Author Topic: 30mm Sway Bars  (Read 6512 times)

Jack the Knife

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30mm Sway Bars
« on: January 12, 2023, 16:25:05 »
****IF WE GET TEN BARS, IT IS $275. Comment below if you want to be on the order! I will place it on January 27.****

After hearing that Addco, a company here in Florida, made sway bars for the R107 as well as the W121, I contacted them this morning and spoke with the owner about doing a run of larger sway bars for our Pagodas. Andrew Cox unfortunately no longer makes the 30mm bars you read about if you look up sway bar options on this forum. But this could be a very good option for those wanting a cheap way to improve handling. Just as well, if you check prices on eBay for the 230SL (thicker) sway bar, you'd be better off just getting a new one in the way you want it.

To those who have the 30mm bar on their cars, how do you like it? Would you prefer some other dimension? Addco mentioned it would be easier/cheaper to produce them either slightly larger or slightly smaller than 30mm owing to the availability of materials.

And to those without such bars, how many of you are interested in doing a group buy? Ball park cost is if this is a one-off for me, it will cost around $300 for a bar. If I can get more than ten people interested, the price drops by half.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2023, 15:31:13 by Jack the Knife »
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Benz Dr.

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2023, 16:41:44 »
I have a larger sway bar on my car and I like it well enough. I used one from a 111 coupe.  300 bucks sounds like an OK price. 150 sounds like a great price!
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
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1967 250SL
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Jack the Knife

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2023, 18:31:30 »
I have a larger sway bar on my car and I like it well enough. I used one from a 111 coupe.  300 bucks sounds like an OK price. 150 sounds like a great price!

I just spoke with Andrew Cox and he said the 109 bars will fit all the cars of our vintage, and that today one would use 1 and 1/8" steel to make the bars and it is close enough at 28.5mm. He said it should take the standard bushings that Addco should have laying around their shop. I have relayed this information to Addco and will update when I have more. If we do this, it's likely we'll just make 109 bars to broaden the market a little bit.
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wwheeler

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2023, 19:09:09 »
I have the 28.5mm frame sway bar bushings in urethane that will fit the 113 exactly. Not just “close fit”. This is a tool from Cox racing. I also have the end link bushings that again fit as factory.
Wallace
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MikeSimon

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2023, 19:35:29 »
I find this thread hilarious. Especially in light of this remark, made by the OP in another thread here...

Quote
You can't improve on a German design, especially a Mercedes design. They simply are the best, objectively, and anything you do otherwise is debasing -- no, bastardizing(!!) -- the car,
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rwmastel

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2023, 21:18:08 »
I know JTK can defend himself, but I'd say that maybe you didn't understand him.  Let's give it another try, including the lead-in question.

"What are you saying? You can't improve on a German design, especially a Mercedes design. They simply are the best, objectively, and anything you do otherwise is debasing -- no, bastardizing(!!) -- the car, and you might as well have just bought something else. /s"

I think that last sentence deserved a question mark.  I don't know what "/s" means.  I think JTK was asking "What are you saying?  You can't improve on ...?"  That implies he thinks you can improve on German design.

JTK, jump in here so we all understand your feelings/opinions and then we can all get along again.
Rodd

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MikeSimon

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2023, 21:25:04 »
I don't want to turn this into a big debate, but my post to which JTK posted this response was very clear and did not leave an open question about what I said. I was talking about "styling" as this was the subject of the discussion there. And my point was that we Germans are not known for having great automotive styling. Technical-engineering-design, yes. But styling? No! the Italians on the other hand....
If you repeat JTK's post as a response to mine, you should post my post also.
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Jack the Knife

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2023, 21:47:45 »
I don't want to turn this into a big debate, but my post to which JTK posted this response was very clear and did not leave an open question about what I said. I was talking about "styling" as this was the subject of the discussion there. And my point was that we Germans are not known for having great automotive styling. Technical-engineering-design, yes. But styling? No! the Italians on the other hand....
If you repeat JTK's post as a response to mine, you should post my post also.

