Author Topic: play at tach drive ?????  (Read 31095 times)

erickmarciano

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Re: play at tach drive ?????
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2005, 17:27:40 »
took me a long time to get it back together , now I have no clearance with the shim but the engine runs great with no noise , can I leave it like this? the shim I used is brass with new thrust piece . I really don't want to take it apart unless I need to
what do you think
thnaks

My car is at last restored as of today
thank you all for all your help

1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa
1994 E500 W124
1971 280sl
1989 Porsche 930 coupe
1988 e30 m3
2001 ducati mh900
2006 ps1000
1962 Vespa GS160

ja17

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Re: play at tach drive ?????
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2005, 18:30:53 »
Hello Erick,
You should be ok. I would check it again after a few thousand miles. It will probably loosen up a bit.

Those brass injector seal make good shims.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
« Last Edit: March 17, 2005, 18:31:19 by ja17 »
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

erickmarciano

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Re: play at tach drive ?????
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2005, 19:25:30 »
by the way the new injector washers i ordered are steel not brass i had an old one
1994 E500 W124
1971 280sl
1989 Porsche 930 coupe
1988 e30 m3
2001 ducati mh900
2006 ps1000
1962 Vespa GS160

rwmastel

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Re: play at tach drive ?????
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2005, 22:45:14 »
quote:
Originally posted by erickmarciano

....the shim I used is brass with new thrust piece.
Should a shim be required with a new thrust piece?

Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both  tops
1994 E420
Rodd

Did you search the forum before asking?
2017 C43 AMG
2006 Wrangler Rubicon
1966 230SL

erickmarciano

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Re: play at tach drive ?????
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2005, 07:23:06 »
mine did

1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa
1994 E500 W124
1971 280sl
1989 Porsche 930 coupe
1988 e30 m3
2001 ducati mh900
2006 ps1000
1962 Vespa GS160

mbzse

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Re: play at tach drive ?????
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2005, 14:20:10 »
quote:
Originally posted by joe alexander
The Verticle timing gear is also refered to as the "drivesahft for the oil pump and tachometer" in the BBB. The specified clearance for endplay is very small (0.1mm - 0.25mm) or (0.004" to 0.010").
.../...
The thrust piece or "aluiminum/bronze bushing" wears and allows this verticle timing gear to move upward during engine operation.

I am replacing these cross drive shafts on my car. You buy them as a pair, part No 130 050 0406. It seems M-B have identified the wear problem described by several of you in this thread, and the vertical shaft has been re-designed. See attached photo. With the new shafts you also need a new Tacho drive bushing (thrust piece). Part number for the new bushing is A615 180 0344.

On the re-designed parts, the contact (wear) area is much larger, and is lubricated more effectively.

Download Attachment: Drive_shaftM129_2.jpg
57.66 KB

/Hans in Stockholm
« Last Edit: March 29, 2005, 23:09:03 by mbzse »
/Hans S

ja17

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Re: play at tach drive ?????
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2005, 04:30:11 »
Hans,
Thanks for the new information, this is an important subject. I susupect the cost on these expensive  new gear sets has risen also?

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

jeffc280sl

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Re: play at tach drive ?????
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2005, 18:19:30 »
Had a small oil leak at the end of the tach cable on the engine.  Read this thread and thought I would check the end play on the tach cable drive.  Play was in the 2 mm range.    I'm looking on the McMaster site for a suitable metric shim. I plan to buy several thicknesses so I can achieve the correct play tolerance.   While I'm at in this area I plan to replace the seal in the fitting, it's a bit loose and add an o ring (which is missing).  Both of these should help with the small oil leak and the shim is a good preventative measure.  The bronze base section on the thrust piece is slightly worn so I'll make sure to smooth it out before reassembly.

I can't thank everyone enough for their contribution on this topic. It made the project very straight forward.

Jeff C.
1970 280SL 4-speed

enochbell

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Re: play at tach drive ?????
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2005, 15:43:31 »
Regarding the tach gear thrust bushing and vertical gear play: I took up most of the play (still have 1.5mm) with the only thing I had that fit properly:an aluminum washer.  Is there a problem driving the car for about a week while I wait on a new bushing?  I just could not bear to put the thing back together with the slop I had.

Thanks for your opinion,

Greg

'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon

ja17

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Re: play at tach drive ?????
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2005, 15:53:02 »
Hello Greg,
It should be just fine.

Joe

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

A Dalton

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Re: play at tach drive ?????
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2005, 18:55:23 »
If one wants to use an aluminum shim and have a single, renewed thrust piece, you can press the bronze bushing out of the casing and install the proper alum shim under the bushing and re-assemble the unit as one piece. . reface the bronze and measure the total piece length to be 2.475" [ the shim can be predetermined doing the math before inserting the shim].

