Re: 1967 250SL Automatic Restoration

[likes2laff]

Thanks everyone.

Ok.

So major confession. I left a 250SL sitting out under a tree at my weekend place for 5 years without a hood, trunk lid, soft top cover or top, valve cover...and it gets worse. Had begun restoring it about 10 years ago...even had the engine rebuilt and dropped back in...but moved, took a new job, got busy...you know how life is. I'm too embarrassed to talk about the engine internals which caused me to not know whether to laugh or cry.

I probably should have buried it in the yard but shame has motivated me to restore "Joan" to her original glory with a bit of the plastic surgery that technology permits. I keep telling myself it's a noble penance of sorts.

I bookmarked the Motoring Investments and Flikr links many months ago and find them very helpful...though not so helpful for parts you can't really see...like half shafts and spindles. Even with the poor condition of my front hubs I could see they were painted black...but underneath seemed to be an iridescent plating but I guess it could just be the machining...same with the ends of the axle. That had occurred to me but the fair condition seemed to indicate more than what limited access to air and a long gone oily coating would explain. I thought maybe the front hub had been cadmium plated and then painted. And that maybe the spindle and axle ends might have chromium nitrided or something similar.

Here's something to chuckle about...it took me days to get all of the acorns and other yard nuts out of the body by using a rotisserie and makeshift suction devices (there's only so much high pressure air and water can flush out).
 
 

[Garry]

Hi David,

I think you need to start a new thread and put up some start pictures of your car, Whilst it gave me a bit of a chuckle, I am glad you are going to finally get to restore it.  It makes a great story for a future Pagoda World...

Maybe even just split off your post to a new heading and thread or I can do it if you want?


Garry
Membership Administrator
On Hollidays in Central Australia

[Jonny B]

To quote Garry - "It makes a great story for a future Pagoda World..."

I will most assuredly second that!

Jon (PWorld editor)

[likes2laff]

Look what I discovered...bummer. And a few other things no doubt related to this. This is the passenger side...would appreciate a good lead on a replacement.

[Shvegel]

I have one. It had a really tiny dent in the upper side but I just straightened it out. PM me your address and I will send it gratis. 

For what it is worth I used a 2 part epoxy primer from Southern Urethanes on all my suspension parts and the stuff is really tough.  The owner of the company saw people were ising it for exposed semigloss on cars and reformulated it with UV protection as well.  Expensive but a gallon will do it all including gas tank.

[likes2laff]

Thank you so much. Will do.

I also need to find another one of these...I say "one of these" because I have seen many names for it. I'll call it the "emergency brake mounting plate". There is what looks like an MB part number on both but when I Google by that, I get nada. The number on the good one is 108 423 01 06.

[likes2laff]

I plan to have all the suspension/black parts sandblasted. The place that does that offers hitting them with an epoxy primer which I am seriously considering although I have not checked yet into what they exactly they use. I finally got all of the nests, chewed paper and some unmentionables out from inside the front sub-frame. Yuck.

[likes2laff]

Garry, Shvegel & The Lews...thanks for your input.

Garry, you offered to split/start a new thread about my 1967 250SL restoration. I'd like to take you up on your offer.

Thanks,
David Lees

[Garry]

David,

I have split the post from the point you made your confession and slightly adjusted the heading.  I suggest you post your progress and lots of photos as you go from this point. Everyone loves photos and they often are also very helpful for others to see items.

Good luck with the work,

Keep the squirrels at bay.

Garry

[likes2laff]

Hi all,

I'm restoring my 1967 250SL. It's about midway through the numbers I believe. For reference (from the "Pink Card" - Version 2):

VIN: 113043 12 003133
Engine: 129982-12-001535
Transmission #: 51534
Steering Box #: 85250
Rear Axle: 003304
Left/Right Front Axles: 297
Body/Hard Top Color: 460 (Dark Red Brown or Midnight Brown)
Upholstery: 216 (Cognac Leather - 1505, Brown Carpet - 6454)
It has the option code for Beige Soft Top (730)

I'm actually doing a bit of a "RestoMod". It will look very original but will have a variety of performance upgrades that I hope will only be obvious to the well trained eye. All of the exposed aluminum parts have been restored and all of the "black" parts (with a few exceptions) are now black again. The parts to be cadmium plated are still not ready to go.

