Author Topic: W111 carpet types  (Read 9514 times)

col320ce

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W111 carpet types
« on: April 10, 2020, 14:46:41 »
What is the correct carpet type for my 65 250se coupe? I have a choice of velour or wilton wool.
If I have cognac leather seats, should the binding be the same on the carpet ie leather in cognac?
Thanks for any help!
Col

1964 230SL
1965 250SE coupe
1993 320CE Sportline

Aaron h

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2020, 15:29:43 »
None of those are correct, but you'll have to choose one of them anyway.  Originally, your car had a low pile two tone wool carpeting.....and NOT wilton wool.  (see picture below).  Unfortunately, the original type is no longer made.  So you'll have to buy a two tone velour in Cognac. 

The binding was vinyl, not leather, and would have been a complementary color to the leather and carpeting. 

Aaron h

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2020, 15:31:05 »
Carpet example.

col320ce

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2020, 23:37:20 »
Thanks for the explanation.  In don't have any original carpet so I don't know what the colour should have been. I assume it was dark brown as that was the colour combination in the 113 (if I understand this correctly).  Did the w111 have the same "standard" colour combos?  My data card just gives the cognac leather seat colour.
Col

1964 230SL
1965 250SE coupe
1993 320CE Sportline

wwheeler

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2020, 02:14:38 »
The two tone carpet I see now has a darker color for the speckle color. Seems like was originally a dark red or maroon and is now brownish. I guess you get what you can. I agree, the type that is available now is not the same as original and still have that in my car.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

austinado16

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2020, 02:57:33 »
Carpeting is on my short list as well.  Below are the 3 sample that I received from World Upholstery & Trim, for your reference.  I'm not sure I'll use what they sell (comes as a kit, pre-sewn at about $1,200 and change for the speckled Cognac).

@AaronH:  Where/who is your sample from?

Aaron h

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2020, 07:28:00 »
Thanks for the explanation.  In don't have any original carpet so I don't know what the colour should have been. I assume it was dark brown as that was the colour combination in the 113 (if I understand this correctly).  Did the w111 have the same "standard" colour combos?  My data card just gives the cognac leather seat colour.

No, the W111 was different.  The same colors were offered across the board, but a Pagoda from 1965/1966 would have had square weave, (Bouclee`) carpeting.  The interior trim code on your data card tells us MUCH more than the leather color on the seat.  Would you mind posting a picture of your data card, or at least telling us the interior trim code? 

col320ce

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2020, 09:39:21 »
Hi Aaron
Here is the data card:
This I believe is the trim code 216 401
Col

1964 230SL
1965 250SE coupe
1993 320CE Sportline

Aaron h

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2020, 13:10:43 »
Ok, so the interior trim code is just 216.  The 401 is an option code that deciphers to singe seats up front.  Before we get into the interior trim code, here is a deciphering of the option codes on your cars data card for for fun.

717  Papyrus white paint work
216 Cognac leather interior
401 Single seats up front
423 Power steering with Mercedes automatic transmission, column shift
461 Instrumentation in English
471 Special export version for bad road conditions with oil bath type air cleaner. ...this means stiffer springs are used that make the car sit higher than it should,
       and the air filter being the oil bath type means you only have to periodically clean the filter element (soak in gasoline), housing, and refill with clean oil to
       the mark on the air filter housing.
516 Becker Grand Prix Radio set, monaural.  (one speaker)
525 Shipped with 1kg of single stage paint
531 Electric/Automatic antenna
540 Seat adapter between the front seats (This cushion would have been covered in Cognac leather, and would be where the wood trey would usually be
      between the seats)
587 Folding arm rest on front seat
619 Halogen lighting units with bright light/dimmed light/fog light and headlamps and fog lamps and additional bright light, amber; asymmetrical headlamps for
      Left Hand Drive traffic, and rear blinker lamps in orange for Australia, Italy, and Great Britain.
668 Mode of packing VE II, and with styropor bumper rails. ( this is how the car was packed for shipping)


Under the heading "Wenig Gewunscht" (not commonly asked for options) you have code 243, which is "elimination of battery".  This means that the car was either to be shipped without a battery, or the battery was not placed upon special request due to subsequent modifications that were to be done to the car causing the location of the battery to be determined at a later time.  Likely the former.

With the completion date of December 23, 1965, the car should be titled and registered as a 1966, as the car would not have arrived in Australia until months later in 1966.

