Author Topic: New Member - Questions on W111 220SE Hazard Switch/Instrument lighting  (Read 4477 times)

hansr433

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Hello all, I am new here; 25 years owner of a '63 220SE Cab.  I just finished a total restoration and took the car on a 2,000 mile shake-down trip last summer.  She performed without any hitches.  Now, I would like to add a Hazard Switch.  Could you please recommend the correct set of parts I should hunt for, and perhaps share a tutorial on how to do it?  Also, I cannot remember if the heater controls should be lit at night.  Currently it is like a black hole, so I am thinking that we forgot something.  I seem to remember that my W113's controls were lit at night.  Here are some photos of the car, currently in the UK.

TIA

Hans
Hans
1963 220SE Cabrio (Exterior: Navy MB 332, Top: Haarz Navy, Interior: 482P Sahara Beige)
1963 BMW R69S

wwheeler

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Wow that is beautiful and fantastic job on the restoration!

No, the W111 heater controls are not lit and yes I believe all W113 cars are. I could be wrong, but I think the later W108 cars are also lit. The W111 design predates the W113 and the W108 back from 1959. It was a similar design and function as the Ponton cars. I would imagine you have the chrome knobs on the levers? My '68 280SE had the black plastic "safety" knobs which I removed and installed the much nicer chrome ones.

My W111 has the dash mounted hazard switch but not sure how you would go about wiring it up. You could take a look at the pagoda wiring diagrams and copy that. It won't be original to the car either way, so it does not matter that it looks factory. I would imagine you will not want to drill into your dash and maybe use a switch under your dash.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

dpreston Virginia

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My 69 European 280SE 111 has the black safety knobs that Wally referred to in his reply post.
I think I will have to look into the chrome levers!

Hans, That is one beautiful restoration!! Its a 4 speed like mine that's pretty rare.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 19:51:41 by DPreston »
190SL 1960 Sold
280SL 1969
280SE 1969 cabriolet
Vette 67
Porsche 912 67

neelyrc

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Hans, welcome to the Forum.  Your 111 is beautiful! Will you be returning the  car to Italy?

You also mention your 113.  We would love to see some pictures of the 113 as well.
Ralph

1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
1972 Mercedes-Benz 280SEL 4.5
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
Italy
2004 Toyota HiLux D4D Pickup
2008 BMW 330xd Futura Coupe' (E92)

114015

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Re: Bosch 0 350 240 002
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2020, 02:24:50 »
Quote
Now, I would like to add a Hazard Switch.  Could you please recommend the correct set of parts I should hunt for, and perhaps share a tutorial on how to do it?

Hans,
Beautiful 220 Cabriolet - indeed !
Congratulations and welcome to the Group.

Yes,
you can retrofit a hazard switch - basically everywhere where you want to have it.
Since you have such a nice freshly restored W111C and even burled wood,
I would not "place" the hazard switch on the dashboard - as was factory-done on the (later) 280ies like in David's case where  that is completely accurate.

(If I were you) I would place it under the dash near the left hand side kick panel.
There it also was on the earlier 230 SLs.

I have got a conversion recommendation from a German forum colleague who did that on his 280 SL. I basically copied his method but placed the hazard flasher relay under the dash - did not want to drill into the juvenile dash works .... 8)
Could provide the tutorial to you but it is in Deutsch - and thus worthless for you...??  ???


There are even (aftermarket) hazard flasher knobs out there with the proper W111 fintail design.  8)
But you have to seek a bit to find them.
Or fabricate them on your own... ;)

Good luck & keep us informed

Achim

Achim
(Germany)

doitwright

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I am glad to see you are looking to add the hazard flasher knob the proper way. Since the early W111 seem to have been delivered without this knob you also need to determine where to locate it. The 65 coupe I had briefly last year had a dealer installed flasher (indicated on original delivery receipt) added to the underside of the dash. It looked like something they would have bought at Warshawsky.
Frank Koronkiewicz
Willowbrook, Illinois

1970 280SL Originally Light Ivory - Now Anthracite Gray Metallic

SEB

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Ciao Hans,
it is really nice job. Regarding the tutorial you can find for instance the link below:

http://w113.eu/geschlossen/Optimierungen/einbau_warnblinkanlage.htm

I have somewhere also an exactly description if you will put it on the dashboard in the W111, but at the moment I can not find it- is also in German. The original Bosch switch you can get for about 50 Euro.

