Author Topic: Quarter window reveal molding(s)  (Read 3002 times)

Tomnistuff

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Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« on: May 07, 2021, 16:55:40 »
To finish my restoration, I'm missing the shorter of the two plastic reveal moldings for the quarter windows.  Apparently it's been too long since I disassembled the car and I have lost those two short (B-pillar reveal moldings).  I have, however, the long (C-pillar) reveal moldings in good shape except the ends are crushed and distorted.  According to the photos on the SLS site, the short moldings (B-pillar) and the long moldings (C-pillar) appear to be very, very similar in cross-section.  I can't compare the overall sizes of the cross-sections but they are the same shape. 

Does anyone know if they are close enough that I could use the longer moldings, shortened to fit the B-pillar as a replacement.  I have the longer ones on order, but my old ones are like new except the ends.

I'm getting tired of ordering a piece every time I discover one missing, then paying through the nose and waiting a month for it to arrive.  It has been years since I started the project and I have apparently lost the short ones, although I don't remember ever seeing them.

Even with all the instructions for hardtop restoration and quarter window replacement, I still am struggling to understand how it goes back together.  I have never even seen a photo of the short reveal moldings for the B-pillar.  All I know is it is part number A0019872525.  The long one is A0010872625.

Are the cross-sections the same?  Especially enough to shorten the long ones to replace the short ones?

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Tom Kizer
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

Dave H

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2021, 18:22:13 »
Ones a bit bigger than the other but if your pushed it should work for what it does.
I just completed my hardtop last week.
Both fit on the inside once you’ve fitted the window, long one along the top simply pushes into place, short one is fitted at the same time as the chrome trim which rivets on to hold the short seal. No seal is fitted along the bottom.
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500

Tomnistuff

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2021, 02:16:15 »
Thank you so much, Dave.  Based on the difference I see in your first excellent photo, I am convinced that I must resolve myself to ordering the short one and waiting for the dealer to get it.  Because I am up here in Quebec, Canada, the usual vintage parts suppliers are no quicker nor less expensive than the local dealer.  The difference is pretty big, particularly when trying to fit it into a tight space with one's fingers.

Once the window is installed, is it obvious how the reveal molding should be oriented?  I don't even remember the details of disassembling the hardtop.  That was almost ten years ago.

Anyway, thank you so much for the excellent detail in the photos and the explanation.

Tom Kizer
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

Dave H

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2021, 08:01:29 »
Yes, once the windows fitted c/w seal  it’s obvious, “tiny tiny” wiping Of silicon grease helps everything along. Upright ( small seal )on the b post Is not pushed in, rather held in a sandwich with the chrome trim whilst you rivet or screw the chrome trim bit on . I found rivets easiest except where a screw heads are seen, rivets are much easier to remove ie drill them back out with a 3 mm drill in seconds.
One quarter window popped in easy, wondered what the fuss was about, second one was a pain and I was convinced I had the wrong window but eventually it fit.
Hope the following photos help,
Couple of the Headlining metal rod holding tags had snapped off my hardtop , easy to use a grinder with thin biscuit disc to Cut fashion another “ triangle” shape next to the broken ones.
Back Trim Window clips, fit them with the jagged edge uppermost as in photo.
Don’t be afraid to glue and reglue the headlining to get all the creases out.
4 Cardboard Headliner Insert bits at the side and rear quarters Work like shirt collar inserts, easy to work out though.
Like you it was ten years ago when I stripped my hardtop and mobile phone cameras were not as good then.
I used clear silicon on most everything except on the roof rack chrome bars.
Best of luck with it, mine took 7 full 8 hr days to assemble, best to take your time as everything is so visible, how the hell they put them together Quickly in the 1960s, they are so labour intensive.
Regards
Dave
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500

Dave H

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2021, 08:05:24 »
Hope these help
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500

Dave H

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2021, 08:11:31 »
And more
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500

Dave H

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2021, 08:13:13 »
Some more
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500

Dave H

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2021, 08:15:02 »
Last few
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500

Dave H

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2021, 08:18:14 »
Final ones, let me know if you get stuck, best of luck.
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500

Tomnistuff

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2021, 17:02:52 »
Hi Dave,

Thanks for the explanation.  Your top and car are beautiful.  I tend to "paint myself into corners" so I think I will not take the chance trying to use an old large C-pillar long one to replace a small B-pillar short one.  I would probably just have to take it apart again and buy the right parts to fix it correctly.  I'll just buy the right parts and take the time to do it right rather than take the time to do it over again.

