Author Topic: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal  (Read 5353 times)

amo

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W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« on: April 25, 2021, 13:43:51 »
Hello,

Firstly I would like to thank the community on the vast information available here from the Pagoda to the W11x chassis.
I have been a long time reader.

I would like to community support with some information about the low grill of the W111 3.5 and few 220SE from what I gather.

Is it possible to do a conversion on let say a regular 220SE to have the low grill look of the 280se 3.5?

Is the difference the low hood and grill or does it involve much more?

W112 grill is it similar to the 280SE 3.5 low grill?

Any information on this would be very appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

cfm65@me.com

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2021, 16:12:49 »
Hi Amo,
Google photos of the early 111 Coupes and Cabrios as well as a few V8 Coupe and Cabrio grilles. My guess is that you will find it is not necessarily a ‘low grille’ but a wider grille.
Regards
Chris
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top

PeterPortugal

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2021, 16:24:37 »
Some people do a conversion but the low grille parts are expensive (or impossible) to get hold of. You need the two wings (fenders), bonnet, grille, front panel which surrounds the radiator...maybe even a radiator too. Plus the later style bumpers with rubber inserts. Big bucks.

I am not 100% sure but in order to do it 100% correctly I think you also may have to change the inner wings too.
1963 220se Cabrio
1968 280se Coupe

wwheeler

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2021, 16:28:27 »
That would be a complicated conversion. The hood and front fenders are different. The location of the battery is different and because the hood is lower. The radiator support piece is also different. Who know what else. You would be better off buying a low grille car to begin with. Plus the value of the original low grille vehicle would be higher because it is not a conversion. The low grill sixes are not THAT much more than the high grille sixes. If you are talking about a V-8, that is a whole different ball game.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

Benz Dr.

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2021, 18:36:33 »
Inner fenders are the same part but everything else is mostly different. Best to find a real one.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

amo

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2021, 18:52:25 »
@Chris,

Just to be clear on this the Low Grill is the wider grill. Am I right in saying that?

@PeterPortugal
So way too complicated?

@wwheeler
So I am kind of getting the feeling there are 3 types of grill now.

1- High grill 6Cyl
2- Low Grill 6Cyl
3- Wide Grill V8

I would like to get a shell with almost everything in it except an engine and gearbox. I would like to start on a conversion project.

@Benz Dr.
So basically it's a complete new car that looks kind of the same. hahaha


Thanks everybody for your reply.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 18:57:41 by amo »

wwheeler

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2021, 22:56:53 »
Two grilles - High grille and low grille.

High grille - 6 cylinder engines only and up to mid 1969.
Low grille - Grille is wider and lower and the tops of the fenders are lower. Hence, different front fenders. Done because of US regulations for pedestrian safety regarding heights of the front of cars. This change was in mid 1969 until 1971. This could have been EITHER a 6 cylinder or the 3.5 V-8. But the grilles are the same regardless of the engine. 6 Cylinder low grilles are slightly more valuable than their high grille cousins. V-8 cars much more valuable.

When Dr. Benz and I say there are many changes, that is putting it mildly. As another example, the fuse box for the high grille is in the engine bay where as the fuse box for the low grille is inside the cabin. Horns are even different. Why Mercedes kept the W111 designation for the low grille model with a V-8 is anybody guess. It was a mistake and not consistent with their philosophy up to that point.   
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

PeterPortugal

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2021, 15:03:43 »
Well , well.....if the inner wings are identical I am almost there for a "conversion kit".

I have two fenders, a hood and a grille. I would need the radiator surround and the front cross member (which is also different).

The cross member is still available (and relatively cheap)

Anybody got a radiator surround for a 69-71 W111 Coupe / cabriolet lying around doing nothing?

I might think about "restomodding" my forlorn 68 Coupe which has more holes than steel.
1963 220se Cabrio
1968 280se Coupe

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1963 220se Cabrio
1968 280se Coupe

doitwright

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2021, 16:47:16 »
Just this past weekend I attended a Chicago MBCA event at a prominent long time MB dealer where Bill Knauz gave the background stories of his collection. Included, side by side, were a W111 3.5 Coupe, W108 280S, and a W111 Cabriolet 3.5 with original paint. The attached photo shows the differences between low/high grille.

Other cars in his collection included a W113 w/16,000 original miles, an unrestored 300SL Gullwing and 300SL Roadster.
Frank Koronkiewicz
Willowbrook, Illinois

1970 280SL Originally Light Ivory - Now Anthracite Gray Metallic

wwheeler

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2021, 17:36:03 »
Peter, don't forget about the battery. It must move else will hit the underside of the hood.

I am not sure what grille the W108 is. Maybe a hybrid between the high and low grill. I do know that none of the W108 front sheet metal is interchangeable with either W111 models. So probably is different yet.

Attached is about as good of a low to high grille comparison picture as you will get. This was two years ago at my car show in the Fall. My '68 high grille next to a '71 low grille. I even think the headlight surrounds are different. They look quite a bit shorter to me.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

PeterPortugal

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2021, 20:07:11 »
Hi Wallace,

I have had a look at a few for sale and I am not sure the 6 cylinder version of the low grille is any different to yours. The V8 version has the battery on the other side of the engine bay so it's very different.

I guess you are making the assumption that if I am resto-modding I should be shoehorning a great, big V8 lump in there. Not a bad idea .....

Regards

Peter
1963 220se Cabrio
1968 280se Coupe

wwheeler

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2021, 03:06:05 »
I guess my assumption was that if you were going to the trouble and expense of changing a high grille car to a low grille, you would install a V-8. The prices for a original low grille six and a high grille six are not that much different as I stated earlier. I would bet that a retro low grille six would be no different than an original high grille six.

But the car is yours and you are suppose to enjoy it. I have installed several 250SE parts in my 280SE because I enjoy that. The value of the car isn’t everything!
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

Benz Dr.

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2021, 05:26:55 »
I guess my assumption was that if you were going to the trouble and expense of changing a high grille car to a low grille, you would install a V-8. The prices for an original low grille six and a high grille six are not that much different as I stated earlier. I would bet that a retro low grille six would be no different than an original high grille six.

But the car is yours and you are supposed to enjoy it. I have installed several 250SE parts in my 280SE because I enjoy that. The value of the car isn’t everything!

I bet you changed the binnacle. The veneer on those things is amazing.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2021, 14:28:54 by Benz Dr. »
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

cfm65@me.com

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2021, 05:56:40 »
Hi Guys,
Re, my reply#1
Please accept my apology for my ignorance, re the low grille Coupe and Cabrio.
Regards
Chris
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top

wwheeler

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2021, 15:21:37 »
Dr. Benz,

Why yes I did change the binnacle and don’t regret it for a minute. You have to change the upper dash pads as well. A real shame they changed it to leather. I also have changed:

heater levers to chrome, door panels to earlier “euro” style one piece armrest/door pocket, rear view mirror to earlier chrome style, change the windshield wipers from satin to chrome and will eventually change the satin chrome interior trim to bright chrome. Yeah should have bought a 250SE, but it is too late now. All of this is reversible BTW and I have the original parts.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

amo

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Re: W111 Coupe low Grill vs Normal
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2021, 12:38:00 »
@cfm65@me.com
We are all here to learn something so its all good brother.

Any body know where to find a decent low grill project car to start with.
I would like it to be complete with the  interior to be in decent shape and don't mind if the engine and gearbox is missing.

I looked at eBay and BAT and they all seem like a shame to start a project on.

Your guidance is appreciated.

Thanks