Author Topic: W111 electric window motor  (Read 1671 times)

LDB

  • Junior Level
  • Belgium, Flanders, Bruges
  • Posts: 2
W111 electric window motor
« on: March 07, 2023, 08:37:45 »
Hello

I am trying to convert the mechanical windows to electric of my W111 280SE 3.5 (and 250SE as well).
I know that there are original parts out there but these are expensive and not always in the best condition.

I've read the post about the difference in electric window motor+gear+wires.

My question is:
Does anyone know about another Mercedes model that shares the gearing and motor or at least a gearing that has the same amount of teeth and motor with the same force?
Or if you have experience with replacing them with entirely diffrent motors?
I have heard about the W115 sharing the rear ones and W126 for the fronts but these are again expensive..?

This would be a tremendous help for me!

Kind regards
Louis D.B.

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2858
Re: W111 electric window motor
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2023, 17:18:38 »
To start, you will want to use the later 2 wire motor with the gear head that is cast with the motor housing. Parts for these are easier to come by. This would be appropriate for your 3.5 model and what it would have come with. The 3 wire set up is harder to find parts and for cars with the switches on the door cards. Your switches would be on the console.
The regulators for the rear qtr could be the challenging. Only on two door cars. Anyway I think getting in touch with L Peterson who is on this forum would be good. He is an electrical genius. He has also studied the electric window system.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2023, 23:06:09 by wwheeler »
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

LDB

  • Junior Level
  • Belgium, Flanders, Bruges
  • Posts: 2
Re: W111 electric window motor
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2023, 09:29:42 »
First of all, thanks for your reply!

I'v come across allot of 2 wires motor with gear attached to it in the same housing.
The hard part is knowing if these will fit. I don't mind modifying the door to make it fit but this should not be to extreme.

I would love to know if I could just use a window motor that is suiteble for lets say the W201 e.g.
I can still buy new replacement parts for the W201 so that way I ensure that I can use them for a long time to come.
Hopefully L Peterson finds this post so he can explain this a little bit.


Lorsar

  • Membership Administrator
  • Senior
  • ***
  • USA, NC, Charlotte
  • Posts: 207
  • 1968 280SL (US)
Re: W111 electric window motor
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2023, 14:03:57 »
Leo tends to monitor just the electrical forum so you may want to message him directly
Lori
1968 280SL (US)

lpeterssen

  • Vendor
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, FL, Miami
  • Posts: 582
Re: W111 electric window motor
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2023, 15:22:59 »
Dear Louis

Thanks for sending the direct message to call for my attention on this particular job/project.

Thanks for comments posted by you all regarding my projects.

I agree with Wallace that the best way to go here on this w111 280SE-3.5 and the other 250Se where you plan to install power windows is to use the system that came on w108 which uses power window motors with only two contact leads, because these motors use more modern power window switches which can be sourced new everywhere.  Older three lead motors, even when are more robust, have the problem that they relay on early power window switches which are terrible expensive, and most of the times as used parts tend to fail. Early power window switches have three leads. The central cable is ground, which is switched either to the upper output cable or the lower output cable.  Early switches to do not reverse polarity to change power window motor movement clockwise/counterclockwise., they only send a negative signal through one output cable or the other.  The power window motors have a separated winding for the movement UP and another for the movement down.  The early motors have constant 12V on the central black cable  and receive the ground for each of the separated winding’s on the green leads.

Two lead motors have attached a gearbox which is much better that the approach used on early w111 which used a motor coupled to a conversion box via a plastic/rubber sleeve link.  That part can be sourced with Wallace new in case you have the three lead early power windows motors.

On the modern two lead motors the polarity inversion, to make your power windows roll up and down, is made by the power windows switch itself.

I think that you can source a w108 power windows harness and install it directly with minimum modifications on your w111.  Also the power windows motors could be sourced from a later w108, years 1970 onwards.  They fit on your w111 with minor modifications to none.  Just be aware that these motor are sold as a set since for each door they have differences. So you should buy one FRONT LEFT, one FRONT RIGHT, one REAR LEFT, and finally one REAR RIGHT motors.

If you need one power windows harness already refurbished, I have some here at home.

Best regards
L.Peterssen
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 16:25:38 by lpeterssen »

wwheeler

  • Vendor
  • Platinum
  • ******
  • USA, TX, Dallas
  • Posts: 2858
Re: W111 electric window motor
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2023, 23:03:18 »
You are in good hands Louis. I can't comment on mounting the newer 2 wire motors and only are familiar with the older three wire as my '68 280SE has. The electrical part makes my head spin and Leo can guide you through that.

My W111 rear qtr window has an odd glass guiding system and that will give you problems if it is not sorted out. It looks like the attached. I also sell the roller set for that if your model has the same set up. I would think the manual windows use this same plate but not positive.     
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

lpeterssen

  • Vendor
  • Gold
  • *****
  • USA, FL, Miami
  • Posts: 582
Re: W111 electric window motor
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2023, 11:30:48 »
You are in good hands Louis. I can't comment on mounting the newer 2 wire motors and only are familiar with the older three wire as my '68 280SE has. The electrical part makes my head spin and Leo can guide you through that.

My W111 rear qtr window has an odd glass guiding system and that will give you problems if it is not sorted out. It looks like the attached. I also sell the roller set for that if your model has the same set up. I would think the manual windows use this same plate but not positive.   

Dear Wallace / Louis

Yes the manual cranking windows car use exactly the same metal plate,  I have w112 coupe with power windows as well as w111 coupe with manual mechanisms, both look the same at first sight to me.

Regarding the wiring, the best option is the harness from a late w108 or w109 better because is 10 cm longer in the back end.  Years 1969 onwards.  The power window switches will be located on a central console around the shifter, and those switches are the same used on w116, R107, and w123 early. Even can be sourced on Amazon from a generic not so good brand MTC which I guess is Chinese.  Of course the better as this is a crucial component in the correct working of the system will be to buy original Mercedes’ at a dealer.

The main power feed for the auxiliary fuse box located on the front right fender should come from battery directly to that 4 gang fuse box.   Another minor gauge power lead should come from the T15 not fused side of the main fuse box to let that system know if ignition switch is on the run position or not.  A signal power derivation should be taken from right side door light switch to let the system work if the ignition is off when any door is open.  In that way if car has the ignition already off, if you open driver or front passenger  door, you will be able to roll up your windows.  The derivation goes on the switched side of that door light switch.  That connection is done on that door just because it’s proximity to main power windows control relay.

Change old fashion rectangular relays for newer cubed style OEM Mercedes. Of course change the 4 prong Bakelite connector for 6 pin connector and relocate pins in the proper way to fit cubed relays pin arrangements ( I mean T87, T30, T85 and T86 are not in the same layout as on a older rectangular relay ).

Best regards
Leonardo Peterssen