Author Topic: CSS wiring from transmission  (Read 4670 times)

FresnoBob

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CSS wiring from transmission
« on: March 18, 2019, 13:31:18 »
My constant speed solenoid has been activating as soon as the ignition is turned on.  Pawel66 correctly advised that I had a ground fault somewhere. 

I isolated both the right hand side wire from the reverse pressure switch and the green / orange wire from the left side of my transmission and the CSS no longer activated.  After re-attaching the right hand side wire, the CSS still didn't activate, which I believe indicates the reverse pressure switch is faulty.  I believe the wiring of my left side terminal block is wrong as the green / orange wire was connected to the same terminal as a medium brown wire (which I believe is ground).  I've attached a picture.  Can anyone direct me to where I can find the proper wiring for this terminal block? 
Bob Comstock
1966 230 SL Euro Auto
2017 AMG C43 Cabriolet

wwheeler

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2019, 14:59:41 »
Look in the Tech manual under auto transmissions. There is a wiring chart there.
Wallace
Texas
'68 280SE W111 coupe
'60 220SE W128 coupe
'70 Plymouth Roadrunner 440+6

FresnoBob

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2019, 15:51:15 »
I've read and viewed the automatic transmission page wiring diagram, but can't decipher what is wrong with my current wiring.  Which screw gets the green/orange wire?  Brown (including 2 wire), black and white wires seem in the correct position, but below the brown - large reference, the listing mentions green/orange - pressure switch. 
Bob Comstock
1966 230 SL Euro Auto
2017 AMG C43 Cabriolet

WRe

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2019, 15:57:27 »
Hi,
here a simple drawing of the wiring.
...WRe

FresnoBob

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2019, 16:25:42 »
Thank you for the diagram, but I have three wires on my small screw. 

What I have:
Large screw - 2 brown in 1 ring, red/black
Medium screw - white, brown
small screw - black, brown, green/red

I'm not sure how to decode br/sw, br/ws and sw/rt

Bob Comstock
1966 230 SL Euro Auto
2017 AMG C43 Cabriolet

Benz Dr.

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2019, 17:58:13 »
I think this right:

br  brown
sw black
ws white
rt  red

1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

1970  3.5 Coupe
1961  190SL
1985   300CD  Turbo Coupe
1981  300SD
2013  GMC  Sierra
1965  230SL
1967 250SL
1970 280SL
1988 560SEC

WRe

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2019, 18:55:51 »
Hi,
here some clarifications.
Be careful with the 3 screws, use washer otherwise they could touch the gearbox housing (grounding).
The green/red cable could go to the pressure switch.
...WRe
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 19:10:35 by WRe »

jzearfoss

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2019, 23:23:45 »
Hey FresnoBob - check out this document from Sun Valley Mercedes Transmissions

https://www.mercedesdismantlers.com/16BoltInstallationInstructions.html

I think this will help you out.  Read thru a couple of times and scrutinize the diagram that follows the text.



1968 280 SL (AT)
2000 BMW Z3
1962 Pontiac Grand Prix
1951 Studebaker Commander
1937 Plymouth.

Pawel66

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2019, 07:02:27 »
FresnoBob, I think the green/red on your small screw is out of place. This may be the wire for pressure switches. It does not belong to the three screws.

Green/red from right hand side switch meets with gree/red from left hand side switch, one wire green/red goes to CSS. itis a connector outside of the three screws, next to them on the plate.

I am referring to FresnoBob post saying green/red wire hooked to small screw.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 10:26:26 by Pawel66 »
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

WRe

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2019, 08:52:22 »
Hi,
I would be pleased to receive a feedback.
...WRe

Pawel66

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2019, 10:27:29 »
I think it is great explanation. I would probably call the "idling switch' a "throttle switch", other than that I think it is great.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

FresnoBob

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2019, 19:57:30 »
Thanks to everyone for you advice.  I changed the wiring to remove the red/green wire and connected it to the pressure switch.  As the transmission shifts into either reverse or forward, the CSS is deploying and increasing the idle properly.  Wonderful!  I noticed when shifting from either reverse or forward into park, the idle increased significantly and then decreased back to normal.  The other 230 SL automatic here in Fresno didn't do that.  Any further suggestions? 
Bob Comstock
1966 230 SL Euro Auto
2017 AMG C43 Cabriolet

Pawel66

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2019, 21:16:32 »
Is linkage returning normally to "0" when you release the gas pedal? Nothing stuck? Both return springs in place? Observe the linkage returning to "0" when it returns from CSS pushed position. Something may be holding it. Ball joints lubricated?
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

FresnoBob

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2019, 21:35:07 »
Yes, I lubrictated the CSS today and I previously lubricated and adjusted all the linkages.  I'm not sure I have two return springs.  One is near the firewall, where is the other one supposed to be?
Bob Comstock
1966 230 SL Euro Auto
2017 AMG C43 Cabriolet

ja17

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2019, 02:09:58 »
The second one is at the intake venturi lever.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
1969 Dark Olive 280SL
2002 ML55 AMG (tow vehicle)
2002 SLK32 AMG (350 hp)
1982 300TD Wagon turbo 4spd.
1963 404 Mercedes Unimog (Swedish Army)
1989 flu419 Mercedes Unimog (US Army)
1998 E430
1974 450SLC Rally
1965 220SE Finback

Pawel66

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2019, 06:55:39 »
You can see it next to throttle on the picture. Between the throttle lever and the intake manifold.

