Author Topic: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date  (Read 4546 times)

Tyler S.

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Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« on: February 20, 2020, 17:20:14 »
Not sure if this topic has been discussed before but if the steering wheel is original you can determine the exact date the car rolled off the assembly line. Under the steering wheel pad on the steering wheel itself is a DD/MM/YY date stamp. Double checking the production statistics this date falls within the correct timeframe for my vin range. In my case 23rd day of July, 1967.  See photo below. 
Tyler
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 20:33:01 by Tyler S. »
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
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doitwright

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Re: Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2020, 17:40:56 »
Something new to learn every day. I will look at my steering wheel as soon as I get home.
Frank Koronkiewicz
Willowbrook, Illinois

1970 280SL Originally Light Ivory - Now Anthracite Gray Metallic

Rolf-Dieter

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2020, 20:03:55 »
Hi Tyler,

I’m not sure if that is correct, it might also be that when this particular part was manufactured it was stamped by the Machinist or Inspector as a work order item. Only someone that worked at the factory will know for sure.

I concur that it is close to the car completion date, my thinking here is that there is properly no sufficient time to use a low stress stamp on the final assembly line.

Further I say this since from personal experience when I worked at Carman Gia as a student in Osnabrück Germany (1956)we unloaded the undercarriage from rail road cars into the parking lot and the steering assembly was in place.

BTW. It was great fun sitting on a wooden box and being pushed down the ramp to park the lower section (less, seats, etc etc), into the parking lot for final assembly operation of the car).   

Dieter
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 20:14:38 by Rolf-Dieter »
Dieter

Mercedes-Benz 1969 Pagoda 280 SL Auto. Exterior Blue, Interior Blue Leather
Mercedes-Benz 2011 SL 63 AMG Roadster, Exterior Sliver Metallic, Interior Black Leather
I consider myself fortunate to have something New and something Old to enjoy

MikeSimon

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2020, 20:34:07 »
Rolf-Dieter; just curious - what car did Karmann produce in 1956? That place has an amazing history of some great cars made.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
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Rolf-Dieter

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2020, 20:50:17 »
Hi Mike,

When I worked there the model in production was the LowLight.

Dieter
Dieter

Mercedes-Benz 1969 Pagoda 280 SL Auto. Exterior Blue, Interior Blue Leather
Mercedes-Benz 2011 SL 63 AMG Roadster, Exterior Sliver Metallic, Interior Black Leather
I consider myself fortunate to have something New and something Old to enjoy

Tyler S.

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2020, 20:55:34 »
Deiter, Anything is certainly possible but the way in which the stamp was done is interesting. They were stamped with a hand punch and it looks as if they were struck twice and in haste.  I had also read on another forum that this is how the 600’s line production date is established. It’s definitely not the date of the steering wheel being manufactured as that would put its manufacture within 2 weeks of the production range. There is another 250sl close by that is within 100 digits of my vin. Ill take a look at that one sometime.
Here is a better shot.
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
2019 E450 Wagon. Majestic Blue
1936 Ford PU Flathead V8. Creme on tan interior.
1989 Volkswagen T3 Westfailia Campmobile. Dove Grey (blue)

neelyrc

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2020, 03:23:06 »
Tyler, do you have a copy of your data card from the Classic Center with a date stamp? It would be interesting to see if the stamped date on the steering wheel coincides with the date on the data card.
Ralph
USA
1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
1995 Jaguar XJS Convertible
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
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Tyler S.

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2020, 04:35:01 »
No date stamp on my data card. It seems that it was mostly Euro models that got that stamp and it was used for date of first registration.
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
2019 E450 Wagon. Majestic Blue
1936 Ford PU Flathead V8. Creme on tan interior.
1989 Volkswagen T3 Westfailia Campmobile. Dove Grey (blue)

49er

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2020, 16:37:56 »
 There wasn't a date stamp on my card either. I will have to pull the padded cover see if there is a July '68 date on mine. There is a date on the brake booster of "19. 6. 8." (19 June 1968) to indicate the boosters were made weeks ahead of the production of the vehicles.

John
1969 280SL 113044 10 003820
Un Restored, All Original, including the paint
Original Owner, Purchased September 18, 1968
4 speed manual, PS. 76707 miles
6775 miles since awoken from her 20+ yr "nap" in 2010

Benz Dr.

