Author Topic: What about a ZIL?  (Read 6513 times)

GGR

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What about a ZIL?
« on: July 17, 2018, 13:48:28 »
Given that our little cars may soon turn into national security threats, I started looking into more compatible exotic models. The latest developments on the international scene led me to look into cars from the cold, and I must say some of them look quite good, like this ZIL of the 50s:

 

Or what about this Volga convertible:



They even have some "re-imagined" cars like we have on the West Coast. I really like this GAZ Hot Road:



They also have Ladas, but I guess that being of Italian origin, they may be a bit too EU connoted :



The latest state limousine looks really good, though one can note some strong British influence. I guess its "friend or foe" status will depend on how the Brexit turns out:



I heard this Aurus is longer than the US Presidential Beast. So who knows, we may soon see a fleet of them at the White House. It may even be a world security priority, as the car needs to be large enough for our stable genius not to sit on the world's biggest nuclear button by accident.

Hopefully, a ferry line will open soon between Vladivostok and Anchorage to celebrate this new friendship, and so that we can import all these marvels. Canada's weak leadership may let us drive through without too many problems.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 19:25:18 by GGR »

mdsalemi

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2018, 13:51:35 »
For some reason, GGR, none of the photos you supplied came through.

However, speaking of ZIL, friends of mine were posted to Moscow a few years ago, working for GM. They are certified car nuts and collectors. They were on the lookout for some ZIL limos and related, but most of those interesting cars were exceedingly expensive IF you could find them. Finding them was the hard part. They had at least two years of looking and nothing worthy came up.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
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GGR

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2018, 14:04:44 »
Just sorted out the photos. I had copied the wrong links. I guess it is the emotion of seeing all the world's issues being so masterfully sorted out.

Pawel66

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2018, 15:58:00 »
I thinks heads cool down when you start driving those interestingly looking cars...
Pawel

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GGR

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2018, 16:02:57 »
I thinks heads cool down when you start driving those interestingly looking cars...

That's good news. One more reason to equip the White House with the latest Russian technology.

mdsalemi

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2018, 20:38:35 »
Uncertain whether the Ford came in a 4-door convertible like the Zil shown, but there sure is a resemblance between the Ford Custom 300 and Fairlane 500s of the late 1950s with that ZIL. At that time the Russians were copying everything, so it's not surprising.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

Pawel66

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2018, 21:30:02 »
Michael, of course!

It is a known story here! A lot of Russian cars from 40ies and 50ies were rip-offs of American cars! What was changed was the parts that their industry could not copy (too advanced) or nobody would be able to service (like a local blacksmith in Northern Syberia) or those that could not stand the usage conditions.

It started from agreement between the USSR and Ford before the war (Ford A) as the SU had to import some technology from somewhere. Then there was Ford B and then they did not bother with licence agreements and took whatever they wanted from Ford or GM (US or Europe).

Then in 60ies and 70ies their agreements with Fiat were decent licence agreements again (Fiat 124 - Lada).
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
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66andBlue

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Re: What about a Moskvich?
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2025, 03:24:50 »
Hi Pawel.
Two weeks ago while visiting Zittau (Żytawa) I noticed this Russian-made car, a Moskvich (I hope I got the cyrillic letters transcribed correctly).

Was this a Russian design, or copy of a Western car?
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Pawel66

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2025, 18:42:52 »
I think this is its second generation, 402.

The first Moskvich (400) was a copy of pre-war Opel Kadett. For this one, 402, I am reading they purchased Fiat 1100, Lancia Aurelia, Simca Aronde, Citroën 2CV, Hillman Minx, Ford Consul, Javelin Jovett and Ford Taunus. Of course not to copy, but for inspiration.

I am reading that the for the first two years 402 still had the pre-war engine, taken from Opel.

So definitely a fruit of Russian automotive engineering.  ;)
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

mda

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2025, 04:54:29 »

mdsalemi

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2025, 20:19:42 »
...I am reading they purchased Fiat 1100, Lancia Aurelia, Simca Aronde, Citroën 2CV, Hillman Minx, Ford Consul, Javelin Jovett and Ford Taunus. Of course not to copy, but for inspiration.

A few years back during the press days of the North American International Auto Show, Mercedes Benz had introduced the latest perhaps final edition of the SL series, and had an unfinished body only, selectively cut away to show all the metal joinery techniques. There was sheet metal along with castings, machinings and forgings all put together with welding, spot welding, screws, rivets and even chemical bonding. A masterful real world example you could see and touch...

...and see and touch they did! A cadre of "press people" (engineers in disguise from a certain large Asian country) were all over this thing...until they took it away for the second day.

Certain places simply have no shame in copying and reverse engineering anything to achieve their goals.
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

Paul99

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2025, 15:29:26 »
The Moskvich looks like a copy of a UK car from the 50's.  Hillman Huskey.

Pawel66

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2025, 17:07:33 »
I have read they bought Hillman Minx for inspiration. Was Huskey an estate version of Minx?
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
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W121 190SL
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Paul99

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2025, 09:23:28 »
yes, same car just estate version.

Ozone

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2025, 14:34:58 »
The Moskvitch was based on an Opel, iirc.  Maybe the Olympia.

Driving a Lada or a Volga in the US is very entertaining, lots of looks/honks. People from the former USSR and orbiting countries will stop  to talk to you.

This one was restored in Russia, I then had to do some upgrades after it came to the US.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1967-gaz-m21-volga/

mdsalemi

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2025, 23:50:03 »
That is certainly a beauty, actually quite surprising when I opened the photo. I wasn’t expecting that.

Under normal circumstances, three words I don’t ever want to hear are “restored in Russia” but this gem has a beauty and elegance about it. Well done; I hope you can source enough parts to keep it running forever!
Michael Salemi
Davidson, North Carolina (Charlotte Area) USA
1969 280SL (USA-Spec)
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
2023 Ford Maverick Lariat Hybrid "Area 51"
2023 Ford Escape Hybrid
2024 Ford Mustang Mach Ex PEV

66andBlue

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2025, 04:40:48 »
I have read they bought Hillman Minx for inspiration. Was Huskey an estate version of Minx?
Looking at photos of the Minx on the Web it sure looks like the 4-door Moskvitch is a close "relative".
The Huskey has only two doors
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

Ozone

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Re: What about a ZIL?
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2025, 23:21:41 »
That is certainly a beauty, actually quite surprising when I opened the photo. I wasn’t expecting that.

Under normal circumstances, three words I don’t ever want to hear are “restored in Russia” but this gem has a beauty and elegance about it. Well done; I hope you can source enough parts to keep it running forever!

I was the seller in that auction. I was able to source a cyl head after the old one dropped a seat. Soviet machining tolerances are measured an eyeball at best.

 

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