Author Topic: My 1963 220seb coupe restoration update  (Read 10788 times)

114015

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Re: My 1963 220seb coupe restoration update
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2020, 03:17:26 »


Oh yes, Aaron,
That's correct - according to your list.
But the version of the "PKW-Austattungen -Interior appointments" book you have got is younger than my car. It is from post-1965,
and my (one) 230 is from 1963. There were very well different versions of these "PKW-Austattungen -Interior appointments" books available every few years.

And ah yes, there _have_ been some changes (for the 230 SL until 012466 and after 012467 to be exact) and for instance the grab handle on the passenger door panel, the padding on the ashtray and the padding in the  window cranks were always black until this change-over in Aug 1965. Thereafter those were "roughly" in interior color - as your list indicates.

I have to dig out the earlier list (I have only got the part for the 230 SL, not for the other contemporary W111s and so on), and that earlier list clearly indicated ivory for the door sill rubbers - and that is what it was on my car.

Sorry ....
Achim
(Germany)

114015

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Re: My 1963 220seb coupe restoration update
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2020, 03:21:38 »
Quote
Dark brown would be great! I wonder how the caramel would look with the cognac and dark olive green exterior? I think the nougat would be too gaudy. The black mat that is in there now looks ok but not fabulous.

How easy is it to order from them for shipping to the US?

Hello Wallace,
Well, I dunno! I have never ordered from them from outside Germany.
I ordered from them last year (from inside DE) and their service was top class.

I have got the pictured samples stack  from them and will check how the "nougat" or caramel looks with cognac (my 114 has got 8006, code 250) and let you know.

I could also check for you whether they are willing to send to the US or not...

Best,
Achim
Achim
(Germany)

Aaron h

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Re: My 1963 220seb coupe restoration update
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2020, 04:16:25 »
Achim, The book I referred to in my picture is for 230SL models from production start up until 012466.  I did not reference the later book.  There were not different versions of the PKW-Austattungen book.  There were only two publications put out during the production run of the Pagoda.  However, there were many reprints, and those are the ones that are noted to have misprints and mistakes in them, as well as complete missing pages.  The book I have was printed in 1963, while the other two e"early" books I have were printed in 1964 and 1965.  Between the three there are differences/mistakes/missing pages.....but none of them show any red interiors with creme` entrance rail sill mats.  With all of that in mind, I conferred with three other people that also have the original publication from 1963.  All of their books showed that red interiors had grey entrance rail sill mats.  There is one exception, though.  Interior trim code 214 (rust red) had brown entrance rail sill mats for all 230SL, as well as early 250SL. 

I find it hard to believe that Mercedes would do something so brazen as to pair Creme` sill mats with a red interior, as doing so goes against their previous and post color pairings.  However, if you still disagree, then I respect that.  All I ask is for you to reconsider the information that you presently have.  And please don't apologize to me.  We all make mistakes.  No worries.  :)

wwheeler

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Re: My 1963 220seb coupe restoration update
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2020, 23:07:39 »
Hello Wallace,
Well, I dunno! I have never ordered from them from outside Germany.
I ordered from them last year (from inside DE) and their service was top class.

I have got the pictured samples stack  from them and will check how the "nougat" or caramel looks with cognac (my 114 has got 8006, code 250) and let you know.

I could also check for you whether they are willing to send to the US or not...

Best,
Achim

Yes, I am interested Achim if you don't mind.

Thanks.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

114015

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Re: My 1963 220seb coupe restoration update
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2020, 02:08:53 »

Yes, Wallace,
Will do so.
Unfortunately currently I have buried the samples somehow but will dig out these as soon as I can for you.

Here is a picture from them from the net...,
I think the nougat comes pretty close to cognac...


Best,
Achim

Achim
(Germany)

114015

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Re: My 1963 220seb coupe factory interior appointment books
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2020, 02:57:14 »
Quote
Achim, The book I referred to in my picture is for 230SL models from production start up until 012466.  I did not reference the later book.

Hello Aaron,
You might have realized it took me a couple of days to find the suitable words in order to answer properly to your comments - which are absolutely correct BTW.
Well, the point is we both had here for the second time conversations where it goes into deep detail...;  although you are a very young "Group member" here (only 2 months so far), you have provided a wealth of knowledge here to the members, well looked into the details
- no wonder by your phantastic list of cars you own. Even a 600 Grand is in your collection!
Highly appreciate that.

Well (2nd 'well')...,
I did the very big mistake to buy the first (for me) buyable 230 SL I could get hands on 34 years ago... I was young back then ..., and I should not have done so. :D
Because that thing was a basket case, however a very early one - and my birth year! So I had to get it!

Well (3rd time) I learned a damned lot since then -especially by observing other people's cars, look and count the (often different) details and properly read the parts list and available factory literature - which wasn't much in the old days.

To make a long story short..., I do know very well that early 230ies with red interior (at least with some of the numerous red  interiors available for the 230ies) came with ivory/beige door sill rubbers.
But I cannot prove it (anymore) right now. I have buried the pieces of factory proof somewhere in my archive stacks, and before I haven't reached out to them
- it is easy,
I cannot prove this  - and you are right, and Achim is wrong.
It is that easy.
I can always claim whatever I want but if I cannot prove it - it's just  not true. :o
So you are right for the time being.  8)

I go and dig out what I can find ....,
here is already a pic of VIN no. 000064 - barn find, non-restored.
On TechnoClassica in Germany 2016 - US version
red interior (2500) with ivory door sill rubbers.
No. 000015 had that too but with interior code 203 (leather 1079)...
Still, we need this piece of factory documentation here.
I keep on looking.