My post was meant to lampoon the mentality of those who feel the as-delivered design of certain cars can’t be improved upon. My belief is that there is a breakdown between what designers want and what often can practically be delivered to the market. The first part of that post was not to be taken literally and was certainly in agreement with you. I don’t expect anyone here to have a PhD in my most recent post history but I’d hope that my posts and efforts here in R&D can show that I do believe aspects of our cars can be improved.
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MikeSimon

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2023, 22:01:24 »
JTK: I could not agree with you more!
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Benz Dr.

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2023, 22:36:28 »
Not that it matters at all, but way back when we started this club I felt that we should be about original cars. As a compromise, I suggested that we start a separate forum that I called R&D. I still believe that we should be primarily about original cars first and small improvements should be second.

And not that it should matter to many here, but I've been watching a different club than ours slowly devolve over the past few years. China starters, alternators instead of generators, electronic distributors, and now a different brake booster. Now that there's little left of the original car what should we call it now?

The reason people street rod cars is because they were mostly cheap junk to begin with and you could only improve said junk by doing the street rod thing. Our cars were never cheap junk so improvements need to be done selectively if at all. I've modified my car but I used vintage parts from the same time period as the rest of the car and it took a fair amount of figuring things out to make them all work.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

Jack the Knife

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2023, 00:03:21 »
Some machines, like land speed record cars, modern airplanes, high speed trains, F1 cars, and so on are optimized to their purpose -- form follows function. In some extremely tightly engineered machines, there really is little room for further optimization or change. One might literally call such things "appliances," in that these machines are designed for some specialized and specific purpose.

Other machines, like our older automobiles, are intended as more than just transportation. Though one might not think about such things too deeply, one's consumer tastes are often inextricably linked to one's self-concept and desired self-image. It's no different today. This is perhaps stating the obvious. But you all doubtlessly know guys who buy a new 911, Ferrari, Aston Martin, real M BMW or real AMG Mercedes, and they never exercise the incredible features these cars have. They just like knowing they can do it. Porsche certainly knows that. Some people do track their 911s. I believe most do not. Some people do take their G-wagen offroad. Most do not. I think nowhere is this more apparent than the typical profile of the person who buys a new Wrangler. It's fashion, baby, not for real. And that's okay. One doesn't need to be in Hawaii to don an Aloha shirt, nor does one need to be a real cowboy to wear their boots.

I have spent a while studying the hoard of material included with my car as well as that which appeared in contemporary American periodicals regarding our cars. I had a good idea of the romantic notions Mercedes tried to communicate to their target buyer long before I bought this car. And therein begins the real debate of originality. One can look at this like an American Constitutional scholar and say, "what is the intent here" versus "what is literally written". Often the two are very different. And often there is a lot of grey to be found. And if one isn't too careful, one can easily lose the plot, that is true, and one ends up in a Ship of Theseus situation wherein one is left with a car that does resemble a Pagoda but... is it? The same can be said for some of the extremely impressive works of engineering produced by the likes of Singer. Their cars aren't derivative of 911s. They are in another dimension. And yet, they have found their audience, those who want the ultimate car that resembles a 911. And indeed, I think no one can deny that the Singer is the ultimate evolution of one of those cars, and I think we can also have no doubt that if Porsche had the ability to produce such a car affordably, they would have! The point is that Singer, Icon, Mechatronik, etc have all taken the idea of their specialized car and distilled the formula to be as pure as it can be, while delivering something to a contemporary audience that is but a modern evolution of the target audience the OEM had when initially producing the vehicle.

And Dan, I don't think it's fair to look at companies like RUF, Alpina, AMG, Renntech, AC Schnitzer, Shelby, Callaway, and others and deride them as if they are yahoos covered in grease racing a Model A down Woodward in 1955. And at least those guys were having loads of fun, so I'm not deriding the latter either. Lots of these forums are filled with a very dour bunch of guys who have left behind their beginner's mind and spirit of inquiry to the abyss of time. The aforementioned companies have done a lot of work pushing the envelope and showing what is possible in these cars, sometimes when the manufacturer doesn't deserve it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. But they have all helped build and shape the legend and mythos of various companies often much better than their marketing arm ever could. And often by the time they were done, there was very little of the "original car" left... except the idea of that original car, and its overall form factor. That's important.

