How much paint to buy for complete spray

[johnk]

Im about two weeks out from spraying my car (hopefully) and its time to get the paint ordered. At $800 a gallon for Glasurit I like to have more than an un-educated guess when I place my order. I don't want to run short in the middle of the job and I don't want to end up with way more than I need. I do want enough base coat left over in case I need to repaint a fender or two down the road.

Its a complete paint job including cutting the doors, dash and engine compartment. I wont be spraying the topside of the floor panels like some do when they install all new metal. It will be a base coat clear coat system.

Does anyone have a good idea of how much base coat was used for their restorations? The second is how many coats of clear did they use and how much clear did they need? I want to make sure there is enough clear to do a good cut and buff plus subsequent buffing down the road. I am guessing about 4 coats of clear? I had the opportunithy to talk to the gentlemen who one the honor of the best restoration in the US in 2016. His painter used 6 coats of clear on his 1929 Auburn boat tail speedster but his new painter thas is doing his dads speedster is recommending only 4 coats this time.

[MikeSimon]

John:

Be careful applying too many layers of clearcoat. We hear these bragging stories all the time how restorers put a huge amount of clearcoat on a car to achieve a real deep luster. There is a serious danger with too many layers. Paint expands and contracts at a significantly different rate than metal. As a result, too thick of a paint layer will crack under heat cycles. Show cars that never leave a temperature controlled environment may be fine. Cars that are being driven and parked in the sun are not. Consult a painter who knows what he is doing and will give you an honest answer.

[wwheeler]

I think four coats of clear is fine as long as you are going to wet sand and buff afterward. Otherwise two the three coats is more than good enough. Thicker is NOT better. Keep in mind that even though you are using the same paint that was used to paint the car in 2018, it may not look exactly the same if you respray different panels years later.

For one, the paint will fade some no matter what you do. Also, spraying techniques vary and a guy doing the job in 2018 will not be the same as the guy doing the job in 2020. I wouldn’t worry about the base coat for doing large panels because it can be matched down the road to precisely what it has faded to.

As far as how much? You only want to spray as much base coat as it takes to have complete coverage. So that depends on what color sealer is used and how easily the body color can hide the subsurface. A pro painter should be able to tell you. I would say at least a gallon of base coat and maybe up to two. Get it mixed at the same time!!!! If you have any doubts, go for more. Don’t cheap out here.

[johnk]

Thanks gents. I am thinking 4 coats of clear. I will be cutting and buffing and will have to be very carefull on the edges.  The Glasurit dealer recommended one gallon of base coat. I  may end up using Standox theough as the color my son like is and "H" color meaning the original manifacturer was Herbert Standox. Final color decision is Monday night hopefully.

I painted several cars with multiple coats of clear back when I was in school. That was with laquer which is totally different. Don't think any of them ended up wiht cracks down the road as I sanded and buffed a high percentage of the clear off....sometimes too much.

[Shvegel]

John,
Curious as to why you are spraying special order Glasurit?  From experience I tend to shy away from any paint system where if I kick a can of something over the new one is a few days away.  Dupont's Chroma line is some pretty forgiving stuff for any marginal shooting conditions.  The best advice I ever had with that stuff was from Rick the guy who sprayed my car.  He said "You get what you spray.  If it is orange peeled when you spray it that is what you get.  If it doesn't run out of the gun you are OK.  I am going to do a partial paint job on my daily driver in my driveway this month and I will buy Chroma for that.

[Vander]

Here in Columbus, I have had Glasurit mixed on the spot including modern MB Designo colors, it does not take days to get.

Glasurit is what I decided to go with for another car.

[johnk]

Your lucky to have an active supplier near you. The supplier in the cleveland area stopped stocking it other than its Akron location because it has a limmitted demand. Even their Akron location doesn't keep a full range of color ingredidiants in stock.

[johnk]

Pat,
Thats a very good point. I was trying to stick to the original manufacturer of the color I pick as I thought it would add value to say I did. All that said I have to drive to Akron to get either Glasurit or Standox and both places are checking to see if they have the right colors in stock to mix what I need and We are out of warm weather after Thursday. I counted last night that I painted at least 15 cars when I was in school and knocking over a can of paint or incurring other problems was never out of the question. I have a full service PPG shop ten minutes from my home and a Dupont/Chromax shop five  minutes from my office. I bought the cheapest paint that the Dupont shop had to spray test colors and I couldnt beleve how easy it was.

Given that PPG charged me $169 for a quart of trunk paint and $180 for a quart of primer and activator for the undercarriage I am guessing it will be no less than Glasurit.

I guess I need to do a little research. Rick certainly knows his stuff.

[Shvegel]

One more thing I like about the Chroma is it dries to dust free really quickly.  We had a ton of trouble finding a single stage paint for my car.  I really wanted Rick to spray it with Chroma but we ended up with Nason which is sort of an off brand of Dupont.  I was hesitant until Rick said "How many days will it spend in the sun?  How many times will it see rain?  It has psossibly the cushiest life a paint job will ever have,  I think it will hold up.

[johnk]

Nason is actually their budget line at Dupont and is what I sprayed the test sheets with. I was surprised to see how easy it was to spray metalic evenly, and the paint on your car looks perfect. To be honest I'm not 100% sure of what advantages Glasurit or Standox offer other than having OEM paint. I was told by an experienced painter to go with Glasurit or Spies Hecker as they are so easy to paint with. Nason seemed to be pretty easy to use,and as far as finish goes I plan on cutting and buffing anyways as I am using a home made paint booth and anticipate some dust.