Sebastian

Sebastian
1967 250 SL, 4 Speed, Euro spec, Tunis beige (462H),

SEB

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By the way can you tell me in which way you cleaned the valve cover? In 2016 I rebuild in my W111 the engine and the valve cover was gals bead blasted- now after some time the aluminum do not looks so shiny- so it was told me that I should protect the surface after- but with what?

Sebastian
Sebastian
1967 250 SL, 4 Speed, Euro spec, Tunis beige (462H),

lpeterssen

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Dearest Hans

Beautiful W111.

Let me help you with that switch project.  You have to do the following:

Your car came with  a flasher relay that is either mounted below the steering column next to two large 12 pin female connectors that provide signals to the instrument cluster and the column mounted turn signals switch.

The other possibility for this relay is to be mounted on the firewall relays bracket. That is for cars previos to year 65 as far as I have seen.

In both cases you will have to modify somehow your wiring harness.

I will explain the first case. (Flasher relay inside the cabin)

There are three cables coming to this flasher relay.

1) black/red/green is the feed 12v cable which has power only when car is switched on/running.  That is called a terminal 15 feed. It comes from fuse terminal 5.  You will use this signal on your hazard switch relay on the pin labelled “15”

2) black/white/green. This is an output signal that goes to the steering turn signal swicth.  You will use this cable to feed the terminal called “49a” or terminal “54” depending on the brand of hazard switch you buy.

3) brown. This is a ground cable.  You will use it on the terminal “31” of your flasher relay.

Now lets continue....

The typical Bosh hazard/relay has 6 pin.  The connections for the firs three has been explained above taking signals from previously installed flasher relay.

1) black/red/green goes to terminal 15
2) black/white/green goes to terminal 49a
3) brown goes to terminal 31
And the remaining ones
4) terminal 30 needs a permanent un switched 12V feed. Take that signal from fuse no.1 output with a 16AWG cable (that is 1.5mm2 section)
5) terminal labelled “R” goes to cable Black/green at the steering switch 12 pin connector (previously mentioned before) do not confuse with same cable going to the 12 pin connector which feeds the instrument cluster (will work but that cable is too thin (0.5 mm2)
6) terminal  labeled “L” goes to cable Black/white in the same place as cable 5)

If you need further help PM me no problem.

Best regards
Lp

hansr433

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Hello all, thank you for all the nice comments and good information.

Since you asked:  I don't have the W113 (69 280SL) any longer. Sold it in the late 80s after restoring it, but loved that car.  I am pretty sure that it had black rubber heating/venting controls.  I have now sourced chrome levers and will try to illuminate the controls by placing a bulb strategically behind the controls.  If it looks hokey, I will drop the idea.  I found a period correct switch being offered by a friendly Ebayer in Canada and have just started restoring the faded white inscription with a crayon.  Photos attached.  Here are some ideas I am toying with.  The car had an 80s radio in it when I bought it in 95, but I also received the original Becker radio in bad shape.  It is possible today to get a vintage look Becker with USB, Bluetooth etc. and I would like to replace the 80s radio with a updated Becker, install a late W111 centre console (https://cabrio.de/de/notsitz/polster-verkleidung/mercedes/110-111-112/verkleidung-auf-mitteltunnel-111-112-cou-cab-detail sells the frame) and put a Bluetooth speaker (UE Megaboom or similar), USB connectors and the emergency switch into the console.  The whole thing is easily reversed and will provide amazing sound.  I don't fancy placing speakers into the footwell and in the rear.  More photos of the console and seat belts in the next post.

Hans
1963 220SE Cabrio (Exterior: Navy MB 332, Top: Haarz Navy, Interior: 482P Sahara Beige)
1963 BMW R69S

hansr433

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Here is a photo of the front 3-point seatbelt installation (not quite finished) and the centre console frame I mentioned in my earlier post.
Hans
1963 220SE Cabrio (Exterior: Navy MB 332, Top: Haarz Navy, Interior: 482P Sahara Beige)
1963 BMW R69S

