Author Topic: Twisted soft top frame (Read 2703 times)

John Livingston · « **on:** May 05, 2021, 14:38:58 »

I bought my '68 W113 in Germany, about 40 years ago. It had been sold in California originally, without a soft top. I had the seller locate a used soft top and frame as part of the deal. It has always had an issue where the driver's side would snap down into place, and look right, but the passenger's side would not fully straighten out. I'd hoped it was something to do with the fit of the fabric, and I rarely had the top up (it's always garaged), so I didn't do anything about it. I'm now in the process of going fully through the car, which includes installing a new canvas top. As you can see from the pictures, the top is now removed, and I still have the issue. I think the first photo does exaggerate the issue a bit, but it's definitely something I don't want to have be a problem with the new top. Is there any way for me to address this, or is this something I should ship off to a pro?

Thanks so much.

John

John Livingston · « **Reply #1 on:** May 05, 2021, 16:01:30 »

Replying to my own post:

I've come across the thread below, which seems to be related, but it doesn't explain why the driver's side will snap down, completely straight over the window area (or even will a degree or two past 180°), while the passenger side does not do that.

https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=109.0

I guess I could try stretching the new top's cable across the passenger's side to see if it solves the problem. I apologize if I'm overlooking tons of previous posts regarding this. My search terms never seem to be on target, and I'm a retired librarian, for heaven's sake!

John

GM · « **Reply #2 on:** May 05, 2021, 16:18:56 »

John,
I currently have the same issue on my passenger-side softtop frame.
I discovered that the bolt (and hole) going through that hinge point was stripped. Rather than attempt a Time-Sert or HeliCoil installation, for the time being I pushed some threads from a stranded copper cable into the hole with a new bolt and got some purchase on the thread. When I tightened it up the piece straightened out quite a bit, but I want to get a more permanent solution.
My recommendation is to resolve this before installing the canvas.
Hope this helps.

John Livingston · « **Reply #3 on:** May 05, 2021, 16:27:20 »

Thanks Gary. I'll take a look at that. I have tried stretching the new cable, rather tautly, across the passenger side That did not seem to resolve it. I tightened it a bit more, and that seemed, if anything, to make it worse.

wjsvb · « **Reply #4 on:** May 05, 2021, 18:52:49 »

PM sent.

GM · « **Reply #5 on:** May 05, 2021, 20:00:14 »

Jon - could you please send the PM to me too? I have the same issue.
Thanks,
Gary

Pawel66 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 05, 2021, 21:42:45 »

I was reporting this issue, called it creation of an "elbow". Could I receive a PM on this as well?

John Livingston · « **Reply #7 on:** May 06, 2021, 01:00:17 »

It was recommended that I contact the folks at SL-Tech regarding the issue. I've sent them some pics and a description. I'll let folks know what I hear back.

John

Shvegel · « **Reply #8 on:** May 06, 2021, 10:08:01 »

John,
A couple things come to mind. The first is can the frame be forced straight? It looks like it might be binding at the joint and keeping it from going straight?

How long has it been since the hard top was on? Normally the hard top is installed and the door windows are adjusted to the hard top then the soft top is fitted and the soft top is adjusted to the windows. It looks to me like the top is too far forward on that side? moving the top back would allow more extension on the joint.

John Livingston · « **Reply #9 on:** May 06, 2021, 11:57:52 »

I pulled the soft top from the car several years ago, to have the car fully painted. I'm afraid it's been fairly low on my pyramid of projects, so neither hard top nor soft top have been on the car since then. My brother is considering coming up from Florida to help me get the car roadworthy, and I was hoping to get a new soft top installed before he arrives, just to show I've accomplished something. To give you some idea of my glacial pace: The shipping carton for the "new" top had a postmark of 4/10/04! It's been in the basement all those years, so I'm lucky there's no mold.

The soft top frame is bolted to a 2x4, which is itself bolted on one side to the garage wall, and on the other to a work table. This gives me full access all around. I can straightened the problematic side by hand, with a bit of effort. I don't feel any binding.

The adjustment you refer to is, I'm assuming, just shifting the frame back and forth with the mounting bolts loosened. With the frame out of the car, and the front end of the frame not secured, shifting the attachment points obviously won't have an impact on that kink. When it was in the car, I did try moving it back on that side to tighten things up. It didn't help.

