Author Topic: Stumble across- what am I looking at?  (Read 1567 times)

Shawnway

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Stumble across- what am I looking at?
« on: March 16, 2020, 02:50:50 »
Good day, I’ve run across a ‘69 280SL. I haven’t had a good chance get into the mechanical details but know it needs work. Body seems solid, looks like it was painted once, needs a lot of interior work. Can anyone tell me details based on the serial #?

Aaron h

  • Guest
Re: Stumble across- what am I looking at?
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2020, 05:28:30 »
It doesn't look like anything unusual......just a standard 280SL in what looks like 050 white with blue MB-TEx interior.  But it does have standard shift transmission, so that's a plus.  According the to the information below this one was made between May and June of 1969.  The last six digits of the VIN are pretty neat....011011....easy to remember. haha The picture you show of the top of the engine is only the firing order of the ignition system.  "Zündfolge" literally translates to ignition sequence/firing order.  It looks like a Euro model with the chrome horn ring, but a lot of people get rid of the U.S. matte chrome horn ring in favor of a chrome one, so that observation isn't entirely set in stone.  I'd definitely look at the undersides of it for rust first and foremost.  The cost of Carpet, wood, and seat work is nothing compared to buying a car with a lot of hidden rust. 

1969   January       007772
    February       008410
    March       009082
    April           009778
    May           010449
    June           011135
    July           011926
    August       012556
    September        013260
    October       013985
    November       014599
    December       015169

Shawnway

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Re: Stumble across- what am I looking at?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2020, 00:42:28 »
So it looks like this car is for sale. It is a euro version, spent 5 years in Germany and then exported to North America. Some oil leaks on the engine, seals maybe. Any idea of the value or best place to look?

Aaron h

  • Guest
Re: Stumble across- what am I looking at?
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2020, 20:58:41 »
That's a really complicated question to answer.  First and foremost it'll depend most on the condition of the car, both mechanically and cosmetically.  The complications of value arise when we talk about who is selling it as well as who is buying it.  For now, let's assume, hypothetically, that the car is solid, and runs and drives with only tired/needing serviced cosmetics and mechanics. 

If a dealer/cap flipper/auction house/consignment shop has is for sale, it's worth triple or quadruple more than the actual value.  A lot of people like/want these cars, and given the jaw dropping prices some sell for, dealers, flippers, auction houses, and consignment shops will take advantage of that. 

If it's a private sale between two private parties the sell price is usually acceptable and/or on par with actual worth.  It's then only a matter of what the buyer and seller agree upon, which is usually a looonngg way from prices we see elsewhere. 

Another fact to take into consideration is that there are many people who love a Pagoda and would love to have one.....probably more people than there are Pagodas available.  However, there are more even more people that wouldn't own/buy one due to price gouging (sale prices, parts, etc), difficulty in finding knowledgeable mechanics, lack of modern amenities that people are currently used to, and difficulty in making one a reliable daily driver.  This ends up leaving more of a supply of Pagodas than there is actual demand. 

Another issue regarding value is that when dealers, flippers, auction houses, and consignment shops sell/list these cars for ungodly amounts of money people see those price amounts and assume that's what they're worth.  Auction houses, dealers, flippers, and consignment shops are not the authority on value.  Granted, many people will overpay because they have the money and because they feel that particular car is worth what they paid for it, but none of that reflects the median of value.  It's private sales and what the average Joe is willing to pay for the car that determine a median price to go by.  These numbers are rarely noted or taken into consideration.  In this case, the average Joe and private sales are the majority, and the majority will take precedence over the higher numbers reflected from auction houses, dealers, flippers, and consignment shops.   

Sadly, most people that sell a pagoda expect/ask a very high price.  I'm excluding restored examples or low mileage examples.  I'm making reference to good solid survivors that run and drive fine, but need cosmetics and/or a tune up.  So to directly answer your question as to a value, I can only guess based upon your being in Canada.  Not many people in Canada want a Pagoda, so demand is next to nothing....but that'll be in your favor.  If this car is solid and needs nothing more than cosmetics or some engine work (light or heavy) you should be able to get it for $20,000-$40,000.  I know that's a large spread, but at least you'll know what NOT to pay over. 

There are periodical resources to gauge value, but most, if not all, heavily inflate those values.  Especially Hagarty.  Never ever use their price evaluation guides.  They purposely inflate values so people will insure their cars for more, which means a higher premium and more money in Hagarty's pocket.  Every price in their book is based solely upon auction house  and car dealer sales prices.  The sad part about Hagarty is that they allow people to insure their cars for whatever price they want.  Also known as an agreed value policy.  So say you insure your car for $80,000, but in reality it's only worth $20,000.  Hagarty will allow you to insure it for $80,000, but when a total loss is deemed after an accident, Hagarty will not pay the $80,000 to you.  They'll only pay within a median range of what the car is worth.  They've gotten caught up in court several times regarding this, and every time they've lost and had to pay the full amount of the policy.  They are extremely corrupt.  For insurance use J.C. Taylor or Grundy. 

If you want to look at a price evaluation guide then refer to Ron Kowalke's old car price guide.  It's an unbiased and honest representation of a cars actual worth based only upon private sales (between private sellers and buyers, no dealers) and what the masses are willing to pay, and NOT auction house, dealer, flipper, or consignment shop prices.  Alternatively, you can ask the fellas on this forum to chime in.  Not all of them will agree on value, but there will be a good average to go by after it's all said and done.  :) 

TheEngineer

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  • USA, West Seattle, WA
  • Posts: 775
  • '69 280SL,Signal Red,
Re: Stumble across- what am I looking at?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2020, 23:15:01 »
My car's S/N is 007537 and it was restored when I bought it. It was a California car as per the delivery dealer's location given to me by the MB classic center. California cars fade more in the sun and my car was repainted in the original color but adding a clearcoat. The big caveat is rust and if your car was driven in places where they salt the streets in the Winter there may be rust. Inside the front fenders, on top of the headlight buckets and on top of the frame there are places where road grime lays and where it is prone to rusting. On top of the mufflers and between the rear outer and inner fenders. As said before, rust damage is very costly to repair. As to the price you may have to pay, it depends on how needy the owner is to sell it. It helps if you offer cash.
'69 280SL,Signal Red, 09 cam, License BB-59U
'67 230SL, 113042-10-017463 (sld)
'50 Jaguar Roadster XK120, #670.318 (sld)
tired engineer, West-Seattle,WA