Author Topic: Sacrilege  (Read 1208 times)

Merc_Girl

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Sacrilege
« on: March 01, 2021, 22:04:43 »
So
I know it’s probably of the upmost sacrilege to even consider this, and certainly not thinking of anytime soon. I’m just thinking of my latter years and thinking that perhaps a manual may be hard to use.

My question therefore is, is there a ‘modern’ automatic gearbox that could be installed in a pagoda? I saw somewhere on the forum something about the transmission tunnel is too narrow to accommodate a modern auto gearbox?

Just pondering ...........

Any ideas?

Ta

Katie
230SL

Peter

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2021, 22:17:44 »
Hi Katie,

You could consider a traditional, old fashion Pagoda automatic.
I must say it’s very good.

^Peter

Mike Hughes

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2021, 04:37:33 »
My dad still drives a manual car at age 93.
- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
  1966 230SL Auto P/S
  Havana Brown (408)
  Light Beige (181)
  Cream M-B Tex (121)

ja17

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2021, 05:40:24 »
Katie, big problems with a 230Sl engine converting since the crankshaft and flywheel would need to be changed or re-worked. These assemblies are "counter-balanced" on these engines and final balancing is done with the front counter weight, flywheel and crankshaft assembled and then balanced. Each component is counter-balanced to the other to form a balanced assembly. After balancing is finished you could install a pagoda automatic transmission. You would still need a lot of parts and work to complete the job. A front drive shaft, flywheel, torque converter, shifter, some wiring work and a lot more bits and pieces are some of the parts involved. In most cases it is not worth it, unless you have access to a complete parts car (automatic) with all the bits. You most likely are better to find an automatic pagoda instead. Nice article on you and the car in Pagoda World by the way. I share your background as an Industrial Designer by profession. Of coarse my other profession is Mercedes automobiles.  ;)
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

MikeSimon

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2021, 13:32:32 »
Somewhere, don't remember where , just recently, I read about a pagoda with a ZF Automatic???

I found it. It was in Gary's link he posted about the auction of Natalie Wood's 250SL:

https://www.auctionreport.com/natalie-woods-mercedes-roadster-up-for-auction-at-profiles-in-history/
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 13:50:32 by MikeSimon »
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

Mike Hughes

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2021, 14:08:48 »
. . . in other words, a slightly ignorant copy writer dressing up a celebrity vehicle article with terminology that may or may not actually be accurate, but sounds authoritative . . .
- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
  1966 230SL Auto P/S
  Havana Brown (408)
  Light Beige (181)
  Cream M-B Tex (121)

Merc_Girl

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2021, 21:03:56 »
Thanks Joe about your kind comments about my article, bit nervous about writing it!!

Anyway, bottom line seems to be, don’t bother

I will attempt to start developing my leg muscles so that in older age I will have legs like a body builder so manual won’t be the worst of my problems 🤣🤣

230SL

Garry

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2021, 21:36:26 »
I had a similar problem where Kate my wife had terrible difficulty driving my 280sl 5 speed so I somewhat reluctantly decided to sell it and purchase a 230sl auto. 
With the price difference i was able to have a full engine bay rebuild and some change left over.
Love my 230sl and all the extra chrome bling and have no regrets.  I use it a lot in the manual mode, Kate likes the auto and we both drive it now.


Garry
Garry Marks
Melbourne/ Kyneton, Australia
1965 MB 230SL Auto RHD Lt Blue 334G, Top 350H, 213 Leather, Tourist Delivery
2005 MB A200
2008 MB SLK 55 AMG
2016 VW T6 4x4 pop top Camper
2021 Volvo XC40 Electric Recharge, on order.

Merc_Girl

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2021, 22:36:36 »
I had a similar problem where Kate my wife had terrible difficulty driving my 280sl 5 speed so I somewhat reluctantly decided to sell it and purchase a 230sl auto. 
With the price difference i was able to have a full engine bay rebuild and some change left over.
Love my 230sl and all the extra chrome bling and have no regrets.  I use it a lot in the manual mode, Kate likes the auto and we both drive it now.