Ok, so interior trim code 216.  This tells us quite a bit!  In the picture below, you'll notice under column 216 that there are rows of funny German words with numbers.  The words are the color, and the numbers are the color code for the color.  Each row is explained below

-In the first row you see 1505 Cognac.  This is the leather color and the color code for the Cognac leather.  Bear in mind color codes and trim codes are not the same!

 -In the second row you see D 32 and Creme`.  This is the color code and color name for the headliner material and sun visors.

-In the third row you see 6419 Dunkel Beige Melliert.  This is the color code and color name for your wool carpeting, which is Mottled Dark Beige. (dark beige with darker colored flecking in the carpeting.....hence, 'Two tone")

-In the fourth row you see 2445 D braun.  This is the color code and color name for the ribbed rubber entrance rail coverings, which are to be dark brown.

-In the fifth row you see Macassar.  This is the species of wood normally paired with a Cognac interior....Macassar Ebony to be exact. Because there are no other option codes under the "Wenig Gewunscht" area would mean that the car should have Macassar Ebony on the dash and around the windshield. Sometimes people would specifically request a different species of wood instead of what Mercedes recommended.

-In the sixth and last row you see D 12 Graubeige.  This is the color code and color name of the seat webbing strap color if the car had seat belts.  Grey beige.

So you now know how your car left the factory.  Though, if the original slim faced Becker Grand Prix is missing that will be a costly part to procure, but there are plenty of them out there.  :)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 13:54:57 by Aaron h »

Aaron h

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2020, 13:20:41 »
Carpeting is on my short list as well.  Below are the 3 sample that I received from World Upholstery & Trim, for your reference.  I'm not sure I'll use what they sell (comes as a kit, pre-sewn at about $1,200 and change for the speckled Cognac).

@AaronH:  Where/who is your sample from?

Todd, this is the same place I referred you to over on your own introductory post.  Putt Georgie LTD.  Go to the first page, and about three quarters of the way down in one of my comments you'll see a hyperlink that takes you to the website. 

col320ce

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2020, 13:36:53 »
Hi Aaron

That is an amazing summary!! Thank you so much.  The car does still have the original radio and it's working reasonably well.  I'll re cap it and it should be perfect after that (capacitors on order).  Someone has put speakers in the back (and the original still is in the front) so I'll wire it up as one in the front and 2 in the back. I've bought a modern electric aerial (2050) as the original is long gone sadly.

Thanks again for an amazing answer
Col

1964 230SL
1965 250SE coupe
1993 320CE Sportline

Aaron h

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2020, 13:52:38 »
The monaural radios can only drive two speakers.  I mean....your current set up will work, but the sound will be weak. 

col320ce

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2020, 13:58:55 »
OK... I'll do a test with just the front and just the back speakers and see which sounds better.
Col

1964 230SL
1965 250SE coupe
1993 320CE Sportline

wwheeler

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2020, 18:13:54 »
The carpet from Putt Georgie looks like the right colors. I ended up with the carpet like the top piece from World. Not great but it will have to do now. :(

 
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

austinado16

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2020, 02:20:15 »
Thanks Aaron!  And the deciphering of the data card is fantastic!  Makes me want to spend money to order one from the Classics Center, since all of my car's documentation is long gone.

wwheeler

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2020, 02:38:12 »
Todd, If you get the info from the Classic Center, you can then turn it into https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=30464.msg221418#msg221418

 A member here takes your correct information and puts it on a PDF document that looks exactly like the cards your car came with. The copy you get from the Classic Center will be rough at best.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

Aaron h

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2020, 03:59:33 »
I want to take this opportunity to share some facts about the early two piece monaural units.  Many of you will already know this, but some may not.  I'll be covering this in my series of youtube videos when I finally publish them.  For now a picture will have to do. In the picture below you'll see the rear of the power supply/amplifier where the speaker(s) connect to.  Notice there are a total of 4 holes.  (what looks like a hold in the middle is actually a brass rivet).  The two holes on the bottom running horizontally with the number 5 in between them are where you connect ONE speaker.  If you want to connect TWO speakers you have to run two separate speaker plugs to the amplifier.  These two plugs will plug into the two vertical placed holes that say 2.5 in between them.  The "5" and "2.5" are the wattage output ratings.  When two speakers are used the output has to be split.  Hence, the 2.5.   