PN A 110 993 17 10

As you remove the pressuer from the gas pedal or put gear selector to N or P with gas pedal on idle, all the linkages have to go immediately to "0". The engine will not rev if you have mixture set ok.

If the return spring does not help, try to see if your car revs up, how much and for how long when you press the brake.

My experience with revving up while selector moved to N or P:

When linkage returned after removing of foot from gas pedal - it returned immediately to "0".

When linkage returned after CSS disengaged - it did not return to"0" immediately.

I had to kick the gas pedal a bit, then it returned to"0". CSS push rod was not holding the lnkage. I imagine the motion when CSS disengages is slower and it did not overcome certain force that was holding the linkage. I am not sure how I fixed it as I did several things at a time (cleaning, lubricating, re-adjustment, installing new return springs.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 07:44:45 by Pawel66 »
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

FresnoBob

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2019, 14:22:46 »
Thanks everyone for the very helpful advice.  The car is idling wonderfully and I do have two springs on the throttle linkage, but the firewall spring doesn't seem to be pulling sufficiently.  I will again review the linkage adjustments.

However, now my transmission shifts from 2 to 3 and 3 to 4 at only 2,000 to 2,500 rpm.  Am I likely to have a vacuum leak causing this?  I can't find anything on the forum guiding me in solving this puzzle.  Thanks in advance for your helpful suggestions. 
Bob Comstock
1966 230 SL Euro Auto
2017 AMG C43 Cabriolet

Pawel66

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2019, 07:36:20 »
I asked about the brakes pedal, because one of the reason for revving up when put to N or P may be that, when your mixture is too rich and you select with brake pedal depressed, booster increases air amount and engine, having more fuel in the mixture, revs up.

I do not have my computer at hand to give you part number for the gas pedal lever spring,  but if you call MB dealer, this should be no issue.

Others may name other reasons for revving up too, I guess.

Speed at which shifts are made is often the question of modulator pressure adjustment. This procedure is described in Technical Manual and in many posts o n the forum. Again, difficult for me to provide links right now. Just double check the units and values of pressures in sources and in posts, I think there was a mistake in one of the sources.

It is done via solenoid-modulator lever rod adjustment (accessed through the opening in the transmission tunnel in the passenger's footwell area) and/or adjustment bolt at the modulator. It is a relatively simple procedure (I did it myself, so it must be), but you need a gauge with a banjo connection. I made the little tool to turn the regulating bolt myself. When I took the car on the lift where she stood on her wheel - this was the easiest set up.

Others may be of more help here and better advise.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 07:51:32 by Pawel66 »
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

FresnoBob

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2019, 16:07:06 »
Thanks Pawel, I will adjust the modulator pressure shift points from the procedures in the technical manual.  Your advice is always much appreciated. 
Bob Comstock
1966 230 SL Euro Auto
2017 AMG C43 Cabriolet

Pawel66

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2019, 19:58:01 »
It is nice to help, as long as I do not mess anything up... but then others will correct it.

Just not to forget:
1. Please check the transmission oil level and quality first. If the oil has not been changed by you and you do not know when was it changed, if it looks worn (brown not red, smelling burnt a bit) - just change it.
2. Ignition timing, idle etc - all needs to be in tune because vacuum needs to be generated properly.
3. I could not find the correct shifting rpms where I am now (my BBB is at home), but please note that on updshift they change depending on accelerator position, engine load etc. - meaning how aggressive you drive, do you drive e.g. up the hill, etc. Take a look: https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=4116.msg25935#msg25935

I am sure if you do some search, you will find the correct rpm for upshifting range.

4. Then if the above factors are checked and the shifting rpms you get are wrong - come the adjustment procedures.

Some clues here: https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=28818.msg208510#msg208510

I might have, certainly, forgot about something important here...
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

FresnoBob

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Re: CSS wiring from transmission
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2019, 16:54:28 »
I've been able to spend some time on the transmission issues and can report the following:

The 3 position solenoid works as it should and the kick down switch is also activating the forward solenoid position. 

The fluid is full and only 8 months old and I changed the filter and diaphragm at that time. 

I found the shift lever bushings were completely gone and ordered a new set from Bud's. 

I re-read Joe's comments about measuring transmission modulator pressure, but I'm not sure where the transmission modulator port is located, or where to buy an M8 banjo fitting for a pressure gauge.  Any suggestions? 
Bob Comstock
1966 230 SL Euro Auto
2017 AMG C43 Cabriolet

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