By the way, I saw in my restoration documentation a photo showing a part of one of the pieces I'm missing, and a note that it was in a certain box to be thrown away when the project is finished.  It got thrown away early apparently, and I forgot that it ever existed.  I'm just getting too old to do this restoration stuff.  I can't wait to finish.  It's my last restoration project.

Tom Kizer
« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 18:19:51 by Tomnistuff »
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

Tomnistuff

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2021, 18:13:31 »
Hi again, Dave,

I'm troubled by something that I just realized.  We have been discussing these two plastic reveal moldings as "the long one" for the long arch of the C-pillar, and as "the short one" for the B-pillar.  Maybe we should be using the terms "skinny one" and "fat one".  The only problem is that I am no longer sure which goes where in terms of "skinny" or "fat", only short or long.

According to the SLS photos, which could possibly be switched, the "fat one" is the long C-pillar piece (A0019872625) and the "skinny one" is the short B-pillar piece (A0019872525).

It seems bizarre but the old long ones that I removed from the C-pillar appear to be the cross-section exactly like the skinny one shown in the SLS photo (A0019872525), which is exactly like the "skinny one" shown in your photo above on the left side.  I cannot be sure, since I have only the ones I removed from the long arch of the quarter window leading down to the base of the C-pillar.  I can't find the short B-pillar one to compare.  In about a week, I hope to receive the new C-pillar ones from the dealership.  If they are "fatter" than the ones I removed, then I will know that my car was built with "skinny" long ones and I can use the ones I removed for the B-pillar after shortening them.  I spent too many years in the auto industry and know what the factories are capable of when they run out of one part.  They use a similar one, if it is close enough to work.  Anything to avoid shutting down the assembly line.

Life is getting too complicated as I get closer to the end of the restoration.

Tom Kizer
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

Dave H

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2021, 19:21:01 »
The way I interpreted it and fitted it is as you describe,fat one" is the long C-pillar piece (A0019872625) and the "skinny one" is the short B-pillar piece (A0019872525).
It all went together OK 👍 my guidance was the SLS site also, the fat one pops beautifully into place on the long C pillar run however I can imagine back in the day on the production line and the guys thumb was sore or he’d ran out of one or the other either would work either way for what it does 😂
Mercedes 250SL    1967
Mercedes 250SLK  2014
Alfa Romeo 166 3.2 Ti
Fiat 500

Pawel66

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2021, 19:24:25 »
I have been going through this recently. I think if you have it still apart and can make pictures, it would benefit a lot of us if you put how it comes together in the Tech Manual.

There is a description of the hard top overhaul process there, but this particular part of the job (which part has which part number and where it goes) is not 100% clear there.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

Tomnistuff

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2021, 02:52:45 »
Hi Pawel,
That's a good idea.  Since I had already installed the inner and outer B-pillar chrome trim, the seal carrier and the seals for the side windows, in order to install the quarter windows, I found that I have to mostly remove them so I'll document and photograph the details of the work, including the observations of the difficulties.  Example:  At this point, it took me 10 minutes to figure out how to fit the quarter window seal to the window, since if you count them, I think there are four ways to fit the correct seal to the correct glass, but the wrong ways won't work or look correct.  I'm still not sure so I will check again tomorrow.
Tom Kizer
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

Tomnistuff

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2021, 00:13:47 »
Well, it has been 14 days since I posted that I would check "tomorrow" if I had the quarter window seal on the quarter window correctly.  Needless to say, I got sidetracked.  The weather turned not too bad and Covid restrictions are being loosened and my wife decided it was time to repaint all of the old "real" white wicker outdoor furniture for the verandas.  I am almost finished with the approximately 25 rattle cans of white paint, but got stopped by the humidity.