You can split the output the way Becker intended us to, or you can split the output aft of the 5 watt connection in the wiring.  However, splitting the 5 watt output three ways (1.66 watts to each speaker) will cause weak sound and an impedance mismatch if the speakers aren't rated to equal the total ohms the radio itself is capable of driving/overcoming.  The weak sound isn't harmful, but if the impedance mismatch can cause damage to the PNP AD 150 Germanium output transistors......seemingly unobtanium as of late.  Though, equivalents are out there, but they're not an exact match. And it won't happen immediately.  It'll happen over an undetermined amount of time. 

All this to say just be careful when trying to hook up more of a load than the radio can drive.  In more simplistic terms, it's kind of like trying to use a 6V battery to start a car that needs a 12V battery in that the radio is trying to overcome a load that it can't handle. That's a really poor comparison, but it may get the point across to those that may not thoroughly understand much better than the technical explanation. 

austinado16

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2020, 22:51:42 »
Todd, If you get the info from the Classic Center, you can then turn it into https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=30464.msg221418#msg221418

 A member here takes your correct information and puts it on a PDF document that looks exactly like the cards your car came with. The copy you get from the Classic Center will be rough at best.

I had previously stumbled upon that thread, so thanks for reminding me and providing a link to it!

Aussiesven

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2022, 07:28:31 »
Ok, so the interior trim code is just 216.  The 401 is an option code that deciphers to singe seats up front.  Before we get into the interior trim code, here is a deciphering of the option codes on your cars data card for for fun.

717  Papyrus white paint work
216 Cognac leather interior
401 Single seats up front
423 Power steering with Mercedes automatic transmission, column shift
461 Instrumentation in English
471 Special export version for bad road conditions with oil bath type air cleaner. ...this means stiffer springs are used that make the car sit higher than it should,
       and the air filter being the oil bath type means you only have to periodically clean the filter element (soak in gasoline), housing, and refill with clean oil to
       the mark on the air filter housing.
516 Becker Grand Prix Radio set, monaural.  (one speaker)
525 Shipped with 1kg of single stage paint
531 Electric/Automatic antenna
540 Seat adapter between the front seats (This cushion would have been covered in Cognac leather, and would be where the wood trey would usually be
      between the seats)
587 Folding arm rest on front seat
619 Halogen lighting units with bright light/dimmed light/fog light and headlamps and fog lamps and additional bright light, amber; asymmetrical headlamps for
      Left Hand Drive traffic, and rear blinker lamps in orange for Australia, Italy, and Great Britain.
668 Mode of packing VE II, and with styropor bumper rails. ( this is how the car was packed for shipping)


Under the heading "Wenig Gewunscht" (not commonly asked for options) you have code 243, which is "elimination of battery".  This means that the car was either to be shipped without a battery, or the battery was not placed upon special request due to subsequent modifications that were to be done to the car causing the location of the battery to be determined at a later time.  Likely the former.

With the completion date of December 23, 1965, the car should be titled and registered as a 1966, as the car would not have arrived in Australia until months later in 1966.

Ok, so interior trim code 216.  This tells us quite a bit!  In the picture below, you'll notice under column 216 that there are rows of funny German words with numbers.  The words are the color, and the numbers are the color code for the color.  Each row is explained below

-In the first row you see 1505 Cognac.  This is the leather color and the color code for the Cognac leather.  Bear in mind color codes and trim codes are not the same!

 -In the second row you see D 32 and Creme`.  This is the color code and color name for the headliner material and sun visors.

-In the third row you see 6419 Dunkel Beige Melliert.  This is the color code and color name for your wool carpeting, which is Mottled Dark Beige. (dark beige with darker colored flecking in the carpeting.....hence, 'Two tone")

-In the fourth row you see 2445 D braun.  This is the color code and color name for the ribbed rubber entrance rail coverings, which are to be dark brown.

-In the fifth row you see Macassar.  This is the species of wood normally paired with a Cognac interior....Macassar Ebony to be exact. Because there are no other option codes under the "Wenig Gewunscht" area would mean that the car should have Macassar Ebony on the dash and around the windshield. Sometimes people would specifically request a different species of wood instead of what Mercedes recommended.

-In the sixth and last row you see D 12 Graubeige.  This is the color code and color name of the seat webbing strap color if the car had seat belts.  Grey beige.

So you now know how your car left the factory.  Though, if the original slim faced Becker Grand Prix is missing that will be a costly part to procure, but there are plenty of them out there.  :)

G’day guys. I know this post is 2 years old, but I am wondering whether anyone know the one item that Aaron overlooked in his excellent description of the colour codes above:

He accidentally skips over line 3 in the photo attached … what is it???