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2020, 18:22:23 »
I had an early 230SL here a couple of years ago. I believe the production date was Dec 13 1963 and the VIN was something like 001039. I rebuilt the engine and the serial number on it was 00083 which seemed rather odd to me. Then I remembered that the first 700 cars were all standard trans so then it started to make sense. This was an auto trans car and clearly the factory had a number of engines made up ahead of time and only used them when ordered. Clearly a 1963 automatic trans 230SL is a rare car.
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MikeSimon

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2020, 21:21:20 »
Hi Mike,

When I worked there the model in production was the LowLight.

Dieter

What in the world was that? Forgive my ignorance, never heard of that model!
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
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neelyrc

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2020, 03:58:44 »
No date stamp on my data card. It seems that it was mostly Euro models that got that stamp and it was used for date of first registration.
Is your data card one supplied by the Classic Center?  All the data cards I have seen that were supplied by the Classic Center included a date stamp.  My original card has no stamp.  I obtained a copy of my data card from the Classic Center when they were still being supplied gratis.  It includes the date stamp.

Both cards included here.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 04:21:27 by neelyrc »
Ralph
USA
1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
1995 Jaguar XJS Convertible
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
Italy
2004 Toyota HiLux D4D Pickup
2008 BMW 330xd Futura Coupe' (E92)

114015

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2020, 04:22:45 »
Quote
What in the world was that? Forgive my ignorance, never heard of that model!

Mike,
I think the "Typ 34", the ordinary "Karmann Ghia" or perhaps the "Typ 14" (Großer Karmann).

What else would it have been in those years?

 ;)
Achim
Achim
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Garry

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2020, 04:59:01 »
I think the Low Light Dieter is referring to was a Vw Bay Window Kombi of 1968 to 1972. It had it’s front indicators lights down low on the front where in 1973 onwards they were higher up in the fresh air intake.
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Rolf-Dieter

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2020, 06:18:10 »
Mike,

Check this out ...

——-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLAh535V0MI

Dieter
Dieter

Mercedes-Benz 1969 Pagoda 280 SL Auto. Exterior Blue, Interior Blue Leather
Mercedes-Benz 2011 SL 63 AMG Roadster, Exterior Sliver Metallic, Interior Black Leather
I consider myself fortunate to have something New and something Old to enjoy

Tyler S.

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2020, 14:03:49 »
Ralph, Yes my copy of my data card came from the classic center. No date stamp on it. From what I have read this was mostly a European item to delineate date of first registration. Looks like your car has a 707 European Delivery Program/ Tourist code so that would make sense that it has a date stamp as it was first registered in Europe, albeit briefly.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 14:17:03 by Tyler S. »
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
2019 E450 Wagon. Majestic Blue
1936 Ford PU Flathead V8. Creme on tan interior.
1989 Volkswagen T3 Westfailia Campmobile. Dove Grey (blue)

MikeSimon

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2020, 23:18:01 »
There are two fields on the card for  the date stamp. One says "Übernahmetag" which loosely translates to "transfer date" and the other is "Zulassungsdatum" which means "registration date".
I think it has to do with the procedure of the transfer to the customer. My card has a stamp in "Zulassungsdatum" which is the same date as shown in the original title as date of first registration.
The Übernahmetag field is blank. As both fields were stamped by the dealer or Niederlassung, I assume it has to do with how the car was transferred. An Übernahmetag stamp would appear if the car was handed to the customer without being registered by the MB dealer or Niederlassung. A "Tourist" - or European delivery - car could thus have a "Übernahmetag" stamp. This cars usually had a German "customs plate". this is/was an oval license plate, indicating the car was destined for export out of Germany. Once they are/were issued, you would not be able to get a German registration unless you would "re-import" the vehicle.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

ejboyd5

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2020, 00:12:19 »
It is my definite understanding and experience that Mercedes-Benz used the steering hub stamping to record the departure date from the production line for every W 108 and W 109 chassis vehicle.  I do not know if this practice carried over to the Pagoda and will not speculate aside from noting that all these vehicles were being built at approximately the same time.

Tyler S.

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2020, 04:37:03 »
Quote
  I do not know if this practice carried over to the Pagoda and will not speculate aside from noting that all these vehicles were being built at approximately the same time.

Even the 600 was built on the same line. Looks to be some 108’s on the far left lane.

Edit: Second photo of the same line taken at a later date.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 18:38:15 by Tyler S. »
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver
2019 E450 Wagon. Majestic Blue
1936 Ford PU Flathead V8. Creme on tan interior.
1989 Volkswagen T3 Westfailia Campmobile. Dove Grey (blue)

neelyrc

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2020, 15:21:06 »
......An Übernahmetag stamp would appear if the car was handed to the customer without being registered by the MB dealer or Niederlassung. A "Tourist" - or European delivery - car could thus have a "Übernahmetag" stamp. This cars usually had a German "customs plate". this is/was an oval license plate, indicating the car was destined for export out of Germany.......

