Author Topic: M130.920 Rebuild and Upgrade Options  (Read 2513 times)

eDaddi

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M130.920 Rebuild and Upgrade Options
« on: April 06, 2022, 03:45:38 »
Here everybody, I've been stalking your M130 data and havent seen much searching for M130.920 info.  Probably because they were mostly in the w108/109 models but it seems the tech depth is deep here.

So ... **puts flame suite on**

I picked up a M130.920 to put in my 1955 Unimog 404 and am looking to get the most out of a rebuild.  I was hoping somebody could shed some light on the block/head I have.

The block is stamped with: 130.920-10-033529
The head was cast with: 130 016 09 01 ... 9.0 compression above that.  To the right is 280S/A

Since I'll be running propane I'd like to up the compression.  I've read about the heads with the 9.5 compression ratio, but I'm not sure where to look for one.  I'm not familiar enough to know if this is round or square type heads... I just know they exist...and I'd like the increased compression if there is one that would work.

I would be open, would even like, to add very mild turbo as well so I'm not sure if a higher compression head would be needed then.  Seems like there are a lot of purists here, but has anybody turbo one of these old hot rods? lol

It wasn't until I was reading around here that I realized there are so many cam profiles for these.  Is there a way to tell what my block has based off the number stamped on it?  This is an off-road only rig so I'd like to compare them and see which would be best for that.

If this meddling or upgrading a M130 belongs in the R&D forum can a mod please move this?

TIA
1955 Unimog 404, here for the M130 tech

MikeSimon

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Re: M130.920 Rebuild and Upgrade Options
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2022, 12:16:40 »
I cannot comment on the particular engine and head you have but it looks like it is a head for a carburetor motor. I have done some investigating regarding heads, because the original one on my 1971 SL is somewhat out of the ordinary. There are M130 heads with both 9.0 and 9.5 compression ratio even in the M130-983 (SL) variation. I have seen both heads and cannot make out any significant difference in the combustion chamber that would indicate different compression ratio. I also do not know whether your head has square or oval combustion chambers. I do not believe you will find a significant difference in output/performance from going from 9.0 to 9.5
It looks like to me that Mercedes changed the M130-983 at one point from 9.5 to 9.0 but the hp output rating remained the same. Many later heads, especially in the US do not have the compression ratio show anymore on the head, suggesting MB did not want to exhibit this change. Funny enough, in other countries, they do.
Another upgrade you could consider, that would probably more "effective" is changing the cam. Again, this is a shot in the dark, I do not know what the cam variations in the M130-920 are and what else you can fit. Good luck!
1970/71 280SL Automatic
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eDaddi

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Re: M130.920 Rebuild and Upgrade Options
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2022, 15:30:44 »
Thanks for the info Mike.

I do not believe you will find a significant difference in output/performance from going from 9.0 to 9.5
I'm not 100% either, I've honestly never purpose built a motor like this.  If I ever had issues with one I'd drop in another lol

Another upgrade you could consider, that would probably more "effective" is changing the cam. Again, this is a shot in the dark, I do not know what the cam variations in the M130-920 are and what else you can fit. Good luck!
Do the cams vary my model number (130.920, 130.980,130.983, etc) or do they even vary within those numbers?
1955 Unimog 404, here for the M130 tech

MikeSimon

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Re: M130.920 Rebuild and Upgrade Options
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2022, 18:24:44 »
The cams even vary within the engine configurations, (e.g.: M130-983). Some are due to different hp outputs, some are due to emission regulations in certain countries. Cam timing and lift determine engine characteristics. As a full member, you will have access to the "Technical Manual" section with a lot more of invaluable information, although not always complete.
Some information is based on the respective authors personal knowledge/experience in a certain market and may miss certain other data.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
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ja17

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Re: M130.920 Rebuild and Upgrade Options
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2022, 03:42:20 »
I also have a 404 Unimog. You will need a carbureted M130 engine for sure. There is not enough room for the Mechanical fuel injection. For the most horsepower look for a non-emission M130 engine. Carbureted USA emission equipped engines started behaving badly and lost a lot of horsepower in the late 60s and early 70s. Some of the non emission M130 carbureted engines (euro delivery) had a stock HP of 130 (DIN). If you have to use a USA engine, think about using a Weber Carb conversion since these are simpler and are not loaded down with emission devices like the original Zeniths carburetors. Research the camshaft options for more HP also.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2006 Mercedes Sprinter Van
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

eDaddi

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Re: M130.920 Rebuild and Upgrade Options
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2022, 16:56:47 »
The cams even vary within the engine configurations, (e.g.: M130-983). Some are due to different hp outputs, some are due to emission regulations in certain countries. Cam timing and lift determine engine characteristics. As a full member, you will have access to the "Technical Manual" section with a lot more of invaluable information, although not always complete.
Some information is based on the respective authors personal knowledge/experience in a certain market and may miss certain other data.
I signed up for access to that and I don't see much about the M130.920, or cam specifics either.

