Author Topic: Engine detailing  (Read 7680 times)

stickandrudderman

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Engine detailing
« on: May 27, 2016, 17:51:39 »

Rolf-Dieter

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2016, 20:27:56 »
Great photos Colin, thanks for sharing.

Love the last shot ... Saw something similar once.
DD 2011 SL 63 AMG and my 69 Pagoda 280 SL

stickandrudderman

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2016, 16:41:25 »
It's been finished by my team whilst I'm on holiday and apparently the customer is delighted BUT
I can see from the photos (that I didn't take!) that are a couple of minor things I would like to be different so when I get back I'll ask the customer to bring it back so I can address them.
Can you see what they are?

Benz Dr.

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2016, 18:36:57 »
They can't be very big items. I looked at every pic and didn't see much but standing in front of the car would give a different perspective. I thought that maybe the wiper motor could look better and had not been touched yet but overall it looks very nice to me. It's what I would expect on a high end car.
1966 230SL 5 speed, LSD, header pipes, 300SE distributor, ported, polished and balanced, AKA  ''The Red Rocket ''
Dan Caron's SL Barn

cfm65@me.com

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2016, 18:47:50 »
Hi Stick,
What a lovely job.
I am NOT criticising, just playing along.
Most of what I can see looks fantastic
Stickers missing,
VIN plate missing, photo 9
Copper heater pipes coming through the firewall not polished, #9
Fire wall soundproofing halves not lining up properly where they join, #9
Sound proofing not finished off properly where it goes around the wiper motor#9
Fire wall paint behind the cylinder head seems damaged#9
Red paint on frame next to the coil has bubbles, #9
Coil and little round gadget attached, needs cleaning up, also on picture #9
Cooling reservoir slightly dented.
WELL DONE,
Regards
Chris
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top

Jonny B

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2016, 23:48:08 »
Can't help but join in, and yes it does look very nice!

For a 280 SL no covers on the shock towers. These were discontinued late in the 250 SL run.
Jonny B
1967 250 SL Auto, DB 568
1970 280 SL Auto, DB 904

Shvegel

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2016, 01:33:02 »
AC Idle solenoid should be yellow cad?
Clamps for power steering reservoir and coolant tank should be silver(type 1 cad).

stickandrudderman

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2016, 09:49:24 »
All interesting comments!
Some of you have pointed out things that do concern me, whereas there are things that don't.
I'm not obsessed with "factory correct" and I've never met anyone who is so whilst I'm aware that some parts that are yellow shouldn't be and others that aren't should, I am generally happy with the choice of finishes.
The idle speed solenoid should have been yellow and this was an oversight.
Now, we all know that yellow cad (the original finish) is NLA so we use yellow passivate instead and if you're going to be really fussy that makes it all wrong!
One thing I would like to do in an ideal world is use original style hose clamps but it's such a tiny detail that none of my customers would expect that I've never bothered tracking them down.
The paint finish was originally a "from the gun dry" finish which some people believe is a satin finish (you know who you are;) but we have gone for a high gloss finish because aesthetics is what this job is about, not originality.
Oh, and I certainly would NOT polish the heater pipes, that would just be plain vulgar! They should be painted though.
Keep the scrutiny coming!
There are other issues which haven't been spotted so far..........!

cfm65@me.com

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2016, 20:46:45 »
Hi Stick,
I don't mean to polish all the heater pipes, only the stubs of the heater box which stick through the firewall. However, on second thoughts, I agree they should be painted.
I have used the special original hose clamps on 190SL restorations in the past. I was not aware they were also used on the Pagodas as well.
Regards
Chris
28 Ford Model A Pickup
29 Chevy Phaeton
67 E Type FHC
67 250SL 5 speed
83 911SC
2015 VW T5 California Pop Top

Shvegel

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2016, 18:14:02 »
Colin,
How do you clean your aluminum?  It looks untouched.  Really nice.

stickandrudderman

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2016, 23:53:06 »
Thanks! All of the aluminium is vapour blasted.

hkollan

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2016, 16:34:29 »
The Earth/ground points seem to be painted over, nice touch when they are preserved or restored.

Hans
Hans K, Cuenca, Spain
1968 280 SL 387 Blue met., parchment leather
1971 280 SL 462 Beige met, Brown leather
1968 280 SL 180 Silver, Red leather
1964 300 SE Lang 040 Black w/Red leather
1985 500 SL 735 Astral Silver w/Black leather
1987 560 SEC 199 Black met., Black leather

paul_GB

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2016, 21:59:32 »
Excellent job! Where did you get the black painted steel coolant pipe from? - it looks new and heaps better than the one I am installing at the moment.
Paul
1964 230SL - Dark Blue

stickandrudderman

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2016, 23:48:48 »
The "bubbles" under the paint at the top of the transmission tunnel are original underseal as applied by the factory. We deliberately did not remove it.
No paint was applied to the ground points; we install a sacrificial bolt and washer into those as a mask during painting. We also preserve the unpainted VIN in the chassis rail.
The black steel pipes have been powder coated, as have all the other black components.

hkollan

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2016, 09:49:51 »
No paint was applied to the ground points; we install a sacrificial bolt and washer into those as a mask during painting. We also preserve the unpainted VIN in the chassis rail.

That all sounds good, but the three points visible in the pre engine install pictures (out of potentially seven) I was looking for all seemed to have been painted over. The unpainted lead covered ground points are around 30mm in diameter and
would normally be well visible on a red car if preserved as originally. I stamp out some 30mm masking tape patches
to mask off the ground points as the sacrificial screw and washer approach won't work for all the ground points.