I argue that Mercedes basically let their motorsport arm for consumer vehicles atrophy when they started to geld the 113 later in its production. I believe you'd agree with me, Dan, as I have read some of your posts from the last 20 years or so on this forum that basically state as much, especially in re: the values of the 230 vs the 280. The 113 went down a different skill tree than it could have, becoming softer and more accessible to a particular audience, and I don't blame Mercedes, for if Porsche did nothing but make 911s they would be out of business. But I envision a time when they more seriously invested in racing the car. Think of how much they could have undercut BMW had that happened. The 113 would have truly been the true ultimate driving machine, or perhaps like the company's 911, instead of the lineage that you see play out over the course of the 107, 129, and 230 generations.

More can always be said about the above, but let this be some food for thought. We each have our reasons for purchasing this car, as each owner did when they were new. This is a question to all forum members. If you had to name one reason, what might it be?
Was it because your father or grandfather had one?
Was it because you like Paul Bracq's design?
Or you are just in love with the variants of the i6 sitting in the engine bay?
You like the idea of yourself driving one? (And if so, what does that *actually mean*?)
You like the overall build quality?
You think it shows taste and restraint?
You liked that it won the Spa-Sofia-Liege rally?
You like that Stirling Moss had one?
You liked the cameo in "Mad Men"?

And any other number of reasons. I think the design is snappy and build quality is superior for cars of its era. In an era when manufacturers designed and built male and female-oriented cars, I think Mercedes wanted to have a broad appeal to a clientele that thought of themselves as sophisticated and mature. So the car had lots of compromises in the actual technical aspects. This was noted in many contemporary reviews. By the time the E9 came out in 1968 and Porsche was beginning to really distinguish itself with the 911S in 1967, it's evident Mercedes ceded away that part of the market until basically 1999 when they merged with AMG. Again, I argue that it didn't have to be that way, and exploring what Mercedes might have done to improve these cars instead of abandoning the Pagoda altogether for something else is an interesting intellectual path.
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MikeSimon

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2023, 13:33:04 »
I will add why I bought the 280SL. I was not infatuated neither with the design nor the image (because it was a "Mercedes") or the performance.
I bought the car in 1982 when it was just over 10 years old and it was NOT a vintage collector car yet. It was just a used car. It cost me the US $ equivalent of approx. 5k.
I was married and I was looking into something for leisure purposes. Actually, my first choice was a motorcycle, because of my mc background. My wife sort of objected and suggested a convertible sports car. I turned to a Triumph TR6 and had looked at a few, when a friend and colleagued, who also worked at GM suggested I should look at a Pagoda SL as they would keep their value better than the English car. I checked the market and found a red 4-speed 280SL. After we signed the sales contract and paid DM 1000.- down, the seller changed his mind and pulled out. Shortly after we found the car I now have. The performance compared to other "sports cars" was so-so, the handling with the rear "Pendelachse" was horrible, but none of that mattered because all we wanted was something we could use to cruise the Rhine valley on a sunny Sunday. I never considered the car superior in looks, design or technical detail. I appreciated it for a good, solid "Made in Germany" car with doors that closed with a decent clunk instead of a tinny chatter.
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Jack the Knife

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2023, 15:29:23 »
The performance compared to other "sports cars" was so-so, the handling with the rear "Pendelachse" was horrible, but none of that mattered because all we wanted was something we could use to cruise the Rhine valley on a sunny Sunday. I never considered the car superior in looks, design or technical detail. I appreciated it for a good, solid "Made in Germany" car with doors that closed with a decent clunk instead of a tinny chatter.

Thanks for sharing your story, Mike. There’s just something about those doors, isn’t there? The older G-wagens feel much the same in that way. A thud that inspires confidence.

Other car clubs devoted to models with  swing axles have figured out ways to rectify them. This really demands more study. There are some extremely talented people on this forum and I have no doubt a conversion kit could be developed here.

I spoke with Addco again this morning after gathering more info from Andrew Cox. I will amend the top of the post with my findings. He said ETA is 4-6 weeks from order. A one-off is $475. At ten units, it is discounted to $275. If it’s somewhere in between, he said we can work something out. For bushings, we can turn to our own Wallace Wheeler, who posted above.

