Author Topic: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!  (Read 761 times)

Matt_H

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Iw was an inheritance and I am getting different answers on what year it is. I have the data card (believe its a V2) from MB classic but looking at the explanation on the Pagoda SL Group page for version 2 doesn't help (https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/DataCards#DataCardVersion2) as it looks like the explanation was copied from the version 1 above it - the numbers in the explanation to not match the picture sample for V2...i.e it says the first digit of "3" represents order was placed, but there is no "3" in the v2 sample :(

On my data card the box "e" (Auftrags-Nr.) has 72213256

I have been told from my uncle it was a '69
MB Classic is saying '68 (maybe '69 based on a March '68 build date)
MB Service is saying '71 and produced a documentation with a 1/1/71 delivery date (which looks suspicious)

Can anyone help me out as I would like to know what I have here and I have been investigating for weeks. I can provide any other numbers from the data card if that helps.

Benz Dr.

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2018, 06:39:13 »
What are the last six numbers of the VIN on your car? I assume you have a 280SL.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

Pawel66

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2018, 08:58:36 »
Matt, have you tried to locate your car by VIN number here?

https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/USModelYear
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

Matt_H

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2018, 14:12:46 »
Last six of VIN (chassis number) are 001711 and yes 280sl
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 14:16:47 by Matt_H »

mrfatboy

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2018, 14:20:56 »
Assuming that you have a 280sl it looks like your car was built in March 1968.  Under certain circumstances it may have been registered as a 69.
1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
Signal Red
4 Speed

Matt_H

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2018, 14:25:15 »
Yes that is sort of what I just deduced from that chart....so do I refer to this vehicle as a "68 280sl" or 69 then? :)

thanks by the way!

Matt_H

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2018, 14:40:22 »
This is the document I got from the service folks and it states '71 for warranty and retail...but could this be the "registration year" then?

mrfatboy

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2018, 14:45:11 »
That depends on who you talk to 😜 I'm in the same boat (see my signature below). I bought mine as a 69 and found out much later it was built in Aug 68 

I notice others on this forum refer to build date and register date separately.  I would also like to know what the latest school of thought is.

When you are ordering parts it's definitely a 68😜
1969 280sl (Aug 1968 build)
Signal Red
4 Speed

Matt_H

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2018, 15:11:39 »
Ah so this is somewhat of a common issue :)

Yes if anyone can provide some insight into what the proper way to describe my car is that would be appreciated. At the end of the day it doesn't "really" matter but I would like to really understand and respectfully be aware of what I inherited. Thanks!

49er

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 15:33:43 »
My car was ordered in May 1968, built in July, delivered on Sept 18 and registered as a ‘69 model here in CA. MBUSA’s model year began somewhere during the the 1st part of September and mine was the first SL sold as a ‘69 at my dealer. The car has no headrests so it looks just like a ‘68 but all paperwork refers to it as a ‘69. Pretty sure if your car was was built in March it would have been sold and registered before September.
John
1969 280SL 113044 10 003820
Un Restored, All Original, including the paint
Original Owner, Purchased September 18, 1968
4 speed manual, PS. 76411 miles
6479 miles since awoken from her 20+ yr "nap" in 2010

Pawel66

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 17:34:08 »
I think this also depends, here in Europe, on legislations. Most legislations will put the first registration year as the year of your car.

For my Pagoda: I have the first registration date (a field in the documents that is required) 01.01.1970. My car was produced March 1970. The reason for the date 01.01.1970 was because the first registration date was not known. So the rule is that they write in Jan 1 of the build year. You may have a variant of similar case if someone put in 01.01.1971 - some detail might have been missing, so they used some rule there.

I have a W463 that was built in 1991 as per the data card, but first registration (in Austria) was in 1993. For various purposes it is either 1991 or 1993 car. The data card is stating order number, but I cannot figure out if the car was made for stock or for customer order. In the registration document I have 1993, as Polish authorities followed the Austrian documents that stated first registration in 1993.

I would say for the classic car that the year of the car is the year when it was built. If you have a new car and you are selling it, then, as the car started being used when it was registered, I would say the date of the first registration (and this is what you have in most of the announcements - the first registration date). Also for guarantee - it starts from the registartion/sale to customer (also dealer), not manufacturing date.

