Seat height adjustment

[Merc_Girl]

Once again I’m turning to our esteemed members for your ideas

So, Bessy still not back, so I thought I would torment myself with some other things to do.

So, whilst I’m sure most members are tall, trapping lads, I am mindful that I am diametrically opposed in such characteristics!

Whilst I can drive Bessy well enough, when when I have her that is, I would like the seat raised a little. No, I’m not going to sit on a cushion before anyone suggests that!

I don’t want to install spacers as my husband drives Bessy as well.

Many cars used to, and maybe still do, have a mechanical system to alter the height, I think also the angle but I’m not so fussed about that. I’m just wondering if anyone knows of a seat height adjustment unit that perhaps the seat frame and rails could bolt onto, or ones that just need minor amendments.

I’ve done a search on the forum but couldn’t find any results

Perhaps it can’t be done, so would be interested to know why not

My thanks as always

Katie

[Cees Klumper]

Hi Katie - my first thought was to put in spacers, but then read that's not an option for you.

It's very unlikely there will be any aftermarket variable height system, because cars are almost all different when it comes to the seat mountings.

You could probably find and pay someone to take such a system from another car (model) and adapt it to the Pagoda. Would likely involve cutting, welding, grinding and painting so expect it to cost some.

That's my 2 cents anyway, maybe there is an easier solution someone has found out there.  Not an issue for me since I am the sole driver, or my son, and we're both around 6'2" ....

[Merc_Girl]

Thanks Cees

I’m wondering if any of the saloons/sedans of the same period may of had height adjustment on their seats for the ‘premium’ models of the time? Maybe the Pullman, albeit not too sure how many seat frames for such cars are available! 😁

[Tomnistuff]

Hello Merc_Girl,
I did it.  It is perhaps that my seats were old, but I found that my seating position needed improving by raising the seats somewhat.  Not the least influence was that my wife is four feet eight inches in height.  I decided on a fixed 19 mm elevation.  Larger would infringe on thigh room under our large "tractor-like" steering wheels and smaller would probably weaken the hollow square cross-section tube where you have to drill the bolt holes.
During my restoration, I bought a length of square cross-section steel tubing from the hardware store.  I dont remember the length, but I can measure the four lengths that I cut with a hacksaw if you would like to know.  I can also take a photo of the setup under the seat.  The cross-section was a standard 3/4 inch square (19 mm square).  All that was necessary was to drill two holes through each tube for the front and rear bolts on each side of each seat and to buy bolts that were 19 mm longer to get through the tubes.  I did both seats.
It required a little bit if fiddling (manual dexterity) to position the square tubes between the seat rails and the floor pan brackets, but nothing an average mechanic or an owner with incentive can't handle.
The seat fore-aft adjustment is unaffected.
Let me know if you want more info, measurements, or photos.  After I posted, I saw your note about your husband, so it may not work for you.  19 mm is not much though.
Tom Kizer

[Merc_Girl]

Hello Merc_Girl,
I did it.  It is perhaps that my seats were old, but I found that my seating position needed improving by raising the seats somewhat.  Not the least influence was that my wife is four feet eight inches in height.  I decided on a fixed 19 mm elevation.  Larger would infringe on thigh room under our large "tractor-like" steering wheels and smaller would probably weaken the hollow square cross-section tube where you have to drill the bolt holes.
During my restoration, I bought a length of square cross-section steel tubing from the hardware store.  I dont remember the length, but I can measure the four lengths that I cut with a hacksaw if you would like to know.  I can also take a photo of the setup under the seat.  The cross-section was a standard 3/4 inch square (19 mm square).  All that was necessary was to drill two holes through each tube for the front and rear bolts on each side of each seat and to buy bolts that were 19 mm longer to get through the tubes.  I did both seats.
It required a little bit if fiddling (manual dexterity) to position the square tubes between the seat rails and the floor pan brackets, but nothing an average mechanic or an owner with incentive can't handle.
The seat fore-aft adjustment is unaffected.
Let me know if you want more info, measurements, or photos.  After I posted, I saw your note about your husband, so it may not work for you.  19 mm is not much though.
Tom Kizer

Hi Tom

That sounds fab, yes please! Would be very interested in seeing you pictures and dimensions

Very impressed that you made your own rather than cannibalising an existing frame 😁.