John

John Livingston · « **Reply #10 on:** May 06, 2021, 13:33:15 »

I heard back from Gernold at SL-Tech. Here is his reply. I suspect that, to do this properly, I'll need to go this route. Now I just have to decide if I want UPS to truck it up to Maine, or to get in my sailboat and transport it myself! It would be fun to see his shop.

Guten Morgen Herr Livingston,

sorry to hear about your problems with the Top Assembly,

we have repaired over 300 of those Assemblies over the Years and what you experience there is a problem that I see on occasion, my guess is that the Frame was forced into the Compartment at one time or another and some of the Legs have been bent or stretched out of specs, that can be a little as a few Millimeters and not easy to see,

the first thing would be to disassemble the Frame and place it into my Jig for checking the Alignment of the Main Pivot, the Alignment is off on 9 out of 10 Frames !

after all that is done the kink in the two Legs over the Door Glass can be addressed,

a lot of time the kink is a result of the Top Assembly being pushed to far back in the Mounting,

I would try to move the right side Mounting as far forward as possible and see if that changes the kink,

unfortunately I do Top repairs only during the Winter Month, typically collecting as many Frames during the Summer as I can, this past Session involved 7 Assemblies,

a complete Top Assembly restoration including a new Canvas, Factory Seals, etc. runs about $ 4500 now,

attached a few pictures of what is involved during a Top Frame repair,

hope this is of help and looking forward to your reply,

best

Gernold

Thank you for your Interest in SL-TECH

Pawel66 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 06, 2021, 20:03:50 »

I am pretty sure this would work in my case - moving soft top forward. I just did not dare to do it after all the glass alignments... I need to try.

Merc_Girl · « **Reply #12 on:** June 16, 2021, 21:39:35 »

Quote from: John Livingston on May 06, 2021, 13:33:15

Now I just have to decide if I want UPS to truck it up to Maine, or to get in my sailboat and transport it myself! It would be fun to see his shop.

Sail boat sounds more fun!

I know that’s a lot of work, but also a lot of money!! I think reconditioned frames are around that price as well?

John Livingston · « **Reply #13 on:** June 16, 2021, 22:12:59 »

I haven't checked today's market price, but last I looked, I thought reconditioned frames were running about $7500, and that's without a top, so $4500 for mine, fixed and recovered, seems almost a bargain. If there are better prices in England, let me know. I'd love an excuse to try sailing across the pond!

mbz.280sl · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2021, 14:17:46 »

I don't have a solution to this problem but I have the same issue, with the right side of the soft top frame not being straight. I have heard from Gernold in the past and wonder if these shims are intended to be used to provide some adjustment of the frame.

Merc_Girl · « **Reply #15 on:** June 21, 2021, 22:29:50 »

Quote from: John Livingston on June 16, 2021, 22:12:59

I haven't checked today's market price, but last I looked, I thought reconditioned frames were running about $7500, and that's without a top, so $4500 for mine, fixed and recovered, seems almost a bargain. If there are better prices in England, let me know. I'd love an excuse to try sailing across the pond!

Just sail across the pond and say hi to your ‘cousins’ anyway 😂

I think someone put a link up a while ago about a frame on offer?

Merc_Girl · « **Reply #16 on:** June 21, 2021, 22:33:59 »

Quote from: John Livingston on June 16, 2021, 22:12:59

I haven't checked today's market price, but last I looked, I thought reconditioned frames were running about $7500, and that's without a top, so $4500 for mine, fixed and recovered, seems almost a bargain. If there are better prices in England, let me know. I'd love an excuse to try sailing across the pond!

Just looked and Pawel66 posted the link
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=33226.0

mbz.280sl · « **Reply #17 on:** June 22, 2021, 14:45:23 »

I got a response from Gernold about the shims, He said yes these shims are used to adjust the soft top frame. They are installed in the soft top well. The PO of my car had purchased these shims from Gernold, I don't know if they have any part number. There are two shims in my photo which are taped together and Gernold said these are for the 230SL soft top frame. The rest are all for the 280SL frame.

Pawel66 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 22, 2021, 18:14:26 »

I tried to chase part numbers for these, I failed and when I saw the prices at internet stores I just made a bunch of them myself...

https://www.sls-hh-shop.de/main/de/mercedes-230-280sl-w113/77-79-dach/77-a-softtopgestaenge-anbauteile

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Author Topic: Twisted soft top frame (Read 2703 times)

John Livingston

John Livingston

John Livingston

John Livingston

John Livingston

John Livingston

John Livingston