I will place my order in 2 weeks. If you’d like to join my order, please say so!
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teahead

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2023, 17:34:18 »
well...if I didn't already pickup a 22mm bar, I'd be in on this.

I think these Pagodas, albeit beautiful, can seriously be improved driveability wise.

Who besides lowriders, like to drive at a snails pace?  Who prefers a car that can handle corners w/o having to slow down 10mph below the speed limit for that curve?

Bolt-on mods can easily be removed.

Not a big deal for owners of THEIR cars do what they want w/them.
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wwheeler

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2023, 03:38:23 »
I DO NOT look at urethane bushings when used as a performance upgrade for the W113 as an all or none proposition. To me there are three stages 1) sway bar (kind of a no brainier to me) 2) Rear axle trailing arm (both front and back) 3) front flat spring bushing. Those are totally separate components and are not serviced at the same time. So you can easily experiment with what works for your tastes and what doesn't.   
Wallace
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cfm65@me.com

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2023, 13:31:11 »
Hi Guys,
Any suggestions on reducing the nosedive during braking?

Wallace,
We obviously now know stage 1 of the performance upgrade.

Would you please enlighten us on your last 2 stages? The rear trailing arms and the front flat spring washer.
Much appreciated.
Regards
Chris
« Last Edit: January 14, 2023, 13:48:28 by cfm65@me.com »
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Lorsar

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2023, 14:19:52 »
Chris, the search function is your friend.  Look for Wallace's post in Commercial Advertising.
Lori
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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2023, 14:28:46 »
Tks Lorsar,
Chris
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ja17

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2023, 16:31:05 »
Has anyone tried John Olson's progressive rate springs on a pagoda?
Joe Alexander
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roymil

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2023, 16:36:41 »
I'm interested in the 30mm bar as I'm sitting here with a 20 right now.   Does anyone remember a previous post with a chart or link showing the relative stiffness or deflection/force  to be expected from different diameter sway bars? I've searched without luck.   

Previous to this thread, I thought moving to a 22mm bar was my only option for a 280SL but I'm just a little concerned 30mm is too stiff?   I'm not sure what the downside is though because I like a car flat in a turn.

That said, I'm not seeing 30mm bushings at Millers, so before we get one we'd need to know the bushing source and know its going to fit with our mounting hardware.

thanks
Mark
Mark Miller
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wwheeler

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2023, 16:38:42 »
I can repost these write ups on the bushings and hopefully takes out some of the mystery.
Wallace
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wwheeler

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2023, 16:42:54 »
Millers does not have the 30mm (actually 28.5mm) urethane sway bar bushing on their site because I never offered it to them. I have never made those since the large bar hasn't been available for years. That being said, I can make those and provide to Millers. I will take a look at it, but from recollection, It fits with the factory hardware and brackets. Plug and play. 

BTW - 28.5 is exactly 1-1/8" and what you want the bar diameter to be.
Wallace
Texas
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roymil

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2023, 16:50:47 »
Thank You Wallace!
Mark Miller
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Jack the Knife

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2023, 19:29:18 »
Reminder that I’m ordering sway bars on Friday, the 27th! Have only had a few takers but would be nice to get the price down!
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JohnnyC

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2023, 00:54:14 »
Jack, How much do you anticipate the cost per person will be?

Cheers,
JohnnyC
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 00:58:42 by JohnnyC »
John
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Jack the Knife

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2023, 03:01:28 »
Jack, How much do you anticipate the cost per person will be?

Cheers,
JohnnyC

Hey Johnny, $475 is what I'd anticipate if we don't meet the threshold for $275, which is ten orders. However, they are willing to work with us if we get like 5.
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Jack the Knife

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2023, 18:14:24 »
Remember to call Addco and place your order! And if you are interested in the bar only at $275, let them know! I will be taking my sway bar off and taking it down to them so they can get some measurements on Monday, so there is plenty of time still.
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wwheeler

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2023, 18:46:15 »
I can handle the bushings that will fit the factory brackets and end link washers. I can also upgrade the end link bolt to 3/8 from the factory 8mm if desired.
Wallace
Texas
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Jack the Knife

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2023, 15:57:06 »
Dropped my sway bar off at Addco yesterday for measurements. What a cool joint. They gave me a tour of their factory, showing me some machines from the 50s or so taken from factories in Detroit that had shut down decades ago that they use for some purposes -- massive huge gears and stamps and such all proudly emblazoned with "Made in Brooklyn" or "Made in Detroit" or wherever. I look forward to their work.