I’ll PM you with my details

Katie 

[badali]

My 280SE 4.5 had adjustments for height.  The only problem with mounting that seat in a 113 is that the mounting points are lower in the car floor.  You would have to do some cutting and welding but the seat would be compatible otherwise.

[JamesL]

Stupid question… how supportive is your seat?
You might start with the cheapest of all options with some pool noodles and see if having a slightly better bolstered/firm seat helps at all.

We both drive our car and while I may be “strapping”, my better half is about 5’6 and has no issues

[wjsvb]

From my experience, the 108/9 seat height adjustment mechanisms might be too large for our little rockets.  One thought: an electric adjustment mechanism from a later C class might be fitted.  The advantage is that the outfit is self-contained, sturdy, easily removable and can be found in junkyards world-wide.  I'm planning a Pick-and-Pull run this week and will explore.

[Merc_Girl]

Stupid question… how supportive is your seat?
You might start with the cheapest of all options with some pool noodles and see if having a slightly better bolstered/firm seat helps at all.

We both drive our car and while I may be “strapping”, my better half is about 5’6 and has no issues

Hi James

I remember you are indeed ‘strapping’ 😁. However your wife, who unfortunately we didnt meet, is taller than me! I’m a real shorty!!

I love the seats.  not sure if they are suppose to feel like you are sitting in a big leather lounge chair in a gentleman’s club, (not that I’ve been a gentleman’s club!) , but I like that feeling 😁

[Merc_Girl]

My 280SE 4.5 had adjustments for height.  The only problem with mounting that seat in a 113 is that the mounting points are lower in the car floor.  You would have to do some cutting and welding but the seat would be compatible otherwise.

Ooh, that’s interesting, and sort of in period which I kinda like

Thank you 😁

[Merc_Girl]

From my experience, the 108/9 seat height adjustment mechanisms might be too large for our little rockets.  One thought: an electric adjustment mechanism from a later C class might be fitted.  The advantage is that the outfit is self-contained, sturdy, easily removable and can be found in junkyards world-wide.  I'm planning a Pick-and-Pull run this week and will explore.

That’s very kind of you, that would be grand
I like the old days when one was permitted to scrabble around scrap yard to find things before health and safety got involved.
I feel I’m in a bit of a Catch 22 situation in that I don’t know what may be compatible as I can’t go a look at different options!

[Tomnistuff]

Hi Katie,
I had forgotten that the long square tubes were difficult to install and that I had shortened them to about 1-1/2 inches each in order to install one seat corner at a time.  You can see in the photos that it's really simple.  Making them short also provides another advantage.  You can tilt the seat fore or aft with different spacers without regard to the seat back which is already adjustable.  NOTE: Since your husband is tall, and requires the seat to be farther back, the spacers have almost no effect on his seating position.  As the seat is pushed back for longer legs and arms, it already moves lower for a longer torso.  Your seat position being forward, the only thing you have to worry about is having enough space below the steering wheel.  If you already have power steering, you can also buy a smaller diameter steering wheel from EZ electric power steering in the Netherlands to accommodate an even higher seating position.  That is if you are willing to mortgage your house to pay for it.  Take a look at the photos.  There are probably lots of ways to do what you want, except for making the height quickly adjustable.
Tom Kizer

[Tomnistuff]

I forgot the photos.

[Mike Hughes]

Hi Katie and Tom -

Using square tube as a spacer is how I raised the driver's seat in Lucy's MGB-GT so that she could drive it without having to sit on a pillow.  One thing that I found useful to do to prevent the possibility collapsing the tube was to insert a length of round tubing upright inside the square tube as a strengthening spacer for the fastening bolt to pass through when installing the raised seat.  Even with the seat raised I can still drive the GT just fine, so this simple means of raising the seat should probably not prevent your husband from being able to comfortably drive it, Katie.

[BobH]

Unistrut is an alternative, immensely strong and available in different sizes

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=uni+strut&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=square+metal+tube&_osacat=0

[jeblack123]

Good afternoon,

What size and length bolts did you use to fit with the square tubes?