Regards,

Hans
Hans K, Cuenca, Spain
1968 280 SL 387 Blue met., parchment leather
1971 280 SL 462 Beige met, Brown leather
1968 280 SL 180 Silver, Red leather
1964 300 SE Lang 040 Black w/Red leather
1985 500 SL 735 Astral Silver w/Black leather
1987 560 SEC 199 Black met., Black leather

stickandrudderman

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2016, 19:58:56 »
Trust me, there is no paint on any of the earth points!

49er

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2016, 21:37:19 »
Looks pretty darn nice to me but as long as we are playing this game... On both my 250SL and 280SL, the coolant return hose went over the breather pipe and was secured with a large zip tie. Pretty picky, I know.

John

PS Good luck to you folks this coming Thursday, one way or another.
1969 280SL 003820
Un Restored, All Original, including the paint
Original Owner, Purchased September 18, 1968
4 speed manual, PS. 76837 miles
6900 miles since awoken from her 20+ yr "nap" in 2010

Iconic

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2016, 13:33:59 »
Oh, and I certainly would NOT polish the heater pipes, that would just be plain vulgar! They should be painted though.
Keep the scrutiny coming!
There are other issues which haven't been spotted so far..........!
Stick,
If I understand correctly, you are talking about he two pipes that come out of the firewall that carry coolant to and from the heater core. If so, I'm sure they are supposed to look like brass between the grommet and the hose that is connected to them. Maybe not polished, but not painted either. I'm getting this from pictures of original cars (49er, thanks) and manuals and other old pictures.
Are we talking about the same thing?
Mark
1970 280 SL Automatic, USA version, Grey-Blue (906G/906G), Blue leather (245)
1968 SS396 Camaro Convertible (owned since 1977 -- my first car :D)
1984 Porsche Euro Carrera coupe, LSD, SlateBlueMet/Blue
1998 BMW M-Rdstr Estoril Blue
1970 280 SL Automatic, Anthracite Grey-173G, Red Interior-132 - sold

stickandrudderman

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2016, 13:51:21 »
Yes Mark we are talking about the same thing.
I have no idea what they would have looked like when new, but either black or neutral brass is fine with me.
Still some other details to be spotted!

Jonny B

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2016, 17:36:28 »
Had a bit of time this morning, so took another look.

Yes, the CSV should be gold cad, but I understand that doing that is problematic for an electric device.
The clamps around the coolant tank should be silver, not yellow
No clamps on the breather pipe where it connects at the air inlet, only clamps on the coolant line
Would this car have had the 100degree switch on the top of the thermostat housing?
The nut on the top of the PS reservoir should be a wing nut
The heat shield clamps should also be silver, not yellow (BTW are the small circlips in place??)
I just checked the heater core lines that poke through the grommets on the firewall, on my cars, these pipes are painted black.

But let me add, as others have, the above is my US $ 0.03.
The job looks great.
Jonny B
1967 250 SL Auto, DB 568
1970 280 SL Auto, DB 904

mbpaul

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2016, 18:32:41 »
Just happened that I was replacing the hoses to the heater this morning.  I have had my 1966 230SL since new and nothing has been disturbed in this area other than to replace these hoses every now and then.  I have attached a picture of both sides.  Pipes out of the heater look painted to me.

Now for the cold start valve.  It could have changed at a later time but mine is silver as you can see in the photo (despite all the grime on it).

I have never shown the car in anything other than a local club event and doubt that I ever will so as long as it looks nice, that is OK with me.  Just wanted others who do care to see what my car has.

mbzse

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Re: Engine detailing heater pipes finish
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2016, 20:07:48 »
Quote from: Iconic
.../..the two pipes that come out of the firewall that carry coolant to and from the heater core.../...not painted either. I'm getting this from pictures.../...
Mark, your experience differs from mine. I have seen black paint on these pipes on many cars; also see official M-B picture (attached).
So I'm with Jonny B and "mbpaul" on this detail.
/Hans S
« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 20:12:11 by mbzse »
/Hans S

Iconic

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2016, 02:16:36 »
Hmmmm.
Thanks Hans, mbpaul, and Jonny,
Maybe I am ..... wrong on this one.
I'll look back on some of my pictures and see if I can find and post what I am talking about.
By the way Hans, is that a restored car or a old picture? It looks too good to be an old picture.
Thanks for your comments guys.
Oh, and by the way Stick, these comments are just to learn from, I only wish my car(s) looked as good under the hood as the one your shop did.
1970 280 SL Automatic, USA version, Grey-Blue (906G/906G), Blue leather (245)
1968 SS396 Camaro Convertible (owned since 1977 -- my first car :D)
1984 Porsche Euro Carrera coupe, LSD, SlateBlueMet/Blue
1998 BMW M-Rdstr Estoril Blue
1970 280 SL Automatic, Anthracite Grey-173G, Red Interior-132 - sold

mbzse

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Re: Engine detailing master picture
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2016, 07:11:47 »
Quote from: Iconic
.../...is that an .../.. old picture? It looks too good to be an old picture.
Thanks for your comments guys
Mark, this is a most useful original engine compartment picture, a guide for restoration so to say.
It is published in the sales brochure for the early 280SL /8.
You can find it on Gerster's brochure website, for instance
http://oudemercedesbrochures.nl/Engels_index.html
/Hans S
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 07:16:33 by mbzse »
/Hans S

stickandrudderman

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Re: Engine detailing
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2016, 11:07:40 »
Notice the lack of an engine data sticker on the rocker cover.