I also have a 404 Unimog. You will need a carbureted M130 engine for sure. There is not enough room for the Mechanical fuel injection. For the most horsepower look for a non-emission M130 engine. Carbureted USA emission equipped engines started behaving badly and lost a lot of horsepower in the late 60s and early 70s. Some of the non emission M130 carbureted engines (euro delivery) had a stock HP of 130 (DIN). If you have to use a USA engine, think about using a Weber Carb conversion since these are simpler and are not loaded down with emission devices like the original Zeniths carburetors. Research the camshaft options for more HP also.
I already picked up a M130.920 which is the carb version.  Is there a way to tell if it's a US or Euro version?  I'll be running propane, it worked nicely on the stock M180 but I'll need a bigger one for this M130.
1955 Unimog 404, here for the M130 tech

ja17

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Re: M130.920 Rebuild and Upgrade Options
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2022, 04:22:37 »
The M130.920 is from a USA 280S sedan with 9.0 : 1.0  compression ratio. The USA version block and head is fine.  In this case any horsepower loss would be due to the ignition timing (distributor and other emission timing devices installed). Also the camshaft valve timing is slightly modified for USA emission engines. The camshaft is stamped with an ID number on the extreme back end of the camshaft. Search the forum for "camshaft chart" for some information on each ID number. Running on propane will solve some carb. emission issues. The dual carburetor manifold might cause clearance problems in the Unimog? Using the M130 exhaust manifold will allow the engine to breathe easier since the M180 exhaust manifold is much smaller. There is a guy on one of the Unimog forums who recently transplanted a M130 in his 404 Unimog "Joe Obrinsky" ?  I'll try to find the information for you.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2006 Mercedes Sprinter Van
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

ja17

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Re: M130.920 Rebuild and Upgrade Options
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2022, 05:26:24 »
Try reaching out to "Joe O'Bremsky" on the "Unimogs of North America" Facebook group.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2006 Mercedes Sprinter Van
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

mdsalemi

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Re: M130.920 Rebuild and Upgrade Options
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2022, 15:36:36 »
OK, eDaddi--see you joined as a full member, great. Now you have access to our technical resources, limited as they may be for what you may be wanting.

Nobody is going to flame you on Unimog stuff here. Maybe if you attempted to turn a Pagoda into a rock climber, you may be flamed, but you are not...so welcome!!

...however you are really stepping into a dark arena, with many costly pitfalls ahead of you trying to do things that may not have been done before. If they have been done before, perhaps they were one-offs and not documented. Sometimes, also, there's a reason why things have not been done before. Many times people have tried and failed. I've seen many older cars that have been worked on over the years, and instead of trying to work with the original engine, or even a re-worked older engine, the restoration folks get a crate engine. Saw a restored 1937 Cadillac the other day, that originally had a 6 liter V12 in it. Instead of screwing around with that, the restorer put a modified LS2 engine in it from a modern 6 liter Cadillac CTS.

You are trying to put an old M130 motor into an even older Unimog chassis. You are perhaps wanting to experiment with cams as well. On top of all this, you want to run it on propane!

Unless you want to get caught in a quagmire, you may consider a plan using the scientific method. If you really want to do all of this, I'd suggest you construct an engine test stand that will allow you to run the engine outside of a chassis and test it on the stand when running. Back in Detroit where I used to live, there were all kinds of R&D places that had this kind of setup with advanced diagnostic equipment inside of controlled test cells. If you are a billionaire, you could hire some help and contract for a test cell. If you are not, well, you'll have to make your own!

The first thing you may consider after building the engine test setup is diagnosing the health and condition of the engine in its present state. No sense trying to experiment with cams, different carburetors, or even propane when the head needs a valve job, or your rings are shot, cylinders scored or any number of other engine maladies. Once you get the engine health diagnosed, and running properly, then you can experiment with cams, carbs and propane. I know that there will be some serious diagnostic equipment you'll need to test each change to the cam, ignition, fuel and more. You may have to search long and hard to find some of this stuff.

The scientific method will tell you do one thing at a time. If you do a bunch of different things all at once, you'll never know what the issue is when it doesn't work right.

Good luck!  Sounds like a long, fun project for you!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2022, 15:41:49 by mdsalemi »
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
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eDaddi

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Re: M130.920 Rebuild and Upgrade Options
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2022, 16:39:19 »
Try reaching out to "Joe O'Bremsky" on the "Unimogs of North America" Facebook group.
I'm in that group and have read up on all of Joe's stuff.  Putting a M130 into a mog is pretty simple and has been done plenty.  Most just buy and drop it in, since I'm having this rebuilt I want to make sure to maximize the effort.  I want it done right the first time so I can move onto the next build.

Here is a good example:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CLQawNoBKaz/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

That has a custom cam and sound like it eats.  Since I'll be more crawling on trails I don't want that heavy lob in the engine. I would think that'd get old after a few hours which is why I was wondering which M130 version had the mosts aggressive cam for peak performance yet what they still considered road worthy.

OK, eDaddi--see you joined as a full member, great. Now you have access to our technical resources, limited as they may be for what you may be wanting.

Nobody is going to flame you on Unimog stuff here. Maybe if you attempted to turn a Pagoda into a rock climber, you may be flamed, but you are not...so welcome!!
Well that was going to be my second build.   :o  :D


Where would be a good place on this forum to post looking for a local person that rebuilds these?
1955 Unimog 404, here for the M130 tech

ja17

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Re: M130.920 Rebuild and Upgrade Options
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2022, 01:18:07 »
The camshaft in the W113 280SL pagoda is the most aggressive for the M130 engine and will give you around 10 additional horsepower.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2006 Mercedes Sprinter Van
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

MikeSimon

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Re: M130.920 Rebuild and Upgrade Options
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2022, 14:18:53 »
The camshaft in the W113 280SL pagoda is the most aggressive for the M130 engine and will give you around 10 additional horsepower.

..and there were several different cams for the 280SL  M130-983...
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

Benz Dr.

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Re: M130.920 Rebuild and Upgrade Options
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2022, 18:17:41 »
I think we are talking about the euro cam in a 280?
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