Only one other guy called them to order a bar. For shame.
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roymil

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2023, 20:43:13 »
I just placed my order.  Looking forward to it.   Time now to order some urethane bushings!  Wally?    Also seems to make a lot of sense to upgrade to the heavier 3/8 end link bolt.  Is it hardened?   

After reading up a bit, it seems we should expect less oversteer, which is good, but also need to lookout for losing the rear end.  Some have suggested stiffer rear springs should go with the sway bar but I'll want to test that theory first, cant wait.
Mark Miller
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rwmastel

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2023, 21:47:42 »
After reading up a bit, it seems we should expect less oversteer, which is good, but also need to lookout for losing the rear end.
I think you mean less understeer.  It might induce oversteer, which could be interpreted as "losing the rear end".

Some have suggested stiffer rear springs should go with the sway bar but I'll want to test that theory first, cant wait.
I would imagine re-engineering a suspension system to have proper balance and behavior is not a simple matter.  I wish all you modifiers and upgraders luck.  Hopefully you find a good sorted solution/combination of different springs, shocks, rear compensating spring, sway bars, sway bar links, and bushings.
Rodd

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Jack the Knife

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2023, 22:25:48 »
I just placed my order.  Looking forward to it.   Time now to order some urethane bushings!  Wally?    Also seems to make a lot of sense to upgrade to the heavier 3/8 end link bolt.  Is it hardened?   

After reading up a bit, it seems we should expect less oversteer, which is good, but also need to lookout for losing the rear end.  Some have suggested stiffer rear springs should go with the sway bar but I'll want to test that theory first, cant wait.

I appreciate your order!!

Perhaps a separate thread should be made to discuss this, but I was brainstorming with a friend who raced 356s, and he mentioned 1) Porsche's leaf spring mounted transversely under the axle (which functions similarly to the over-the-axle coil spring Mercedes uses) performs quite well and 2) that Porsche introduced "Z-bars" towards the end of the run of the 356. That technology was passed on to VW and such bars remained on the Beetle until its end. This may be worth investigating.
1964 230SL
2015 G550 """Professional"""

wwheeler

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2023, 22:55:35 »
Just let me know how many kits ae needed for the 30 (28.5mm) bar. I can provide the two frame bushings and eight end link bushings. Also included is the special lube used for these bushings. Don't use mineral grease!

For the end link bushings, I can do either factory 8mm or the upgraded 3/8". I don't supply the steel parts as those easily attainable. For the 3/8", you can get a grade 8 bolt the same length as the factory. You can drill out the factory washers but they may fit as is.

Either PM me or reply to this thread if you want a set. I suspect the price will be around $70 for the set.   
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

wwheeler

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2023, 04:31:54 »
28.5 mm sway bar frame bushing. First one out of the oven.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

roymil

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2023, 14:29:21 »
Excellent!  Thank you !  Yes, please, count me in for a full set, frame & 3/8 end-link bushings.   And thanks for the reminder about the lube.   I didn't remember that when I re-installed my bar last time and there's been more than a little noise and creaking coming from up front.

I think we all understand this thick sway bar is an experiment.  I understand why Mercedes designed the suspension the way they did,  but I'm just not happy with the amount of body roll when I push it, so I'm willing to try something different, especially bolt on mods, and then *carefully* figure out what else is needed to compensate for any negative effects.

nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Mark Miller
1968 280SL
Rode in his pagoda's first mile.

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2023, 23:42:59 »
Yes, the thing you have to remember about urethane bushings is that they behave differently than rubber in situ. Urethane does not deflect as much as rubber and why it is used. But that also means that in the case of a few rotating joints, the shaft rotates inside the bushing where as with a rubber bushing, the rubber itself twists. You will frequently find old rubber bushings bonded to the metal shafts. That is because the shafts don't move in the rubber bushing and bond to the rubber.

