Author Topic: Chassis number  (Read 3247 times)

bclermont

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Chassis number
« on: September 01, 2020, 16:24:39 »
Hello,
I am a new member, from Belgium, and really pleased to join the Community of Pagoda lovers.
I own a 230 sl from 1624, imported in Belgium from Texas in early 90's.
I have some troubles with the chassis number to identify the real model when ordering parts, Indeed the chassis number starts in accordance with the standard 113.042 but then followed by 50xxxxx.
Does it mean Something for one of you?
All  the best
Bernard
Bernard

cfm65@me.com

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2020, 19:52:27 »
Hi Bernard,
Explanations of the VIN numbers of our cars are all over the web.
I don’t quite understand your statement, 230SL from 1624, they only started building them around 1963.
113 is obviously the Pagoda designation and 042 the 230SL, 043 the 250 SL and 044 the 280SL.
The 7th digit is 1 for LHD and 2 for RHD , the 8th is for manual and or auto. So a RHD 280SL Auto will be 113 044 22. The next 6 digits are the sequential chassis numbers.
Therefor the number, 113,042 is a 230SL BUT 50xxx does not make sense. This is not the Vin number or Chassis number. It could be a body number or a paint number.
Regards
Chris
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bclermont

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2020, 08:19:55 »
Thank you, sorry for the date it is of course 1964.
I agree the number should be 113.042.10 (LHD + manual gear) but the stamped number on the chassis frame under the air collector is 113.042.50xxxxx.
Bernard

Benz Dr.

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2020, 15:28:15 »
The 50 you are seeing is probably  20 because that's what it should be.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
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1967 250SL
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bclermont

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2020, 16:17:20 »
Thank you for the information and I double check the number stamped on the chassis and give wrong number  :-[ although it is not in line with the expected definition, the number is 113.042-050xxxxx. The car is a LHD with manual gear. Still do not understand why the 050 figures.
Bernard

cfm65@me.com

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2020, 16:33:24 »
Very strange.
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Jordan

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2020, 17:50:42 »
Maybe you could post a picture.
Marcus
66 230SL  Euro 4 speed

MikeSimon

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2020, 13:06:58 »
I had it happen that vintage cars from certain US states have paperwork showing unusual VIN numbers. That was mostly because the system in the respective registration offices was not able to cope with some formats. The only time a stamped-in-the-chassis number was odd was when there was something 'fishy" going on with the car.
I am not saying that this is the case here, but I am always very careful with cars being shipped from one country to the other. It is a great market for scammers, thieves and other low-lifes who deal in dubious and illegal activities.
You need to check: Is the stamped number in the proper location. If so, does it show signs of tampering.
                            Is there another place with the VIN number on the car. There should be a metal plate showing the same number
                            What number does the paperwork show.
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bclermont

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2020, 15:37:42 »
Thank you for your comments.
The VIN number is stamped at the right place as assessed by the Homologation Officer of Mercedes-Benz importer for Belgium who saw the car.
I have also contacted the Mercedes-Benz Classic Center who has just answered and 50 should be for car shipped in Knocked down kit. I have never heard and found documentation related to that for Pagoda.
You are right with the registration offices, as the paperwork (issued in 1991) mentions 11350-----
At least I enjoyed refurbushing and now driving the car and I do not have the same administrative problem with my other cars (BMW 2002 and Beetle convertible)  ;)
Bernard

Pawel66

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2020, 16:26:53 »
That would be a very interesting new learning. Thank you for sharing.
Pawel

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Jordan

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2020, 23:08:01 »
Wow, first I have heard of a Pagoda being shipped in a knocked down state.  Very interesting.  Can you post pictures of the VIN plate as well as the data plate on the drivers side of the engine bay (or the data card if you have it).  You can block out any info you don't want anyone else seeing. 

Where was the cars initial destination?  I assume a country that had a high importation tax on foreign cars.  This would be on the data card or the data plate.  Do you have any other information on the cars history?
Marcus
66 230SL  Euro 4 speed

Pawel66

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2020, 08:24:05 »
No customs duty for car parts and high customs duty for a car? I am really puzzled what/why was it...
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

Cees Klumper

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2020, 11:44:13 »
Those were the tax rules at the time (and probably still today) in some countries. Complete cars = duty due, parts = no duty. Simple rule, unintended consequences. The origin of some kit car brands.
Cees Klumper
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JamesL

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2020, 12:26:52 »
That's the origins of the Lotus/Caterham 7 and many of the early Lotii were shipped as kits

I wonder what "stripped down" looked like in this case though to get through at a reduced tax rate (if that's the reason)
James L
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Jonny B

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2020, 15:47:53 »
I believe South Africa had rules to that effect. For some reason (as others have stated - who knows why) a car as a kit/pieces was taxed differently.

Here is an article about it - still being done, but it does not mention the tax issues
https://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSite/en/instance/ko/More-than-700000-truck-kits-shipped-for-assembly-to-locations-worldwide-since-1966-Assembly-Kits-from-Woerth-Support-Global-Growth-of-Mercedes-Benz-Trucks-for-50-Year.xhtml?oid=10208502

Also as the others have said, I never heard of it for a Pagoda, most interesting about the chassis number 50

Here is an interesting note about the issue with tax and kit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

And yes, you are reading that correctly - "Chicken Tax" if you read through the relatively short wiki article, you will see how it led to the kit approach for the US.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 15:56:31 by Jonny B »
Jonny B
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mrfatboy

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2020, 16:12:35 »
Bizarre coincidence. I just saw this video on “chicken tax” just an hour before reading this post 🤣

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMJSQXk1o/
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Benz Dr.

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2020, 21:17:19 »
A handful of 190SL's were shipped to Mexico in knocked-down form. Very rare cars today.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

mrfatboy

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2020, 21:23:34 »
Here in San Diego many cars are shipped to Mexico in “knocked down” form every day🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
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Jordan

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Re: Chassis number
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2020, 21:57:28 »
Volvo did this in the early '60's here in Canada.  They set up an assembly plant in Halifax and then sent kits from Sweden to be assembled here in Canada, using local parts where they could.  They were then labelled as made in Canada and sold throughout North America, just to bypass the importation tariffs.

Studebaker also did this when they still existed.  Kits were put together here in the Hamilton plant and sent out to numerous countries.  I just never thought MB ever did this.  South Africa makes sense as I believe they are the only country outside Germany that had an MB assembly plant in the past.
Marcus
66 230SL  Euro 4 speed