I will post some pics now. The body and the aluminum body parts have been sent to be stripped of all paint, rust, etc. using a supposedly non-destructive full immersion process. The process is different for ferrous and aluminum parts. They should be done in a week or so.

But now I have a BIG problem. I went to schedule the delivery arrangements with the company I lined up to do the e-coating of the bare, ferrous body and the rep I dealt with told me they are not taking any new customers! This company had already given me a price to build the required frame and perform the e-coating and told me just to let them know with 2 days advanced notice exactly when I would be there - I was floored. The company is named Lippert Components in Elkhart Indiana, not far from South Bend.

Anyway, now I am in desperate need of a place that can do this work since all the paint will have been removed even in the seams, box sections, etc. Suggestions of places that do this sort of work are welcomed.

[Shvegel]

Look up Electro Prime in Toledo .  They do all the frames for Ford Pickup trucks and also do special projects as well.   Their vat is tall and very narrow so the car will need to go in sideways.  Any vats big enough to dip a body will be like that as it cuts down on the evaporation of the coating while the vat is idle.  I would highly suggest building an "L" shaped bracket that is tight to the bottom of the car and has a provision for picking it up with a forklift from the bottom and also a ring so they can crane lift it from the side otherwise they will just sling it with chains across the fenders. 

I had my car stripped by Redi Coat in Romulus and they sent it to Electroprime for E-coat.  Somewhere along the line it ended up acquiring a series of tiny dents in the brand new quarter panels from the chain slings.  Hence the recommendation for the bracket.  E-coat is an industrial process and they are used to having racks and fixtures to hold the parts.  If you don't supply a rack they will make whatever they have work.

[likes2laff]

Shvegel, Thank you for the information and so sorry about the slow reply...I have been quite busy with work related activities.

[likes2laff]

Here are some pics: first is getting acorns out of body! The rest are getting the body ready for the stripper. I think it is hard to see just how bad the body is.

[likes2laff]

Oops, still trying to get the hang of this...

[doitwright]

Were you planning to dip prime before body work? I had mine in the same state as yours and media blasted in February. This process of course revealed far more sins than we originally could anticipate. Although not nearly as terrible as many have uncovered, there was some metal work that was needed. Media blaster sprayed an epoxy primer on everything. Made it to the body shop in March. After metal work, they sprayed a polyester (thick body filler like) primer, then after sanding came a gray primer. The shop then typically waits a month to let the primer "shrink". In my case it was almost 2 months after primer before they painted the car (just last week).

So far, it has been a very good experience with the shop doing the work. Since it was their 1st SL, It has taken many visits following a detailed graphic description of what I was looking to accomplish.

Good luck as you move forward.

[likes2laff]

Doitwright,

I had the whole body dipped by American Metal Cleaning because I thought the body was bad enough that I needed to do that to uncover and remove all the damage. I am looking for a shop to do the body work. There is a LOT that needs to be done including replacing panels, trunk, etc.

Do you like your guys? Can you PM me with costs...it would be really helpful...as I have no idea what to expect in many regards.

[likes2laff]

I've found somebody to e-coat the body so I am excited about that.

I have a lot of questions about how certain parts of the car looked when new. For instance, when my 250SL rolled out of the factory, what did the wiper motor look like in terms of exterior appearance. It is also not clear to me how the exterior of the power steering pump was finished or the Power Steering gear. The exterior of the gear looks like it may have been a combination of black paint, cadmium and aluminum.

Any information would be appreciated.

[doitwright]

The source I use to find answers to such questions (aside from this forum), is MotoringInvestments.com. Brian has meticulously photographed numerous cars that he has restored and sold. I know of no better single source of photographic information on the web.

[likes2laff]

Thanks.