A good example is the sway frame bushing. The bar doesn't rotate much but enough that it could create noise in the urethane bushing without a lubricant. Yes, a lubricant is always recommend for urethane and that is why. The type I use is exceedingly tacky, thick and wash off resistant. It is a one time application.

The sway bar is a good place to experiment because it is easily removed/installed. Let me know when you guys get the bars and I will get the kit assembled.     
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

roymil

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2023, 18:52:56 »
Well, I finally received the new sway bar!   Not surprised it took longer and I always assume custom work takes twice as long.

It actually measures 1.35inches (28.82mm) , so it's a tad over 1.25, but it does look like some of that is just a very heavy coat of shiny black epoxy paint.

Given the thickness difference it seems to make sense to go with end link hole sizes for 3/8 upgraded hardware. 

Wally,  Did you already make some, or do they need to be ordered?   Let us know the cost.

much appreciated!  -thanks, Mark
Mark Miller
1968 280SL
Rode in his pagoda's first mile.

wwheeler

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2023, 22:24:26 »
Yes, the frame bushings are available for this as is the 3/8" bolt size end link bushings. I have sent one order and another is just about out the door. I will get started on yours asap. Give me a week or two. I will PM you the order details.

Wallace
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

teahead

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2023, 18:15:58 »
How does it fit?

My 22mm sway bar hit the compressor.  I'll have to add shims to the sway bar brackets.
1970 280SL auto, AC - aka "Edelweiss"

roymil

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2023, 20:48:25 »
I haven't had a chance to fit it yet but I can see how it might come closer to the compressor so we may need a spacer.   I think that should be fine as long as it's steel and completely supports the bushing.   
Mark Miller
1968 280SL
Rode in his pagoda's first mile.

roymil

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Re: 30mm Sway Bars
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2023, 02:02:06 »
This past long weekend allowed me time to install the new 28.5mm sway bar and I am a very happy camper!   Thanks to all who helped with advice, info, and parts contacts to make it possible.

I just took it for a spin and hit some corners hard enough to really feel the improvement.   There is much less body roll now and it didn't seem to be rough or harsh at all over a few speed bumps.   Obviously I can't quantify anything with a specific measurement (unless someone knows a method?) but I feel certain that I hit some corners that would have been close to losing it with the original setup and now it sails through with finesse.   I'm not talking crazy or reckless driving here, this is just taking a harder turn at 30mph, the way you would in any newer sports car.   With the original setup, the roll was a bit scary and the rear end started coming around, mucho oversteer.  That is just not fun.     Now...FUN!!! :-)

Maybe you are thinking I shouldn't push a pagoda that hard but I'm realistically just never going to have a new 911 to toss around, so this is it, it has to be fun to drive as well as  beautiful to look at.   Of course, as with all of my mods this is all completely bolt on and reversible to completely original in probably less than an hour not counting clean up.

That said, it did take me all weekend to install and adjust because it wasn't a perfect fit out of the box, although it was fixable with a grinder and drill followed by primer and paint.  The right end of the bar didn't position exactly where it should and, as someone warned, the much thicker bar just touched the bottom of the AC compressor pulley.  Once I measured multiple times I removed some steel bits and bent some other steel bits and it was fine.  Nothing near enough to effect the bar strength though.    I definitely recommend the 3/8 hardened end link hardware because the original just doesn't seem stout enough for this new bar.

All of the custom urethane parts fit perfectly Wally, thank you very much!   ...and not a peep or creak out of any of it using that nice thick grease.

It does seem to sit about 1/2 inch higher in than it did before.   I believe the new bar combines with the stiff urethane and slightly shorter end links to form a more rigid structure that must provide more vertical support.  I don't know if I care and I wont try to do anything about it until everything settles in.   I might be imagining it but I believe the brake dive is a little less too.  Possibly just due to much stronger and stiffer parts up there resisting movement in any axis.  I'm certain the bar to link joint must be a lot more rigid now.

All in all this was a very good project!   Thanks much to Jacktheknife for getting the ball rolling.

Now I get to start the interior work since I've pretty much finished every other major electrical and mechanical item on the list.   

Cheers!  Mark

   
Mark Miller
1968 280SL
Rode in his pagoda's first mile.