Garry

Love the bling on my 230SL as well, and also the finesse of the details, ie interior door latch and the door mirrors. All, I feel, a little more elegant, but then again I’m probably bias 😉
230SL

Pinder

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2021, 22:54:50 »
I wonder if a trend in the future is to put in an electric powerplant. this would be automatic.
1970 280 SL  color is Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC.
1969 280 SL Green. 4 Speed manual with AC.
1968 Cadillac Eldorado (Daily driver)

Cees Klumper

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2021, 23:05:14 »
Also just maybe it's possible your clutch needs some attention. We have a couple of manual transmission cars and it depends on the state of things (naturally) how heavy they are to apply. Never driven a stick Pagoda so no idea how light or heavy they are supposed to be to operate.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic white
1972 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.3 rosso corsa
1971 Volkswagen 411 'squareback'
1968 Triumph Spitfire MK3 1.3 canary yellow
1973 Datsun 240Z (son's daily driver)
1990 Ford Bronco II 2WD colonial white

thelews

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2021, 01:07:56 »
Funny, I have several cars and I was thinking the Pagoda would probably be the last one I'd sell as I aged because it's so easy to drive (4 speed manual).
Enjoy some pictures at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8292359@N06/sets/72157603240571101/show/

John - Wisconsin
1967 Early 250 SL Red/Caviar, Manual #1543
1961 190 SL 23K miles
1964 Porsche 356
1970 Porsche 911E
1991 BMW 318is
1966 Jaguar XKE

neelyrc

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2021, 02:58:49 »
Katie,

A few of us have zoomed past the 80 mark (years not mph) and are still effortlessly shifting our 4 speed stick models. My guess is that I will be taken off the road for some other, as yet unknown, reason before I get to the point of not being able to deal with the stick shift. 

Practically speaking switching out the standard transmission for an automatic is a no-go and after becoming attached to your 230SL, I think it will be difficult for you to make a switch.  So, just keep on shifting.... or buy yourself a second Pagoda with an automatic box!
   
Ralph
USA
1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
1995 Jaguar XJS Convertible
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
Italy
2004 Toyota HiLux D4D Pickup
2008 BMW 330xd Futura Coupe' (E92)

Jordan

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2021, 15:31:30 »

I will attempt to start developing my leg muscles so that in older age I will have legs like a body builder so manual won’t be the worst of my problems 🤣🤣

Katie, it will not be your leg muscles you need to exercise but your knees.  If you have any farmer friends with utility tractors you can ask to exercise on those.  The clutch is used to stop forward and reverse motion if on level ground so you use the clutch a lot more than you would on a car.  Also more resistance so the knees get a good work out.
Marcus
66 230SL  Euro 4 speed

Pinder

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2021, 20:29:13 »
my 280SL is a stick shift and the clutch is very light. the main problem is having to constantly move the gear stick around town. I personally prefer auto also.
1970 280 SL  color is Ivory DB 670. 4 Speed manual shift no AC.
1969 280 SL Green. 4 Speed manual with AC.
1968 Cadillac Eldorado (Daily driver)

teahead

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2021, 21:39:09 »
Way less work to just sell your Pagode and get one w/an automatic.

If you have money galore, you can do a full transplant.

https://engineswapdepot.com/?p=12803

1970 280SL auto, AC - aka "Edelweiss"

Merc_Girl

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2021, 09:17:30 »
But I like my Pagoda! Don’t want a different car, plus Tommy Steele owned it!!
Can’t get much better than that 🤣🤣
230SL

cfm65@me.com

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2021, 10:46:40 »
Hi Katie,
I installed a 5 speed box in my 250SL auto. In the past 40 odd years, I have owned 4 automatic Pagodas.  I just loooove the 5 speed, should have done that years ago.

Anyway, you are welcome to the auto gearbox and all the associated parts needed. HOWEVER, I would not recommend the swap. I have no idea of the shipping costs from Cape Town to the UK.
Regards
Chris
Cape Town
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top

MikeSimon

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2021, 16:56:54 »
It is not just swapping the tranny to Automatic. You need to work on the engine too.
On some other applications, I have worked with changing the master and/or slave cylinder to achieve a lesser actuating effort. I don't know if there are other parts from other cars available to would make this possible. But 'stick.." and JoeA have worked on so many cars, they may know.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

thomas wright

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2021, 22:52:44 »
Hi Katie,
I know I am a bit late to this party but I recall seeing an episode of Car SOS  on Television and the car they restored was a manual change. The owner had a condition that affected the tendons in his feet and resulted in loss of strength to push down the pedels of the clutch and the brake so the team fitting a pair of off the shelf vacuum servo units and made a few bespoke brackets to secure them...job done.

I hope this is of some interest.

Tom


280SL 1969, auto,050,leather,soft/hard top

Shvegel

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Re: Sacrilege
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2021, 16:21:01 »
Getting back to your original question the transmission tunnel is narrow but more importantly it is far too short for a modern automatic.  The transmission that would have been supplied with your car is a shade less than 18 inches (457mm) long and it barely clears the enclosed portion of the driveshaft tunnel.  Most modern automatics are pushing 36 inches (914mm).  Even Mercedes in later years kept the same automatic transmission in the W113 when they switched to newer models in the sedans because the newer model transmissions wouldn't fit.