Sorry for the confusion here, please...

Best,
Achim

Achim
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Aaron h

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Re: My 1963 220seb coupe restoration update
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2020, 03:58:53 »
Achim, I don't really have an interest in being right or wrong, per say.  I only want to represent what the literature tells us.  Even so, we also have to remember that it wasn't uncommon for Mercedes to use a different color if they were out of another color.  So that may also have some bearing on this.....maybe.

However, I must correct myself....or at least try to explain where I misspoke in my previous commentary.  ( I screwed up) Initially, I was only looking at leather interiors and not MB-Tex.  It turns out that the early 230SL with interior trim code 122 (Hellrot MB-Tex) did have a light colored entrance rail sill mat....6415 beige.  But not creme`.  However, interior trim code 117 Rot did have grey sill mats. To our eyes there is an obvious difference between creme` and beige, but I'm not sure if Mercedes thought so.  So your guess is as good as mine.  I just wanted to let you know that I now see what you're talking about.  However, nothing in any of the literature I have states that any of the red leather interiors had anything but gray entrance rail sill mats, that only the MB-Tex hellrot interiors had a beige sill mat.   So at this point I'm going to just accept that some red leather interiors had light colored entrance rail sill mats for unknown reasons. 

And thank you for the kind words and vote of confidence.  Yes, I'm the new guy that no one wants to listen to.  That's just how it goes.  I can only hope that after a while my commentary will mean something to those who read.  It is very hard not to come off as a "know it all", or as condescending or conceited.  I'm the furthest thing from any of those.  I just don't know any other way to relay the information......maybe if I make a video about some things and post the link that'll help to get rid of the stigma of it all. 

So again, I see what you're talking about, and I hope you and the other readers will understand why I initially said what I had said.  My apologies for any confusion. 

114015

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Re: My 1963 220seb coupe restoration update
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2020, 02:24:50 »

Dear Arron,
An Update here...,
I have to admit and I have to be fair against you...,
now I found one of my (two) pieces of factory documentation I was referring to,
and that document confirms clearly what you say.
There were very few interor colors (also one red) with 6415 beige  door sill rubbers (yes correct of course: beige not creme, I was just inaccurate here...).
Or, with other words: Aaron was correct and Achim was wrong!

I cannot prove (by literature) what I was claiming,
so I am very very sorry what I said and have to withdraw my claim.
As I cannot prove this by now - it hasn't been in the old days - that's it.

Sorry to all for the confusion.

Mea culpa ....,

Achim


(unimportant as to whether some very very early cars had some "effects" that were barely anyhow documented.., my claim could not be proven by the literature..., that's it!)
Achim
(Germany)

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Re: My 1963 220seb coupe restoration update
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2020, 07:54:45 »
Aaron and Achim, dont want to interfere in your discussion , just want to say i really enjoy you guys being here and share all your knowledge with us. 

thank you and keep going!
Mark



wwheeler

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Re: My 1963 220seb coupe restoration update
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2020, 17:07:14 »

https://www.ok-gummiwerk.de/produkt/en-turschwellerauflage-fur-klassische-mercedes-benz-fahrzeuge/?lang=en#prettyPhoto[product-gallery]/0/


At least "green" is availble but sadly not "brown".


But most important is here, Gentlemen, that light ivory is available in the exact color tone and pattern as was/is original on my '63 with its red interior (Code 203).  ;) :D
I was looking for that correct door sill rubber for 32 years - until I found it ....!
Now, where's the dark grey for the '64 ... (interior code 201)?  ::) :P :-[
Guess, I have to stain the (light) grey they have...   ???



Achim

Great news!!!!! I received my samples from OK Gummiwerk. They have expanded their colors and now have 10! New ones include dark green, dark blue and......Dark brown!!!  ;D Owners with Cognac interiors rejoice. The dark brown is conservative and I am torn between that and the"nougat" which looks better in person than on their website.

They do sell to the US also. The samples I received seem to have the correct pattern although a bit thicker and almost a full 4mm. Seems like the others I have see are 3mm or so. The thicker may fit better against the side chrome rails which always seem to have an annoying gap with the 3mm mat.

Their grey is lighter than the one that MB Classics (Germany sells). I have both now and can compare. So if you are looking for a darker grey. look here - https://www.mbclassics.de/sill-rubber-mat-set-W111cp-Ponton-Coupe-Cab-grey

 
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 21:05:25 by wwheeler »
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

wwheeler

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Re: My 1963 220seb coupe restoration update
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2020, 00:16:35 »
Looking at the samples I have, I changed my mind a bit on the W111 sill mat color. Mine car is a dark olive with Cognac leather.

According to Aaron's book, the door sill color should be dark brown. The dark brown from OK Gummiwerk is a bit on the purple side and only a bit more exciting than the black. My next thought was Nougat. But it is too much the same as the rest of the interior. So my final choice is..... Caramel! It looks really good with the dark olive and lightens up the other colors in the interior. Not what Mother Mercedes chose, but what I like the best. 
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

wwheeler

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Re: My 1963 220seb coupe restoration update
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2020, 00:33:40 »
Here is a pic of the samples I got. Of note:
4th from left - Dark green
5th from left - dark blue
7th from left - Brasil (sort of dark brown)
9th from left - Caramel (what I am using for the W111)
10th from the left- Grey (what I am using for the W128 with white/gray and red leather)

I tried to get the color as close as I could to the actual samples. But everyone's monitors will be different.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6