Author Topic: Bosch playing unfair?  (Read 9656 times)

georgem

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2016, 23:08:54 »
Thanks Michael,

Thanks for the info - which goes a little way in my understanding in why diesel prices are always higher than petrol -over here at least.

cheers
George McDonald
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wwheeler

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2016, 16:56:56 »
It didn't used to be higher and was lower before ULSD here in the US. That process to remove more sulphur apparently is expensive. I am sure other countries have different formulations and taxes that change the price structure and may not be comparable. 
Wallace Wheeler
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66andBlue

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Bye bye Diesel passenger cars?
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2016, 18:46:49 »
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-renault-diesel-exclusive-idUSKCN11C1MF
VW now wonders "whether it still makes sense to invest a lot of money in further developing diesel", Chief Executive Matthias Mueller said in June.
Alfred
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mdsalemi

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2016, 22:35:45 »
It didn't use to be higher...

That depends on geography here in the USA, I think. Diesel has always been more costly than gasoline (87 octane) as far back as I can remember in Michigan, with only a few times when they were comparable. In addition, there have been some really wild swings in diesel cost up and gasoline stable which would scare the heck out of anyone here investing in a diesel car. During the winters of 2013/14 and 2014/15, which were quite cold here and in the northeast, the "polar vortex" kept those diesel prices really high. I think it's a gamble only a few are willing to take--those that have other things on their mind besides just the cost of the fuel.
Michael Salemi
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Garry

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2016, 00:09:13 »
Michael,

Your comments on the fluctuation in Diesel is interesting as in Australia it has been just the reverse.  Diesel has always been a fairly stable price, running around $1.15 - $1.25 a litre for some years and petrol has fluctuated from $1.00 - $1.60 and the variation can be up to $0.20 change in a single day.  They are always publishing the buy/dont buy petrol prices.
Garry Marks
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mdsalemi

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2016, 16:36:48 »
Garry,

There's a seasonality to it, too. Some years ago #2 fuel oil (which is heating oil, essentially diesel w/o the additives) regularly was cheaper in the summer and more costly in the winter. I had a business in Vermont, USA that used a LOT of heating oil; it was a large building. We pre-bought the fuel in July from the local dealer at the summer prices (usually 2,000 gallons or more) and then used it all year until the next summer. We locked in our price, and he either locked in his price or actually bought the fuel and stored it for us.

Today the fluctuations in pricing are somewhat random. You see what I call excuses for price increases: insurgency in Nigeria, prices up. OPEC meeting, prices up. "Changeover" to summer blend + the inevitable midwest refinery fire or pipeline burst, prices up. Shortage of additives, prices up. My neighbors own an oil distribution business, supplying gas stations and marinas and industrial facilities with gasoline and diesel. They used to store hundreds of thousands of gallons of both in their tanks--a week or more--but the fluctuations have turned the business into a casino operation, so no more than a couple of days supply is stored now. Even with this, they often get caught with gasoline that is retailing for less than they paid wholesale for, because of price fluctuations.

Michigan is also a bit different I think, with the disparity between diesel and gasoline. In many other states it isn't as drastic.
Michael Salemi
Novi, (Detroit Area) Michigan USA
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66andBlue

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2016, 22:09:13 »
After the detour on Diesel refinement procedures and yields it is time to go back to the original topic and Tyler's question asking whether Bosch is playing unfair.
Could Bosch be "Company A" ??
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-idUSKCN11F234
Alfred
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mdsalemi

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2016, 23:10:34 »
Michael Salemi
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66andBlue