Line 1 is the leather colour code
2 is the headliner colour code

What is line 3???

Line 4 is the carpet colour
Line 5 the sill plate colour
Line 6 the wood type
Line 7 the seatbelt colour

My coupe has interior 214 and I am keen to find out what line 3 - 6415 dark beige refers to!   Anyone?

Sven

austinado16

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2022, 00:22:04 »
Todd, this is the same place I referred you to over on your own introductory post.  Putt Georgie LTD.  Go to the first page, and about three quarters of the way down in one of my comments you'll see a hyperlink that takes you to the website.

Link to the 2-tone carpet for anyone interested in the cognac color (like me):  http://www.aro2000.com/2_tone_velour_carpet.htm

austinado16

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2022, 00:12:52 »
I've received the 3 "cognac" colored carpet samples and wanted to post them in case it helps anyone decide, or speeds up the selection process.  It was very hard to get a photo that ACURATELY showed the colors, but I think these two photos represent the samples well.

The large piece is from GAHH in North Hollywood, CA.  They make a kit for you, at somewhere in the $1,200 range.  It appears to be very good quality.  I like it, and it looks great sitting in the car, but I think it might be too "cinnamon" and sort of too dark.

The upper small piece is from World Upholstery & Trim, also in CA.  Similar pricing for a kit.  I didn't like this one at all.  It just doesn't look "correct" or even "trying to be correct" to me.  If it were all that was available, that would be a different story.

The lower small piece is from Putt Georgi LTD in NY.   Putt doesn't make a kit, so you have to purchase the carpet and have that done.  This one is my favorite, and not surprising as it was recommended by AaronH, who I guess is no longer contributing here.  It has some reddish flecking in it.  There is no one left in my area, that I'd trust to make a kit, so I'm trying to talk someone that Putt recommended, into doing the job.  I really only need the 4 floor mats, and transmission tunnel piece made.  The remainder of the pieces I can cut and glue to the body, and they don't need any edge banding.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 00:20:48 by Todd »

wwheeler

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2022, 17:21:32 »
Monitor color can vary a lot, so hard to tell. I agree, the second color in the World piece looks too brown. The large piece from GAHH does look better. The second color on my original carpet is more red and less brown than what was available when I was looking. My kit came from German Auto Tops which GAHH owns now. Probably the same as what GAHH uses. The one from Putt looks too pale and not really attractive to me. Looks like their base carpet color is too light and should be a bit darker. The second accent color looks about right though on the Putt.     

The picture from Aaron is exactly what my original looks like and is soooo nice. I think the GAHH is close enough and will just have to do.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

austinado16

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2022, 18:05:20 »
I almost included the picture from the Putt website, which AaronH used, because it is much closer to what the sample looks like in person...just the right amount of color to go with the cognac leather, and that touch of red works really well.  The GAHH version is really nice, and I really like the color, but I think an entire floor full of it would be to overpowering to the leather and wood.....but I still think it would be an excellent choice.

UPDATE:  I set all 3 samples on the transmission tunnel, forward of the shift lever, and drove around in the sun, with the sunroof open.  I wanted to have a better idea of what they look like, sort of "out in the real world."

Observations:
-The Putt carpet sparkles from whatever the red is made out of.  I really don't like it.  It makes it look plastic and gives it a pink hue.  I was very shocked, because I was going to order it today.
-The GAHH looks really good in direct sunlight because it is "flat" and doesn't have any shine.  So it's just nice and stable, and shows it's colors well.  It still "feels" a bit too dark or maybe too rich to me.
-The World carpet actually looks pretty good in the direct sun.  It sort of loses it's "leopard speckle" look and just looks sort of vintage and good.

I wound up placing an order for the GAHH version at $1,400 and change, and it will take a couple weeks for them to get to me.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2022, 04:00:27 by Todd »

austinado16

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2022, 00:13:07 »
The GAHH kit arrived just 4 days after ordering it.  I set in the 6 easy pieces just to see how it looks installed, and will do the side rails, rear tunnels, and areas under the rear seat, this week.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2022, 01:09:18 by Todd »

Aussiesven

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Re: W111 carpet types
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2022, 00:23:16 »
That does look quite nice.  As you said: maybe a tad dark, but I think you will get used to it. 

I have been looking at GAHH as well for my W111 Coupe - mine has press studs on all four corners of each of the four floor mats.  Do GAHH offer the mats with studs as well, or would they need to be added later (not a big deal either…).