James

[Tomnistuff]

Good afternoon,

What size and length bolts did you use to fit with the square tubes?

James

The rear bolts for the seats with a 19 mm tube are M6 x 1.0 x 40mm.  The front bolts are M8 x 1.25 x 40mm for the seats with a 19 mm tube.
Installation and Removal:  The rear bolts and "short tubes like in my photos above" are easy to install and remove with the seat slid all the way forward.  The front bolts and "short tubes like in my photos above" are not so easy to install and remove.  Because there is not much space under the front of the seats to install and remove the bolts, it is easiest to install the front bolts in the seat frame before installing the seats in the car because with the seats out, the seat adjusters can be extended farther forward  (like sliding the seat back farther) to access the front bolt holes, then install the bolts in the slider holes and move the seat back forward a little to "trap" the front bolts in the holes while installing the seat.
Once the seats are in place and the front bolts are in their body holes but not tight, the  front bolts can be tightened enough to get the bolt head out of the way of the seat slider.  The seat can then be slid all the way forward to expose the rear bolt holes of the seat slider.  Install the rear bolts and them down, then slide the seat back and finish tightening the front bolts.
The above is what I was alluding to when I said that installation requires a bit of manual dexterity.
ALSO NOTE:  The 40mm length I gave for the front bolts is a guess based on the length of the rear bolts.  I removed and measured one of the 6mm diameter bolts, but it would have taken me a lot longer to remove a front bolt enough to measure its length.  I tried to remove one of the front bolts but I found that I would have had to remove the seat from the car to measure the bolt length.
Tom Kizer

[jeblack123]

Good morning and thank you Tom!

jeb

[wjsvb]

Katie:  I found a W124 power seat in my warehouse today: it measures 20"x20", meaning it may fit in the seat area of a 113, though that leaves a multitude of questions around attachment to the 113 seat, wiring, movement etc.  This creates a project for some intrepid Member...

[Merc_Girl]

Katie:  I found a W124 power seat in my warehouse today: it measures 20"x20", meaning it may fit in the seat area of a 113, though that leaves a multitude of questions around attachment to the 113 seat, wiring, movement etc.  This creates a project for some intrepid Member...

Thanks Jon

I will investigate further 😁

Katie

[Cees Klumper]

Also note that modern seats tend to be wider/bigger and may not fit on that account. Just today I was working on making adaptation brackets to fit my mid-seventies Lancia Beta seats into my early seventies Lancia Fulvia, and the Beta seats are already quite a bit wider.

[Merc_Girl]

Also note that modern seats tend to be wider/bigger and may not fit on that account. Just today I was working on making adaptation brackets to fit my mid-seventies Lancia Beta seats into my early seventies Lancia Fulvia, and the Beta seats are already quite a bit wider.

Was thinking of splicing that mechanical parts onto the pagoda seat?

Why are you putting Beta seats into a Fulvia? 😉

[Cees Klumper]

When I bought the Fulvia as a restoration project, it had no seats. Here in the US there are very few Fulvia's and I was not able to find good used seats. They are widely available in Europe, but due to the weight and size it would be very expensive to ship them here. I did find leather seats off a Beta in the right color that were as good as new and the seller was asking a modest amount for them, so that became my solution. Last night I managed to fit the passenger seat - very comfortable! Today will do the driver's seat. According Lancia specialists, the Beta seats are much more comfortable than original Fulvia seats would be:

[DaveB]

The seat looks great, and leather. A nice period upgrade. What would the original seats have been? More spartan I guess?

[Merc_Girl]

When I bought the Fulvia as a restoration project, it had no seats. Here in the US there are very few Fulvia's and I was not able to find good used seats. They are widely available in Europe, but due to the weight and size it would be very expensive to ship them here. I did find leather seats off a Beta in the right color that were as good as new and the seller was asking a modest amount for them, so that became my solution. Last night I managed to fit the passenger seat - very comfortable! Today will do the driver's seat. According Lancia specialists, the Beta seats are much more comfortable than original Fulvia seats would be:

Ah ha, a good plan then 😁. The high costs of shipments is very frustrating, I totally empathise with you on that!
Seats look very good, have fun fitting the driver’s seat. You’ll be the expert for other Lancia owners now who have similar issues😁