We ran out of propane for the barbeque.  I went to refill the tank, found it had expired (legally) and they would not refill it.  While there I decided to buy a new barbeque grill to go with the new tank to put the already paid for propane in and had to spend another day assembling it.  My cats drove me craz(ier) because I was outdoors working and they were watching me through the patio doors.  My wife decided I should design and build a Catio (enclose a part of the veranda for the cats, so they could be outdoors too).  I still have another week to build it since some of the parts I ordered have not arrived.

I'm hoping I can restart the Pagoda roof project, but since the weather is better and the plates have been renewed, I can drive it again but I need to retorque the cylinder head and fix the driver's window that dropped about an inch in the window lift mechanism "clamp", or whatever is synchronizing it to the window crank.  I have forgotten since it has been more than a year since I finished the doors on the restoration.

I did, however, get the seal on the quarter window (without sealer) and installed the chrome pieces on the hardtop (without sealer) to fit the quarter window, but it is too stiff for me to install (without lubricant), especially as only a trial fit.  I have decided not to force the issue, remove the chrome pieces and re-install everything with sealer correctly since it is just too damned difficult to do it more than once.  So far everything I completed on the hardtop has worked as M-B designed it to work, although while doing it, I would have sworn it would never go together.

The older I get, the more pessimistic I get.  I'm damned happy this is my last car project.
I'll get back to it in a couple of weeks, once the cats and wife are happy, and let you know how things are going together.

Tom Kizer
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

Tomnistuff

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2021, 20:02:20 »
I know that it has been 90 days since the last post in this thread and it left some things hanging.  I'll make one last post so that at least people who come here after a search won't leave cursing me.

In the end, I installed the quarter windows with the new reveal mouldings (the fat ones from the previous posts) and followed a lot of site recommendations for lubrication with quite a bit of Armor All protectant.  After dry fitting everything, including dry assembly of the chrome pieces with screws to develop my assembly technique, I masked the headliner in that area, took it apart again and laid it out for reassembly. Then I installed the chrome with sealer (I used DAP white MONO Silicone PRO), then painted the seal rail grooves and the side window seals with Armor All and started the installation of the side window, rear corner first.  The stiff spatulas really did work as recommended by those here who have done it before.  The more Armor All, the better.  That last "POP" as the 8 or 10 inch long straight part of the seal at the end of the arc leading to the "C" pillar snapped over the seal rail inside edge was both terrifying and satisfying.  Both quarter windows went equally well, taking less than 3 hours each, including the chrome.  For the tiny seal lips that overlap the outer and inner chrome, I used a "dulled" dental hygienist dental pick instead of pre-installed string to "plow" the rubber lip out of the seal groove and guide it over the chrome edge.  It reminded me of turning soil with a plow on the farm when I was young.  I'm no good with string dangling everywhere anyway.

Another question that had been left unanswered was about the "skinny" reveal moulding for the short side of the quarter window at the "C" pillar that is supposed to be trapped by the inner chrome rail of the "C" pillar.  In the end, I cut to approximate length the original fat reveal mouldings that I removed for restoration of the hardtop.  They were still in good shape.  I hand fitted them to the "C" pillar with the inner chrome rail.  They were not too "fat" so I carefully trimmed the ends to butt against the other seals at the ends and installed them on both "C" pillars.  They worked like a charm.  I do not understand why Mercedes designed unique skinny reveal mouldings for the "C" pillars when the "fat" ones worked so well in both locations.