hansr433

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Hello Sebastian,  we used VAPOUR BLASTING which is a lot less destructive than particle blasting.  Just google the term to find places near you which offer this service.  I also restore vintage BMW motorcycles and use that technique on the motor block.  Glass or sand blasting destroys the casting marks and texture and also leaves you open to having tiny remnants in the oil or water passages which will eventually find their way into the combustion chambers.  The valve covers were left natural and are wiped with warm soapy water when the car is washed.
Hans
1963 220SE Cabrio (Exterior: Navy MB 332, Top: Haarz Navy, Interior: 482P Sahara Beige)
1963 BMW R69S

hansr433

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Hello Achim, very nice switch.  Who reproduces this one?  I read German, so your instructions would be appreciated.  Thank you.
Hans
1963 220SE Cabrio (Exterior: Navy MB 332, Top: Haarz Navy, Interior: 482P Sahara Beige)
1963 BMW R69S

hansr433

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Hello LP,  thank you for posting the detailed instructions and also you private PM.  Yes, I would be interested in a quote for a sub harness. 
Hans
1963 220SE Cabrio (Exterior: Navy MB 332, Top: Haarz Navy, Interior: 482P Sahara Beige)
1963 BMW R69S

hansr433

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Hmm, the first try to post the console photo did not work. Strange.
Hans
1963 220SE Cabrio (Exterior: Navy MB 332, Top: Haarz Navy, Interior: 482P Sahara Beige)
1963 BMW R69S

Aaron h

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Hmm, the first try to post the console photo did not work. Strange.

Unless Cabrio modified this piece you'll have to modify it yourself.  The late W111 coupe` and cabriolet that this piece fits has a wider transmission tunnel than  your 220se cabriolet has.  In addition, this piece is made to work only with the BEHR air conditioning unit used in the late W111 coupe` and cabriolet.  Otherwise there will be a large hole/gap that will look really odd. 

The pictures below show a late W111 coupe`/cabriolet model that utilizes this piece in question.  One is with the BEHR air conditioning, The other picture shows a late W111 model without air conditioning. 

hansr433

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Aaron, thank you for clarifying about the tunnel width.  I was not aware of this.  So, if I want to go ahead with this idea, I will need to make a console from scratch.  TBC.

Hans
Hans
1963 220SE Cabrio (Exterior: Navy MB 332, Top: Haarz Navy, Interior: 482P Sahara Beige)
1963 BMW R69S

Aaron h

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Well, I'd still first ask Cabrio if what they're offering is modified for the early W111 and all W112 coupe` and cabriolet models.  If not, then they need to be informed that what they offer is only for the late low grill models.  See, I don't know if this piece Cabrio offers is actually modified to fit early modes or if they are just that uneducated about the fitment of it.  So it's hard to say until we ask them......but even then they could tell us wrong because of their not being educated.  I guess a measurement of the opening that goes over the tunnel would be the best way to know for sure. 

That aside, you could always still buy the one they offer.  Since it'll be too wide you could cut material off of it to make it fit.  Afterward, the hole in the top of it could have material added to fill in the gap.  If you plan on adding air conditioning after fitment you may have issues fitting the early BEHR or the American Kuhlmeister unit.  This piece was designed to specifically accommodate the late BEHR A/C system.   Then again, if you won't be fitting A/C then just fill in the gap at the top.  After all modifications are done the piece will be ready to cover in carpeting and fitted. 

114015

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Quote
Hello Achim, very nice switch.  Who reproduces this one?  I read German, so your instructions would be appreciated.

Yes, Hans...,
Let me first ask Guenther for permission..., it is his article/instruction well-equipped with pictures, very useful. Basically the same advice that L Petterson gave further above in this thread.
It is written in German as I mentioned - and specifically written for the Pagoda. However, basically the electrics on the W111 is pretty much the same on this. I'll keep you informed.

As to the "illuminated" switch - or better say, the knob with the red window therein...,
that one was specifically designed by a provider for the later relais (turn signal/hazard light  indicator) that _is_ already illuminated, the Bosch 0 335 240 002 (or 003) but would not work with your earlier black relais since that one doesn't have the switch's illumination (light bulb) already. Also the threads are supposed to be different..., M6 on yours and M8 (metric, 8 mm) on the later relais.
I bought the knob from 'a vendor' on the Bremen Classic Motorshow some years ago...,
I will have to find out hard who he is...
If you have time then I can organize one but surely this will take me quite a couple of weeks/perhaps months. The switch alone (I think with chrome escutcheon) was about 35.00 €€ or so.

Best,

Achim
Achim
(Germany)