  I am curious if you see more than I do (very likely!)

Respectfully,

Oliver
1964 230SL 4-spd “SHADY”

john.mancini

  • Full Member
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA: Nokomis, FL and Chatham, MA
  • Posts: 635
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2023, 13:45:17 »
Hi Oliver. I would avoid this car at all costs. It's a rust bucket that will take well over $120K to just get the body back to a rust free state. Then mechanically, who knows what else it will take. In my opinion, the most important thing to look for in these Pagodas is the integrity of the body. If you can find one that has not been rusted and has not been in an accident, you will save yourself tens of thousands of dollars and years of restoration down time.

On BaT and other auction sites, a lot of bidders want "matching numbers". They want the original engine. While that may be important with early Corvettes, it's not as important with Pagodas. Because 230-250-280 SL's only offered one engine choice each year, "fake SL's", with optional engines, never really existed. Changing the engine block, usually under warranty, was not that uncommon back then. Take a look at what re-manufactured Pagodas are bringing these days. Most of those have newer engines. So, in my opinion, finding a Pagoda with a great body is a priority. Everything else comes second.
John
68 280SL 906 Blue 4-sp
69 280SL 906 Blue
70 280SL 904 Blue
70 280SL 571 Red
70 280SL 040 Black 4-sp
66 230SL 162 Blue/Grey 
68 280SL 568 Red 4-sp
69 280SL 304 Horizon Blue
65 230SL 519 Red 4-sp
83 911SC
98 911 cab
56 Ford F100
08 RS60
62 Corvette Fuelie
66 GT350H
67 GT350
70 LT1 conv

114015

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • Germany, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Tecklenburg
  • Posts: 2077
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2023, 13:06:59 »
Quote
Mike, is it possible that someone just ordered a car in color that was a Daimler color, but not included in a Pagoda scheme
I have a 190SL with 300SL upholstery color. I also have a Ponton coupe with MBtex upholstery on special request.
This is possible also today. Costs arms and legs but you can do it.

Yes,
this was possible. There were a couple of our W113 SLs around with factory-painted color codes which are/were not on the regular list: 412 (beige), 270 (bluegreen), 574 (orange)  658 (ivory), etc.
More common the earlier those cars were but of course still rare.
Was a special (highly demanded) option those days - at extra costs...
Achim
(Germany)

JamesL

  • Full Member
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • United Kingdom, London, London
  • Posts: 3535
Re: What paint color?
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2023, 14:29:42 »
Wasn't the bright yellow car that was in Nürnberg (and Willingen and elsewhere) orginal?

(May be the one discussed here... > https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=12546.0 )
James L
Oct69 RHD 280 in DB906 with cognac leather