Here is the technique that I used to install the "fat" reveal moulding.  I lubed it and the gap between the window seal and the seal rail groove well with Armor All, then lubed the reveal moulding after trimming the pointed end for the corner.  I snapped about two inches of the end of the reveal moulding into its gap about three inches from the corner.  I then pushed the reveal moulding (like pushing a rope), sliding it in the lubricated groove to the end of the gap in the rear corner of the window opening.  When I was happy that it was as far as it was going to go into the corner, I used a small rubber hammer against the reveal moulding where it entered the gap and struck it with a small metal hammer, keeping the metal away from the glass.  I was able to very quickly and easily insert the reveal moulding into the gap about one inch at a time by using the rubber hammer head against the rubber reveal moulding.  My thumbs (still unused) never got sore.  I've added a few photos, taken after finishing the windows to show what I meant in the above statements.
Because I'm using one computer to send this email and a different one (iPad) to take the photos, I'll send the photos in a few minutes in my next post.
Tom Kizer



« Last Edit: August 23, 2021, 21:45:51 by Tomnistuff »
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

Tomnistuff

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2021, 20:27:11 »
Sorry, I can't seem to get photos posted correctly from my iPad.
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

col320ce

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2021, 03:02:52 »
I'll be doing my hard top in a week or so... If you need any photos let me know.
Col

1964 230SL
1965 250SE coupe
1993 320CE Sportline

Tomnistuff

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2021, 16:48:16 »
Some day, after 49 years of computer usage, I hope to be computer competent.  At least I was able to 1) take the needed photos with the iPad, 2) email them to myself and receive them in the Windows Desktop, 3) open them in Microsoft Picture Manager, 4) turn them right-side up, 5) crop them, 6) re-turn them right side up again, 7)save them and hopefully post them correctly here.  Apple is so stubburn when it comes to orienting photos.  I hate Apple almost as much as I hate Microsoft.
Son-of-a-gun!  The photos came out right.  I didn't post the reveal molding cross-section photo, since it's posted earlier in this thread and I was limited to 4 in a single post.  I suppose it's obvious to everyone that the trapezoidal section of the reveal molding is the part that gets thumbed or hammered into the groove between the Qtr Window Seal and the inner lip of the rail groove.
Anyway, if anyone needs more photos, while I'm still working on the top, please ask for them and I will try to accommodate.
Good Luck!
Tom Kizer

« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 16:55:40 by Tomnistuff »
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

Tomnistuff

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2021, 17:07:32 »
Here goes again.  the I deleted the first photo by double posting the second photo some way.
Here is the first photo, hopefully right side up.
Tom Kizer
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)

Peter van Es

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2021, 12:19:36 »
Some day, after 49 years of computer usage, I hope to be computer competent.  At least I was able to 1) take the needed photos with the iPad, 2) email them to myself and receive them in the Windows Desktop, 3) open them in Microsoft Picture Manager, 4) turn them right-side up, 5) crop them, 6) re-turn them right side up again, 7)save them and hopefully post them correctly here.  Apple is so stubburn when it comes to orienting photos.  I hate Apple almost as much as I hate Microsoft.
Son-of-a-gun!  The photos came out right.

Tom, about a year ago I added functionality to the site allowing you to re-orient the photos the correct way up after posting them. See attached screen shot.
You basically go to "Modify" your posting, click on the "+" mark next to the attachments, and then you can rotate each individual attachment / picture so that they are the correct way up! Works on your iPad too!


1970 280SL. System Admin of the site. Please do not mail or PM me questions on Pagoda's... I'm not likely to know the answer.  Please post on the forum instead!

Tomnistuff

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Re: Quarter window reveal molding(s)
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2021, 15:20:20 »
Thanks, Peter.  I missed that change.  As I (personally) deteriorate in my abilities, it's nice to see improvements that compensate.

Tom Kizer
Apparently late 1966 230SL 4-spd manual (Italian Version)
Owned since 1987 and wrapping up a full rotisserie restoration/modernization.
Was: Papyrus White 717G with Turquoise MBtex 112 and Kinderseat
Is: Dark Blue 332G with Dark Blue Leather (5300, I think)