I go to that site all the time. Sometimes it is hard to see certain components at all (starter, power steering gear, power steering pump, etc. ) let alone figure out how they are finished in the photos. Speaking not just of Motoring Investments but similar sources of information...in some cases, it turns out the original factory finish or appearance (at least compared to my car) was not the same. While the restorations when done appear complete, the pics don't seem to focus much on the actual mechanical components. On these sites,  I've yet to see the inside of a differential,  a disassembled driveshaft, power steering pump/gear, wipe assembly/motor, heater mechanism/exchanger, rear axle (being restored), window mechanism (being restored), AC Restoration/Refurbishment.

For instance, I would love to see the actual restoration of a door panel including the hardboard, padding, rivets, etc...usually it's presented as here it is unfinished and voila, here is it finished...it could be a perfect restoration underneath there or just some cardboard and epoxy.

I know a lot of people don't care, but it seems like most of the parts I get these days do not look like the originals...even the rebuilt/re-manufactured parts have been finished differently and often with material substitutions. I realize almost no one will ever know that on my car the aluminum pinion housing on the starter housing should be cast iron, that the pulley on the front of the alternator should be aluminum & back-finned not steel and fan like, and on and on. To me, change enough of these things and the integrity feels lost...meanwhile, I'm doing a resto-mod so label me a big hypocrite!

I figured as long as I'm restoring the car, not just trying to keep it running, I should try to find out what was original. Yu might wonder why I don't just use my original parts. It is certainly easy enough to figure out the original material (assuming my part is original) but the car was in such deplorable shape having sat unprotected for many years (without hood, trunk lid, roof, etc.) most things had no finish to speak of or has een given a blast of black paint from a shaker can.

I find Pagoda SL Group to be a very good source of information which is why I come here.

Still it get frustrating...it can be challenging to find a definitive answer to a seemingly simple question like whether the wiper motor was zinc galvanized, zinc plated (White/Yellow), cadmium plated (White/Yellow) from the factory in 1967.

[Jonny B]

I think there are some things that are not as consistent as we would like them to be. Or we would need access to the deep and dark recesses of the MB archives, i.e. were the four screws that hold down the hood/bonnet lock and release painted or not??

When I was working with Hans S (mbzse) and Achim to put together the list of changes for the 280 SL model years (using Engelen's book as the source) we ran into some inconsistencies.

Also the sales brochures in the day are not always a good source, as they were pre-production photos

[neelyrc]

....Or we would need access to the deep and dark recesses of the MB archives, i.e. were the four screws that hold down the hood/bonnet lock and release painted or not??...

We may never get to the deep dark recesses of the archives to resolve all the questions, however, we did get somewhat of a handle on this one at PUB.  Gernold and I looked at this on my car.  With nearly 49 years of exposure the screws are not now completely covered with paint but there is definitely factory paint on a couple of them.  If you zoom in on the picture below you can also see a paint run starting at the forward edge of the two rear screws and going forward.  One possible explanation of this could be that a small amount of paint was "dobbed" on the screws after they (and the latch) were installed.

[likes2laff]

Thanks. I enjoyed that bit of info about the latch...I will get that correct now...painted. Almost sad though, because now that I have refinished my part...it is quite beautiful and would look great exposed...if you like that kind of thing like I do. Although, now that I think about it...painting that is a bit odd because it would certainly chip and would result in a paint on paint surface.

Any info on the wiper motor? The power steering gear? The power steering pump?

[zak]

Wow some project. Good luck and enjoy the journey.
My 1967 250 SL is # 003019 and made a few days before yours- both early " late models".
 I admire all you guys with this level of expertise.

Now I also have to check my hood latch for paint...

jz

[likes2laff]

Haha.

I've had a couple W113's and I'm in the middle of a "resto-mod" of this 250SL so it will take quite a while. In fact, I've been online lately looking for another 250SL (a driver) to enjoy while the work continues on the other one. Never tried anything this ambitious before.

While I have no interest in winning at car shows, if I can maintain the originality of appearance, except where I choose to diverge, I'd like to try to do so.

Ignition lock question: in the second ignition lock pic below, does anyone know what the recessed pin is for...is it used for lubrication/greasing?

Thanks

[likes2laff]

Does anyone know if these 3 tubes should be black or yellow? I am about to send a lot of parts off to be plated and I want to include these if they shouldn't be black.

Thanks!