For parts, as said already - it is the VIN and the build year.
Pawel

280SL 1970 automatic 180G Silver
W128 220SE
W121 190SL
G-class

smackYYZ

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2018, 18:11:38 »
As with most vehicles manufacturers ( at least here in North America ) , they introduce the model year in the previous year, usually in September. So to have the inventory available for the dealers they have to start production in mid July to early August.

This practice stems from Summer holidays being the best time to do factory retooling/change overs. If you look you will see all the major auto companies have their plants closing starting the last week of June to sometime into early July. Typically they close for 2 weeks but this can be longer due to major retooling or lower demand.

My 230SL was produced around Oct 26 / 1965 and delivered Nov 22 / 1965 but is registered as a '66 based on this common practice.

So based on this I'd be calling your 280SL a '68 since it was produced in March of 68, so the 68 production year wasn't over yet, at least based on North American practices.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 18:16:19 by smackYYZ »
Mike aka SmackYYZ

1966 230SL Auto
2008 BMW 323i M6 my DD
2014 Corvette Z51 Coupe M7
2015 MB C300

Matt_H

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2018, 18:20:43 »
Yeah since it was built in March of '68 my gut it telling me a should represent this particular vehicle as a '68 for insurance, parts, etc....

In regards to the '71 date from the service records the concept another poster stated about them not knowing so defaulting to some logic and putting 1/1/71 makes sense to me...and seriously it was almost 50 years ago so hard to find anyone that can explain why the servicing dealership did something now.

I think the build date from the data card, and the VIN 001711 make it as clear as its going to get and I feel comfortable deferring to build date vs. a first registration date.

Thank you all!!  :) :) :)

smackYYZ

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2018, 21:13:26 »
Matt,

Do you know the history at all? Do you know who the original selling dealer was?

On your data card, in box 49 is it a 1 ? If so it's a US version car, and if it was delivered in Canada it should have had the deliver date stamped in the lower left box marked Uebernahmetag on the card. I've only seen a few Canadian data cards but all of the ones I've seen have the deliver date stamped on it.

If it's not a Canadian delivered car, the '71 date could have come when it was imported into the country and considered the in service date as far as MB Canada / US records.

Just some thoughts.

Mike
Mike aka SmackYYZ

1966 230SL Auto
2008 BMW 323i M6 my DD
2014 Corvette Z51 Coupe M7
2015 MB C300

Matt_H

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2018, 03:21:12 »
Matt,

Do you know the history at all? Do you know who the original selling dealer was?

On your data card, in box 49 is it a 1 ? If so it's a US version car, and if it was delivered in Canada it should have had the deliver date stamped in the lower left box marked Uebernahmetag on the card. I've only seen a few Canadian data cards but all of the ones I've seen have the deliver date stamped on it.

If it's not a Canadian delivered car, the '71 date could have come when it was imported into the country and considered the in service date as far as MB Canada / US records.

Just some thoughts.

Mike

My uncle owned the car in the US (I imported it to Canada recently), but he was the 2nd owner. There is no # in box 1 of the data card.

I do have a smudged entry in box 49 and it almost looks like a second attempt at the stamp covering the Bosch in box 13 and is from "Marz 1968"

smackYYZ

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Re: Trying to figure out year of my w113 pagoda...PLEASE HELP!
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2018, 15:20:31 »
My uncle owned the car in the US (I imported it to Canada recently), but he was the 2nd owner. There is no # in box 1 of the data card.

I do have a smudged entry in box 49 and it almost looks like a second attempt at the stamp covering the Bosch in box 13 and is from "Marz 1968"

Yes a lot of the data cards, the stamp for delivery is in or over Box 13. 

Looking at your order number 72213256 we can figure out:
- order was placed in 67
- Dealer who ordered was 221 in Koeln

And since Marz is German for March, it was delivered in Germany and possibly there is a preceding digit of the exact date. So my best guess is it's originally a German car that was later imported to the US, possibly in '71? or it was a North American customer who took German delivery using the European Delivery Program.

Not sure of the exact differences of a US vs EU car for that year but others here can help you figure that one out.
Mike aka SmackYYZ

1966 230SL Auto
2008 BMW 323i M6 my DD
2014 Corvette Z51 Coupe M7
2015 MB C300