Mike,
Thanks for this explanation.  My car was a “Tourist” delivery at the factory on 12 February, 1969.  The data cards that came with the car do not have a “Übernahmetag" stamp.  However, I obtained a data card from the Classic Center in 2017 and the card they supplied does have a 24.Feb.1969 date stamp. I was expecting that the date would match the actual delivery date of the car but it did not.

Today I went back and pulled out the Customs registration book.  The date stamped on the cover of the book reads “11.Feb.1969”, the day prior to the delivery date of the car.  The fold out data page of the book is date stamped “24.Feb.1969” which matches the date on the Classic Center supplied Data card.  I do not know the significance of the February 24 date.  The bottom line on the data page (18) indicates the Custom  license plate number.  This original plate is mounted on my front bumper.

Some members here have assumed that the date stamped data card obtained from the Classic Center would document the production date of their car.  The foregoing indicates that for my car this date is close but not the actual date.  Next step, check the steering column date stamp!

Thanks again for helping  provide some clarity, Mike.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 15:26:34 by neelyrc »
Ralph
USA
1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
1995 Jaguar XJS Convertible
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
Italy
2004 Toyota HiLux D4D Pickup
2008 BMW 330xd Futura Coupe' (E92)

MikeSimon

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2020, 21:38:09 »
Ralph:
Having no personal experience with the Euro or Tourist delivery program, I can only speculate.
The date of February 11 is the date of the International Registration Certificate. this should be the same date the oval customs plate was issued.
The date of February 24 is on a stamp from the Customs office in Weil-Otterbach.
Two possible scenarios:
1 - February 24 is date of actual export . This is unlikely, you would have had only 13 days two weeks to use the car in Germany?
2- It took 13 days for the customs office to process the paperwork.

Neither date has anything to do when the car was actually produced. Even on my card, for the car delivered in Germany to a German customer, the date is not a production date.

If you remember when you took possession of the car and when you turned it back in to have it shipped, you would have a little more info on the whole thing.
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

neelyrc

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2020, 04:10:09 »
Thanks Mike,
For completeness, I took delivery on February 12, 1969, as indicated in my last post. I exported the car from Germany the same day by driving it to Lugano, Switzerland, with the registration in hand.  The postdated stamping of February 24 will remain a mystery. 
Ralph
USA
1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
1995 Jaguar XJS Convertible
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
Italy
2004 Toyota HiLux D4D Pickup
2008 BMW 330xd Futura Coupe' (E92)

MikeSimon

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2020, 13:22:02 »
Ralph:

Did you physically receive the document with the February 24 stamp on February 12? How could that happen? Or did they send it to you?
The date February 24 should be the date the customs office in Weil-Otterbach processed the paperwork
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner

neelyrc

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2020, 02:59:25 »
Mike,

I had the registration book in hand, otherwise I could not have driven the car from the factory and especially across the border to Switzerland.   

The only thing that came later was a letter from MB of NA sending me a $200 refund. The purchase order included a deposit to be refunded on proof of export from Germany.  As I recall, I received a receipt of some sort from the Customs Agent at the border which I sent in to claim the refund. 

Another document I have is attached (printed both sides). It has a date stamp of 4.Feb.1969.  I may be wrong but I have always assumed this was the receipt for the registration book.  This doesn’t however provide any clarification.

As I indicated it is a mystery!

Thanks again,



Ralph
USA
1969 280SL, 4 Speed Manual, Dark Olive (291H), Parchment Leather (256), Dark Green Soft Top (747)
2007 BMW 328xi (E90)
1995 Jaguar XJS Convertible
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SL
Italy
2004 Toyota HiLux D4D Pickup
2008 BMW 330xd Futura Coupe' (E92)

MikeSimon

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Re: Proof Of Vehicle Assembly Completion Date
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2020, 13:30:34 »
The first document (letter) is self explanatory. The two-sided document is the confirmation of the registration office that the fee has been paid and the plate has been assigned.
Indeed there is a mystery inasmuch as you had the registration book in your hands on February 12 and it carried a date stamp of February 24.
Unless - the date of February 24 is supposed to be expiration date of the customs plate and the car has to be exported no later than that date.
It could also be that the customs officer was suffering from a hangover from a "Mardi Gras/Fat Tuesday" celebration, which is usually around that time :o ;D ;D
1970/71 280SL Automatic
Sandy Beige
Parchment Leather
Power Steering
Automatic
Hardtop
Heated Tinted Rear Window
German specs
3rd owner