Longtooth

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Re: play at tach drive ?????
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2006, 05:36:58 »
The procedure from the BBB, Modification Feb '68, for
Removal and installation of drive shaft for oil pump -- this is also refered to in this thread as the 'vertical drive'.  it is the drive shaft for both the oil pump and the revolution counter ... tach.  The 'horizontal drive' is referred to in the BBB as the idling gear shaft for injection pump--- refer to BBB Section 18-6/5 ==> Section 18-6, page 5, is:

There's also a section 18-6/3 which admonishes from using "bath nitrided" and non-bath nitrided shafts with one another rather than buying them in a set.  There was a change sometime prior to Feb '68 which modified the two shafts to be bath nitride coated to improve the wear properties.  The statement in the BBB is bolded and states
 
quote:
If only one of the previous pattern shafts [the pre-nitride coated ones] is replaced by a new one [a bath nitride coated one], the different wearing properties cause further damage after short mileage.


How do you tell the difference between the old (pre-nitride coated) and new (bath nitride coated) shafts?  Easy... the bath nitrided shafts have a turned slot 1 mm wideon them ... but where is this turned slot to be found?  

On the Idling gear shaft (horizontal injection pump drive shaft) it's in the narrow section near large end of the shaft (I'll call the large end, the 'bottom' end), the narrowing of the shaft just below the gear and above the bottom bearing surface.  

On the drive shaft for the oil pump, it's also found at the bottom end (literally) in the section just below a concave groove near the bottom of the shaft.

Since my BBB version in this section is a modification thru Feb '68, there's probably been an additional modification since then because the PN's listed for these shafts are the ones that somebody else has listed (later on this thread) as having been replaced by other PN's.  However, if replacing only one (for example the oil pump shaft), be sure that the one you're replacing has the groove in it that identifies it as a bath nitrided one... since it's likely, perhaps, and therefore, that the horizontal shaft buried down below will therefore also likely be a bath nitided one.... and you won't be able to purchase a new non-bath nitrided one if the oil pump shaft doesn't have the 1 mm wide slot in it at the location described above.

[my comments in brackets and italized]

Removal:
1. Back off screw plug [that's the 22mm screw on top] about 2 turns, unscrew hexagon screw with spigot [that's the 10 mm screw on  the side], and by inserting a screwdriver between the screw plug [22 mm plug] and the cover disk [cover disk is first item directly beneith  the screw plug], and push out the pressure piece upward. [pressure piece is the the large cylinderically thick bronze/aluminum piece, referred to in previous posts on this thread as "bushing" ]

Note: [note refers to an alternate method of extracting the pressure piece by using a special tool you fabricate by tapping and drilling another AM26 x 1.5 screw plug with an M8 thread.... ]

2. Extract helical gear/drive shaft from oil pump.

3. Completely unscrew the screw plug from the pressure piece and remove the cover disk and the rubber ring. [no mention of a felt thingy, nor one shown in the cross section diagram]

Checking:
4. Check the helical gear/drive shafter and bearing bushes [top and bottom bearing surfaces on the "bushing" into which the helical gear/drive fits] for wear and replace if necessary. [lotsa help that is ... define necessary].

Installation:
5. Fit helical gear/drive shaft and pressure piece ["bushing"] and tighten by means of hexagon screw with spigot [the 10 mm screw]. Check end play (0.1 - 0.25 mm) [0.004 - 0.010 inches] of helical gear.

Note: If end play is too small or excessive, remove pressure piece again.  If end play is too small, turn the face of the bearing bushing by a suitable amount on a lathe [good luck in your garage on this one... hence the suggested method by lapping on flat glass plate] and install pressure piece again. If play is excessive, press the bearing bushing out of the pressure piece and correct end play of the helical gear by inserting the appropriate washers between the bearing bushing and pressure piece.  Press bearing bushing with washer into the pressure piece and tighten he hexagon screw with spigot [the 10 mm screw].  Check end play of helical gear again.

6. Place Rubber ring and cover disk in position and tighten screw plug.

[That's all there is to it... makes it sound simple, huh?]

Longtooth
67 250SL US #113-043-10-002163
'02 SL500 Sport
« Last Edit: August 12, 2006, 06:21:02 by Longtooth »

ja17

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Re: play at tach drive ?????
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2006, 06:41:26 »
Hello Longtooth,

Nice bit of additional information. This may indicate that switching some single gears may not be quite as dangerous as long as they are of the same type and composition? Owners may want to make the checking of the "timing gear play"   part of a major tune up every few years. I suspect that, as the vertical timing gear moves further out of position from bushing wear,  the wear rate of the gears increase.

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback