Author Topic: Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany  (Read 619 times)

Rolf-Dieter

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Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany
« on: March 11, 2020, 11:55:19 »
Hello Dear Members,

A German Frend of mine likes to export back to Germany a 1983 Mercedes back to Germany.

The car is no longer original (for example: it has European headlights, however it has the US required bumpers. Can someone point me to a thread where export from Canada to Germany was discussed of a none Pagoda?

I am looking for,

- What is required in regard to Originallety
- import duty
- maintenance records etc

Any help you can provide will be very much appreciated.

I’ve done several searches, however cannot find anything from the last 1 to 3 years that I can help my friend with.

Thank you,

Dieter
Dieter

Mercedes-Benz 1969 Pagoda 280 SL Auto. Exterior Blue, Interior Blue Leather
Mercedes-Benz 2011 SL 63 AMG Roadster, Exterior Sliver Metallic, Interior Black Leather
I consider myself fortunate to have something New and something Old to enjoy

114015

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Re: Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2020, 22:33:23 »
Ach Rolf-Dieter....!  ;)
This is not so difficult..., com'on!   ;D

If you want to export a car from a country like Canada and bring it to another country, let's say Germany, then it is the importing country's border that setups the burdens.
Or, with other words, if you want to import a car from anywhere in the world to Germany ... or let's better say the EU, those local laws there apply.

And that's also how you do the (Google) search:
Search for "Import Oldtimer aus Kanada"
Search in the destination's language, not the departing country's language.
Doing so I got a lot of links, see here:


https://www.oceancar.de/de/zollrechner.html
https://sclrotterdam.com/de/privatkunden/oldtimer-importieren
http://www.tuev-oldtimer.de/import-oldtimer
http://www.kanadischesrecht.de/fachartikel/wirtschafts-und-handelsabkommen-ceta/

There is tons of material.

Especially the TUEV-oledtimer homepage is very very useful !

Generally:
If you want to export a car from Canada/USA to EU including Germany,
make sure that you have

- proof of ownership (sales contract, title, etc.)
- have a shipping company (ocean voyage to EU, Bremerhaven, Antwerpen or Rotterdam or so)
- you have to pay Customs (about 10% of the sales value or less, see comments in the link above) upon arrival
- you have to pay 19% VAT in the destination country (here: Germany)

It is absolutely unimportant whether your car is registered or not, running or not or whether the headlights are ... as you say...  'original'; US versus Europa headlights doesn't count for the transport and import into the destination country.

Thus...,
first of all you have to import the "goods" (a classic car is nothing else but (special) goods) to the destination country (DE for example), then you have to pay your duties: Customs and value-added tax...

and then...
you can go further.   ;) 8)

The _registration_ of a car is another story....,    ???
for that you have to provide:

- proof of ownership (title, etc.)
- certificate of non-objection frm Kraftfahr-Bundesamt in Flensburg (that your car is not stolen, etc.)
- test/certification of roadworthyness (generally referred to 'TÜV' in Germany)
- car insurance,
etc.

Getting the technical inspection approval (there is the TÜV and other organisations in Germany)  for that
is basically as for any other car in Europe/Germany:

- safe, acccurate, every change written into the documentation (title, Fahrzeugbescheinigung),

some minor changes do apply to headlights (no US sealed beam headlight lamps allowed but EU-approved ones), sometimes additional Kilometer-numbering on your speedo...,
that's mostly it.

Importing a 1983 Mercedes into Germany means that the car is 37 years old, and based on age eligible to get the "Oldtimer status" (classic car exempt) if it is mostly "nice" and "original".
An expertise by a competent expert (STVZO § 23) is mandatory for this
in order to obtain the "H-number" (H = historic status on the registration plates and of course the accompanying paperwork, the registration):

Please see here:

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/oldtimer/oldtimer-gutachten-so-bekommt-ihr-klassiker-ein-h-kennzeichen/

"Ziel: Der Titel Kraftfahrzeugtechnisches Kulturgut nach § 23 StVZO "

The TUEV and ADAC homepages are a wealth of information for this.


I did exactly this with my SL which you  personally know.
I bought my 230 privately 1995 in Seattle, organized a freight forwarding or shipping company ('Spedition') experienced with such a stuff (I tend to remember it was Hegeler in Bremen),
the car was picked up in Seattle from George (the preowner) by a trucking service, carried to the harbor in Los Angeles, loaded onto a freight ship (a German one...),
passed Panama Canal and arrived in Bremerhaven harbor 4 weeks later.
From there we picked it up with a trailer  - until after the car cleared customs .... :-\ :'( :-X


Don't underestimate these costs!
Transport was roughly $ 1000 and Customs and VAT was about 1/3 of the car's actual value.

So, there is some considerable costs coming up to the private importeur.   ??? :-[

There are.... some exempts, if you can prove it has been your car for an extended periold (at least half a year of so ??) when someone returns to his  homecountry (here Germany)..., then there is no tax/customs or so ... but I am not sure about these details. It's worth asking the shipment agent for the details.


Best,
Achim


« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 00:33:58 by 114015 »
Achim
(Germany)

Rolf-Dieter

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Re: Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2020, 00:59:01 »
Dear Achim,

Wau, thank you ever so much Achim for this so very valuable information. I will forward this information to my Frend Thomas in Germany it will be of great value to him. I am along with another very experienced Pagoda SL Group member (he often is a Mercedes Judge and extremely knowledgeable on Mercedes cars. I know him since 2015 when he awarded my car 1st place at the Ontario Autobahn car show), are helping Thomas to look this car over before he makes the purchase and shipment to add to his collection.

I cannot ThankYou enough for your help and effort.

Best Regards.

Dieter
Dieter

Mercedes-Benz 1969 Pagoda 280 SL Auto. Exterior Blue, Interior Blue Leather
Mercedes-Benz 2011 SL 63 AMG Roadster, Exterior Sliver Metallic, Interior Black Leather
I consider myself fortunate to have something New and something Old to enjoy

450sl

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Re: Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2020, 09:17:11 »
I was under the impression that importduty of 30 +years  in The Netherlands was 0% and vat was 9% over total costs (car+transport etc).

You may want to check with the german-members if they can get it trough rotterdam-port on this conditions.

Success Mark

Cees Klumper

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Re: Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2020, 13:00:38 »
To add to Mark's suggestion, sometimes it can be easier or cheaper to import a car first in another EU country, then transfer it later to the ultimate destination country. Once a car is registered in the EU, transfer to another EU country is relatively straightforward.
Cees Klumper
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FGN59

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Re: Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2020, 13:09:01 »
For what it’s worth, the 1969 280SL (US model) I recently bought was (re)-imported to Europe about 11 years ago (it was then 42 years old) by a German company through Holland. [It was sold about one year later to an Iranian guy living in France and working in Switzerland, then resold by this guy after 5 years to a French guy living in Paris and then to me]. I have paperwork showing the car was imported in Rotterdam and that the owner (a German entity) paid import duty and taxes in Holland. The total paid was 1.800€ on a declared value of 17.389€, with the mention ‘more than 30 year old’. The car passed inspection in Germany (TÜV) and was registered in France for the first time in Europe in 2010 (it was not registered in Germany).

On a separate but related instance, in 2008 I bought and imported to France a Jaguar MK2 registered in Germany, and didn’t have to pay any duties nor VAT (all inside Europe). Had to show paperwork to the tax office, but purely for administrative or statistical purposes I imagine.  Vive l’Europe!
François

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1994 Toyota Land Cruiser HDJ80 4.2L diesel
1955 Massey Ferguson TEF20 diesel tractor 😁
Before
1962 Jaguar MK2 3.8L (4.2L XJ6 engine), black, tan leather interior
1968 Peugeot 204 roadster, white, black interior

450sl

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Re: Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2020, 18:45:57 »
Don't know now but a few years ago it  was possible to have the best of both worlds.
Ship to Rotterdam then on the trailer (by a dedicated transporter) to France : pay vat then back to the netherlands and import using the 30+ no duty import tax rule..

The French customs had a so much lower vat percentage that even the costly 2 way flattrailer trip and paperwork was profitable.

114015

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Re: Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2020, 00:29:41 »
Hallo Rolf-Dieter,

Quote
I know him since 2015 when he awarded my car 1st place at the Ontario Autobahn car show), are helping Thomas to look this car over before he makes the purchase and shipment to add to his collection.

You are not on occasion referring to Thomas Hogelucht from Gronau,
aren't you...?
 ;) :D ;D 8)


Best,
Achim


Achim
(Germany)

114015

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Re: Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2020, 00:38:55 »


Yes...
what Cees, Mark and Francois mention is also correct and clearly good advice.
Unfortunaltely, I did not know all of those possibilities 25 years back when I imported my car...
It was not my initial plan to buy a car when I was in Seattle back then..., it just 'happened...'   :o ???



Achim
Achim
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Rolf-Dieter

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Re: Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2020, 02:31:46 »
Achim,

Habe Dir ein PM zukommen lassen.

Dieter
Dieter

Mercedes-Benz 1969 Pagoda 280 SL Auto. Exterior Blue, Interior Blue Leather
Mercedes-Benz 2011 SL 63 AMG Roadster, Exterior Sliver Metallic, Interior Black Leather
I consider myself fortunate to have something New and something Old to enjoy

MikeSimon

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Re: Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2020, 23:47:07 »
If you can document that you have owned the car for a certain period of time ( I want to say 6 months or so ) there is no import duty or import tax (VAT) on a vehicle as it is considered your personal property and not a commercial for sale item.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
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Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

Peter van Es

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Re: Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2020, 16:14:57 »
If you can document that you have owned the car for a certain period of time ( I want to say 6 months or so ) there is no import duty or import tax (VAT) on a vehicle as it is considered your personal property and not a commercial for sale item.

If I understand correctly, only if you as the owner are moving to that country yourself and importing it as part of your household belongings.
1970 280SL. Please do not mail or PM me questions on Pagoda's... I'm not likely to know the answer.  Please post on the forum instead!

Cees Klumper

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Re: Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2020, 05:33:45 »
I think that's correct  Peter, at least that is how things worked when I moved from Holland to Switzerland and then later onto France. No taxes due to the cars being personal property as part of the move. I did have to provide documentation that I had owned them for the requisite amount of time.
Cees Klumper
1969 Mercedes 280 SL automatic white
1986 Nissan 300 ZX 5-speed brown metallic
1990 Ford Bronco II 2WD colonial white

Rolf-Dieter

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Mission Accomplished - Exporting a 1983 Mercedes to Germany
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2020, 20:37:15 »
Just to UPDATE and close this Thread.

First I like to thank everyone on this thread for your help and Input. Also, Doug ThankYou, I look forward to meeting you in Toronto for a nice meal and some cool once. :)

ThankYou!!!

Dieter

A pagodentreff.de Member (Thomas H. that I meet during a Mosel Event in Germany asked me some time ago if I can help him to locate a Euro Sl 380 here in Canada or in the USA. A few weeks ago we found one here in Ontario Canada near Toronto. My recommendation was to have someone look the car over, drive the car and let the purchaser and myself know it the car was a candidate for export and if the asking price was fair.

Initial Inspection and Test Drive

I could not think of a better candidate then Doug Dees (a Member of SL Pagoda Group and Judge at many Mercedes car show events) to carry out this task. I contacted Doug (I know Doug since 2013) and he agreed to do this. Once Doug did this he provided a preliminary visual report to me and I then informed the purchaser. I recommended to Thomas that a detailed Pre-Purchase inspection be made before he commits himself to purchase the car. Thomas agreed to pay 50% of the Pre-purchase inspection report I will request the purchaser to pay the other 50% Doug checked with his shop that he has been using for nearly 30 years. This was done and agreed to. 

Pre-Purchase Inspection @ EuroMotion Toronto

The car was taken to EuroMotion, Toronto Ontario for a complete Pre-Purchase Inspection. We had an agreement of $500.00 Canadian the cost of the final inspection was $614.10 (for gaskets and taxes). This cost then was split between Purchaser and Seller. Once the seller and purchaser received there a copy of the inspection report a final selling price was negotiated the original asking price was reduced by $2,400.00 Canadian (based upon the fine details of the Pre-inspection report).

Delivery to the Shipping Depot of the car and Payment

The Seller, Raed H. delivered the car On March 23 to the Shipping Depot were he meet Doug. Photos and the Bill of Lading were then forwarded to the Purchaser Thomas H. in Germany. Today the Seller Raed H. confirmed that payment has been deposited into his account.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All communications have been conducted by e-mail, telephone, and Facebook. I recommend highly should you purchase a car for shipment to another country have the car Pre-Purchase Inspected and try to split the cost for this with the seller. Both will end up with a detail report as to what will be required. If it is a sale or not.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another fine Mercedes returns back to Germany. Congratulations Thomas on your fine Purchase!!! The Pagoda that you

PS. I will invite both Thomas H. and Raed H. To join our SL Pagoda Group, perhaps Thomas will start a Thread under other cars during the various repairs he will be doing himself.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 20:42:15 by Rolf-Dieter »
Dieter

Mercedes-Benz 1969 Pagoda 280 SL Auto. Exterior Blue, Interior Blue Leather
Mercedes-Benz 2011 SL 63 AMG Roadster, Exterior Sliver Metallic, Interior Black Leather
I consider myself fortunate to have something New and something Old to enjoy