Building the paint booth today. Four filtered fans creating positive pressure and four filtered fans for the exhaust. Biggest concern though is getting the lighting correct.

[WRe]

Hi,
at the end of the day what is the amount of paint (basecoat, topcoat, clearcoat) you need for our cars (with and w/o hardtop) and how many coats for each layer are recommended?
...WRe

[johnk]

I am most likely going whith once coat of sealer, three base coats and four clears. I'm not going for high shine, just enough to allow me to buff when needed down the road.

A gallon of the base coat was estimated by the supplier and I would guess that is sufficient. It thins out to 6 quarts with the activator.  I don't know about the clear yet though. I will wait to see what the supplier recommends. I don't want to run out while spraying but I would hate to spend an extra $400 for a second gallom of clear only to end up needing a quart of it.

[WRe]

Thanks John!

[johnk]

Checked witht the Glasurit paint supplier that appeared very knowledgable. He suggested 5 quarts of base coat to be safe and to make sure I have some left over for repairs later. He also tipped me off that I shouldn't spray more than three layers of clear at a time as it won't cure properly inside. Said if I was planning on using four coats of clear (which he thought made sense for my purpose), I should let the car sit after spraying the third coat for 24 hours, lighlty wet sand it, and then spray my final coat(s). High end finishers recomment this as well to make sure the final coats are smoother and less dust showing through the final coats.

[wwheeler]

He is correct about the clear. When I said four coats, that was assuming not all at the same time. There are many nuances to painting and too many to list. But yes, you can not just pile it on all at once. You also have to be very careful with the wait time in between coats and the temperature of the reducer you use. Like I said, many, many things to consider.

I also agree about the 5 quarts and that should be enough with some leftover. Get it mixed all at the same time.

[johnk]

Thanks Wallace

[Pinder]

1 Gallon is enough for 4 goats.

[johnk]

1 Gallon is enough for 4 goats.

For the clear coat, base coat or either? I don't have a good guess for the clear coat yet. I plan on four coats of clear on the body, but probably only two on the engine compartment. Not sure if any clear is needed on the wheel wells to protect the thin base coat. I have Matt clear coat left from coating the underside DP40 primer that I could use for that.

thanks Pinder

[wwheeler]

You also have to take into account the ratio of reducers and curatives. PPG Base coat paint ratio is 1 part paint to 1 part reducer. So one gallon of paint makes two sprayable gallons. PPG clear is 4 parts clear, 1 part reducer and 1 part curative. So one gallon clear only makes a gallon and a half of sprayable paint.

Confusing it is and so is painting cars.

[johnk]

Agreed. I am relying on the supplier to
Advise how much I need. Most seem kmowlegable but a few others I’ve worked with don’t seem so.

I’m just going to start with a gallon of clear. Not a big deal as I’m going to stop and sand between the 3rd and fourth coat anyways with atleast 24 hours in between.

[wayne R]

Johnk
Just a few other tips that may help with your paint job,i know you are saying 4 coats of clear,
but believe me if you are fairly good with the gun three is fine,and ill tell you why,the suggestion of
three then a forth the next day fine cut before is not required-,the secret to a good long lasting clear coat
is the bonding of the clear to the base coat,it is  critical ,time  between each  coat say at  74 degrees should be
about 10 to 20 minutes,this alloys the clear to bond to the last coat and it will last for years.
Same with your base coat color ,
The thinners used for the day say at 74 degrees is critical for the  smoothness, laying, drying ,and finish.
If you apply the base and clear in good way, you will only  remove about 1 coat of clear in the blocking and finish.
Photos of 2 of my classics i painted and were US national first in class, both 2 base coats and 3 clear, Sherwyn Williams paint
when i lived in Sacramento. The 65 Riviera was painted in 4 hours finished, and the paint is now 18 years old.Plus many other classics.

[johnk]

Thanks Wayne,
Is that a 54' Skylark or a Roadmaster? Gorgeous cars!

[wayne R]

Hi Johnk
Yes  1953 Buick Skylark, was imperial blue number 546 from approx 1600 built.
a car i should never have sold went to PA 1995.
The other 1965 Buick Riviera is still here in Australia, this colour is called silver cloud
a very nice silver that is used alot by classic car guys,1963 to 1965.
Has fine metallic in it,named silver cloud after Harley Earl sighted a  silver cloud Rolls Royce
in London in early 1961.
Good luck with your Mercedes , it will be great.

[johnk]

I couldn't tell that it was a 53 from the front. The 53 Skylarks are one of the most beatiful american cars ever built, specially from the rear! The 65 Riv is still a cool car.

So talk about past regrets, I went to buy a 56 continental Mark II in 1975 for 1,800. The seller told me i should by his 1954 300 MB cabriolet instead for 4,500. I had my heart set on the Mrk II and passed on the 300.  I didnt really have the 4,500 either, but the 300 is worth 20 times now what the Mark is.

[Pinder]

I used single stage paint (the gloss is in the color) and painted the car with that I had some left over. IT mixes 4:1 with hardner. It was enough to do 4 coats on entire car including engine bay and under hood, wheel wells.  For clear coat it would probably be similar (1 gallon).