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2016, 05:54:39 »
Hi Michael,
I had seen the WSJ article (and others) before and indeed it is more to the point. However, the points listed were those expressed by the tort lawyers and I am always a bit hesitant accepting those as the whole truth and nothing but ...
Now we have a defendant who pleated guilty. Plus he "and others, including employees of an entity referred to as "Company A," designed software that would activate the emission controls of an engine undergoing a government test and deactivate them afterward, according to the indictment."
That makes it a lot more likely.
Alfred
1964 230SL manual 4-speed 568H signal red
1966 230SL automatic 334G light blue (sold)
1968 280SL automatic (now 904G midnight blue)

mdsalemi

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2016, 17:01:47 »
I agree with you Alfred. Just keep in mind that it isn't the "tort lawyers" per se that come to these conclusions, it is the tort lawyers AFTER they have hired sophisticated investigators the likes that prosecutors cannot afford and do not have, and investigators that would make the CIA, MI6 and the Mossad quite proud. These investigators dig deep.

Lawyers rarely, if ever, ask a question that they don't already know the answer to. I suggest that there's far more than a "grain of truth" to the results of the investigation of some kind of collaboration or prior knowledge of the CEOs of VW and, er, "Company A". We just haven't been presented with the entire story yet. Maybe we never will.

As to the guilty plea of this James Liang, now the floodgates are open!
Michael Salemi
Novi, (Detroit Area) Michigan USA
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wwheeler

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2016, 19:29:46 »
I'm just glad I am selling my car back and I am done with this fiasco and can move on. That VW diesel sports wagon was a great car however. Hopefully the BMW 2.0 L diesel engine won't have these issues. It does have the AD-Blue system BTW.
Wallace Wheeler
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wwheeler

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2017, 03:53:35 »
And probably the last post for this thread. Bosch now has its own settlement and its own website. https://www.boschvwsettlement.com/en

I guess they got busted as well. Since I have sold my VW, I am automatically going to receive an additional $350.00 from Bosch.

The End.
Wallace Wheeler
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66andBlue

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2017, 04:06:18 »
The End?  :o
The $350 will go right into your current project and spawn more joy!  ;D
Alfred
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wwheeler

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2017, 04:10:10 »
That's beautiful.  :'(
Wallace Wheeler
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Tyler S.

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2017, 04:35:44 »
$350 will buy you half of a nice Bosch headlight door or 3 injectors ::)
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wwheeler

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2017, 21:42:43 »
Check arrived today from Bosch! Time to go shopping!
Wallace Wheeler
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UJJ

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2017, 13:25:43 »
Check $350.00 arrived yesterday, however, since it was my wives car I probably see none of it.
Urban
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wwheeler

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2017, 16:24:14 »
What kind of VW did you have? Mine was a 2012 Sports wagon TDI. Nice car but my 2016 BMW 328 D Sport wagon is a whole lot more fun. More expensive too.
Wallace Wheeler
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UJJ

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2017, 13:57:56 »
2012 Jetta TDI
Urban Janssen
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mdsalemi

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2017, 20:29:33 »
Meanwhile, back at the Takata Ranch, I see they've chosen bankruptcy for their misguided deeds. Don't think there will be much money for those maligned there.  :'(
Michael Salemi
Novi, (Detroit Area) Michigan USA
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wwheeler

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2017, 17:02:38 »
Interesting. Our company buys a rubber coated fabric (not related to the air bags) from them. I wonder if that will affect our supply of that material?

Urban, same car as mine. It would appear that producing a diesel in the tight US emissions envelope just isn't a sure thing. Even light truck diesels are having issues.   
Wallace Wheeler
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Tyler S.

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Re: Bosch playing unfair?
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2017, 02:08:53 »
I think part of what is so screwed up about the whole thing is CARB and The EPA were relying on manufacturers data and testing as well. Setting the emissions standards partly on what info was given to them. "Yes we can meet those emissions goals". Those goals were obtained by cheating so therefore the entire standard is flawed. As well as future emissions goals. The EPA and CARB are going to have to come up with some realistic numbers if Diesels are to progress in the States.
1968 (67) 250sl. 4 speed manual. DB180 Silver Grey Metallic.
1936 Ford Pickup. Flathead V8. Creme on tan interior.
1989 Volkswagen T3 Westfailia Campmobile. Dove Grey (blue)